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Dhimmi: Arabic's origins etc.

Reader comment on item: Poll: Israel Victory Gains Strength
in response to reader comment: Motke: The origin of today's spoken Arabic

Submitted by Motke (Israel), Jun 21, 2019 at 12:24

>
> I suspect that Luxenberg is very correct that
> [...]
> Oh Kees Versteegh? I do not believe him
> [...]
> You need to read Wansbrough's views on the
> origin of Classical Arabic

I Looked up all the authors/books you mentioned. I'm planning to read them. (I also wrote down, somewhere, the book you mentioned while discussing خليفة.)

>
> It is as per Peters "text with no context"

(Who is "Peters"?)

> You might be interested in checking this article [...]
> "On Some Insights Gained through an Arabic
> Reading of Epigraphic Tadmuraean Aramaic" by
> Albert H Naccahe [...][...] Ibn Warraq's book

I'll check it out.

(Speaking of studies (Daniel Pipes, I write this to you), I see in the youtube channel of Bar-ilan University lectures (in Hebrew only) about Islam/Arabs. I.e., 5 months ago there was a peak in lectures about al-Qardawi.)

>
> In Syriac/Aramaic the word Nahem or ܢܚܡ means
> comfort/raise (the dead or resurrection)
>
> Here is a link to the word in Syriac and Aramaic
> http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=17693&language=id
>
> So my question is: Is the Hebrew equivalent Nahem?

No. N-ح-M in Hebrew means only "comfort" (and, in the bible, also "regret"; and seldom "avenge").

It does not mean "raise [the dead]", nor any other similar meaning. I double checked this.

So, we've finally found a word not shared by the two languages :-)

(In Hebrew, "resurrection [of the dead]" is /tحiyya/.)

> There is an Arabic root نحم but [...]
> https://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D9%86%D8%AD%D9%85/

(Interestingly, it says "صوت المريض من صدره كالأنين". I.e., to moan out of grief. This might be the linkage to Hebrew/Aramaic's "comfort" (or "regret").)

> > "[he is] standing" = /عomed/ (cf. Arabic's عمود)
> > "resurrection" (more common) = /tحiyya/ (cf. Arabic's تَحِيَّة)
>
‎> [عمود] means column and it does not mean standing [...]
‎> تحية in Arabic means greetings not resurrection [...]

(Sure. "cf" doesn't mean "equal". تحية is the masdar of حَيّا (wazn II), also meaning "to keep alive" (besides "to greet"). Whether people actually use this word in this meaning is irrelevant.)

>
> remember that Muhammad and his God believe that
> the Jews and Christians corrupted their books

BTW, it's possible that early Muslims didn't mean to say that the text itself was corrupted, but that is was misinterpreted:

https://www.judaism-islam.com/islam-teaches-torah-is-corrupted-tahrif-but-what-does-that-mean/

> > But what about "donkey" and "wine"? These words
> > are pronounced about the same, so what is the
> > Talmud complaining about?
>
> Well both words have similar ductus but the short
> vowels make all the difference

Yes, that's the common explanation, which appears in the pages I linked to. But I'm not very satisfied with this explanation. Note the rhetoric:

"Do you ask for
‎ܚܡܪ to ride or ܚܡܪ to drink?
‎ܥܡܪ to wear or ܐܝܡܪ to slaughter?"

Using parallelism was common back then. It makes sense to assume that the type of problem in the 2nd pair (not distinguishing ܥ from ܐ) repeats in the 1st pair (not distinguishing ܚ from another consonant, maybe خ). OTOH, it also makes sense to assume the "common explanation" (not distinguishing between vowels, as you explained yourself), so we'll never know...

> Speaking of the Talmud, the Islamic historical
> tradition and al-mufasereen have never been able
> to explain how did TALMUD Sanhedrin 4:5 is in the Qur'an

It's a pity the Quran didn't quote the whole text,[1] as we might have then seen fewer wars in the world.[2]

(BTW, the Quran doesn't quite plagiarize, as it introduces the [botched] quote with "كتبنا على بني يسرائيل".)

[1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Translation:Mishnah/Seder_Nezikin/Tractate_Sanhedrin/Chapter_4/5

[2] "that no man shall say to his fellow 'my father is greater than your father' [...] not [one person] is like his fellow."

Submitting....

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