69 million page views

Both Mr. Pipes and Mr. Auster are right to an extent

Reader comment on item: [The Search for Moderate Islam:] A Reply to Lawrence Auster

Submitted by Quennel Gale (United States), Jan 31, 2005 at 16:53

Hi,

I think both are right on each of their perspective points. I do agree with Mr. Auster that Radical Islam for all practical purposes is Islam. When I take a look at the Sunnah/Hadith and the Quran it is impossible not to reach this conclusion:

Narrated Abu Burda:

Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "HE WAS A JEW AND BECAME A MUSLIM AND THEN REVERTED BACK TO JUDAISM." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down TILL HE HAS BEEN KILLED. THIS IS THE JUDGMENT OF ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLE (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'" Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58

Take a look at some of Muhammad's last words before his death concerning the Jews:

Narrated 'Aisha and 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:

When the last moment of the life of Allah's Apostle came he started putting his 'Khamisa' on his face and when he felt hot and short of breath he took it off his face and said, "MAY ALLAH CURSE THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS for they built the places of worship at the graves of their Prophets." The Prophet was warning (Muslims) of what those had done. (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 427)

While in the Quran we find this:

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. THEY IMITATE THE SAYING OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE OF OLD. ALLAH (HIMSELF) FIGHTETH AGAINST THEM (Arabic: qaatalahumu llahu anna yu'fakoona-- Literally-May Allah KILL THEM) . HOW PERVERSE ARE THEY! S. 9:30


... Now Mr. Pipes is right from a historical perspective in that many Muslims are moderate and aren't violent. This is something I totally agree with. There was a point in time where Islamic civilization was the envy of the world, but like Mr. Pipes said, this was due to the subjects of the empire itself. In a way both are correct though I would always say, "you judge a religion by its scripture and authentic sources, apostles early companions, and not its modern day followers".
Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (104) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Moderate Muslim and an ardent Zionist - Razak 'Abd al-Qader [6982 words]KeilaOct 16, 2020 13:54261000
On Mr. Pipes reply to Mr. Auster [431 words]John NosserFeb 24, 2010 10:29169350
1Lawrence Auster's analysis is right on the mark!! [139 words]JaladhiMar 31, 2010 14:33169350
A IS FOR ALLAH BY YUSUF ISLAM (CAT STEVENS) THE BRITISH AYATOLLAH SINGER THE SEARCH FOR MODERATE ISLAM OR...... [137 words]TIRDAD GHARIBJul 14, 2008 14:13135071
NO DIALOGUE SHOULD BE BETWEEN TEHRAN IRAN AND WASHINGTON DC USA, [121 words]TIRDAD GHARIBJul 20, 2008 09:30135071
Is islamism really different from islam? [178 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
François Eiffel/FFLNov 1, 2007 07:41112819
1The Muslims Need a Scapegoat [878 words]Ibrahim Abdul Mu'minMay 25, 2005 11:2122409
1Ibrahim Abdul Mumin [34 words]P.O.D.Dec 10, 2005 12:0222409
Moderate Islam? [77 words]Clifford IshiiMay 19, 2005 00:2622170
Islam: "Religion of Peace" [28 words]Avraham DavidJan 20, 2006 14:4522170
moderate islam [128 words]satish k kapoorMar 28, 2010 00:1722170
fundamentalism [220 words]Dr Satish K KapoorMar 28, 2010 01:0222170
1There is no moderate Islam or moderate Muslim!!! [260 words]JaladhiMar 29, 2010 10:0922170
Religion of the Book and Culture of the Heart [356 words]Dr Satish K KapoorMar 30, 2010 01:4522170
1Religion of heart is conscience of a human being - and Islam kills it off !!! [228 words]JaladhiApr 5, 2010 10:5022170
May they hear the Inner Voice [277 words]Dr Satish K KapoorApr 5, 2010 21:1822170
1Naive Hope of Satish!!! [592 words]JaladhiApr 8, 2010 17:1522170
slam - when politics enter ... [264 words]Muhammad ArshadMay 3, 2005 06:0721951
1I need more convincing [460 words]Kevin GrahamMar 31, 2005 07:5521263
Moderate Islam: A Pipe Dream! [3744 words]A (Keen) Student of IslamFeb 26, 2005 00:0120530
Moderate Islam: A Pipe Dream! [1235 words]A (Keen) Student of IslamMar 1, 2005 03:3220530
Kudos to comment by "A ( Keen) Student of Islam" [132 words]JaladhiMar 1, 2005 10:2820530
Response to commenter "A (keen) Student of Islam" [147 words]BobMar 26, 2005 17:0320530
Response to Bob's Comment [526 words]A (Keen) Student of IslamApr 3, 2005 15:5020530
A little proselytising for (keen) [118 words]Vic CoffeyMay 18, 2005 10:2220530
A little proselytising for (keen) [287 words]A (Keen) Student of IslamJun 2, 2005 05:0820530
studied in the desert: moderate Islam is Islam [201 words]studied in the middle of the Arabian desertMar 26, 2007 13:0220530
A Reply to Auster [166 words]Lowell ByrdFeb 18, 2005 05:1620423
I have weighed in favor of Lawrence Auster [219 words]David S. JacobFeb 11, 2005 19:3720278
1a thorn in the side of humanity [314 words]richardFeb 4, 2006 23:4020278
moderate submission to Satan? [293 words]Bob BoyntonFeb 9, 2005 17:0020224
Mr. Auster is right [138 words]JaladhiFeb 8, 2005 15:3620185
The nature of Islam [59 words]Gloria StewartFeb 7, 2005 15:2520148
It's not the religion, it's the people who embrace it [130 words]S MacMay 8, 2010 13:3520148
Moderate Islam v Political Islam [264 words]Karim MansoorFeb 7, 2005 10:3820145
Response to commenter Karim Mansoor [86 words]Peter J. HerzFeb 10, 2005 14:4920145
A take at Mr. Auster's response [328 words]Alain Jean-MairetFeb 4, 2005 00:4620099
1Commenter Alain Jean-Mairet is not a civilizationalist [468 words]AndrewFeb 5, 2005 02:0220099
Response to Alain Jean-Mairet [339 words]Lawrence AusterFeb 5, 2005 20:0820099
I do not want to appease. [292 words]Alain Jean-MairetFeb 6, 2005 02:5220099
Alain Jean-Mairet's self-defeating reasoning [191 words]Lawrence AusterFeb 9, 2005 11:4620099
Auster's only half smart reasoning [154 words]Alain Jean-MairetFeb 10, 2005 14:4820099
Prediction = January 2006 [229 words]JAMES A HAUERJan 22, 2006 05:5720099
you will know a tree (pearl) by it's fruits. [26 words]RichardFeb 4, 2006 22:2220099
Well, I'll tellya... [92 words]Stanley LevinFeb 3, 2005 14:5020093
Obscurantist Islam cannot change [229 words]R.K. OhriFeb 3, 2005 11:3720090
Reply to L. Auster strikes me as utterly inconsistent with his usual manner [300 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Phil StanFeb 3, 2005 09:1220084
A most helpful clarification [166 words]Roger WT WilkinsonFeb 2, 2005 23:3620081
False Hope [309 words]JaladhiFeb 1, 2005 11:0520034
I'm not so confident, sorry [303 words]Olivia M.Feb 1, 2005 01:4620024
My reply to Daniel Pipes's reply [1727 words]Lawrence AusterJan 31, 2005 21:4920022
Comments on Auster's reply to Pipes's reply to Auster [597 words]bucephalusFeb 10, 2005 00:2320022
Jews Living in Christendom...Why Would They Want To? [91 words]BlissJul 18, 2006 12:0520022
Both Mr. Pipes and Mr. Auster are right to an extent [582 words]Quennel GaleJan 31, 2005 16:5320017
What is moderate Islam? [1149 words]LKJan 31, 2005 03:1520008
Question for LK [130 words]IPHFeb 5, 2005 15:4420008
Comments on Auster and Pipes Debate [466 words]K IbrahimJan 30, 2005 22:4820002
Lawrence Auster: "The Search for Moderate Islam" [140 words]A former muslimJan 30, 2005 22:3320001
Only one solution to a Peaceful Islam [6 words]Paul RinderleJan 30, 2005 19:2220000
Lawrence Auster, Daniel Pipes and Islamophobia [148 words]Octavio JohansonJan 30, 2005 17:3219998
The french psychoanalytical connection [284 words]Peter van SummerenJan 30, 2005 16:0719996
Fish in water [69 words]Gabriel TokingJan 30, 2005 06:3619989
Pipes vs. Auster [322 words]Richard BowersJan 30, 2005 00:1319987
Let's face reality, please. [324 words]Jason PappasJan 29, 2005 21:2319983
Lawrence Auster is right [122 words]F.ShawkiJan 29, 2005 20:2419981
Was Mohammed a Jihadi? [187 words]BenjaminJan 29, 2005 19:4019978
Response to Pipes vs. Auster Commentary [128 words]Shari Seaman GoodmanJan 29, 2005 18:5419977
Lawrence Auster's analysis is superficial [201 words]Octavio JohansonJan 29, 2005 18:0919975
Moderate Islam does exist (there are some moderates) [167 words]Steve KleinJan 29, 2005 14:0219973
RESPECT & FEAR [439 words]Marcos BerensteinJan 29, 2005 09:1619969
The 800 pound Gorillia cannot be contained by "Moderate" Islam [1167 words]AndrewJan 29, 2005 06:5419965
Modern vs. Historical Islam [254 words]John Randall PeacherJan 29, 2005 03:5319961
Auster is right [290 words]Caesar M. ArevaloJan 29, 2005 00:1719960
Arbitration [279 words]Alain Jean-MairetJan 31, 2005 00:5819960
Moderate Islam Does Exist [83 words]Mustafa AkyolJan 28, 2005 23:0819959
Response to Mustafa Akyol [211 words]JohnJan 29, 2005 13:3419959
ABU MUSAB AL-ZARQAWI'S LOATHSOME LEGACY [218 words]CITIZENJan 28, 2005 23:0519958
Agree to Disagree [53 words]JohnJan 28, 2005 22:5119957
Moderate Islam is an oxymoron [137 words]Hari IyerJan 28, 2005 22:4719956
1ISLAMIC DEEDS & RHETORIC [343 words]CITIZENJan 28, 2005 20:3319954
PEACE? [223 words]LES DAVISJan 28, 2005 18:4119952
Pipes vs Auster = Winning vs Losing [119 words]Octavio JohansonJan 28, 2005 18:2419950
What about women in Islam? [287 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Susan ChapmanJan 28, 2005 16:2519948
The Big Question [119 words]Darwin BarrettJan 28, 2005 16:1019947
Parallel with Samuel Huntington's "The Clash of Civilizations" [83 words]Peter ChewJan 28, 2005 14:4119946
The strength of Radical Islam [379 words]Germain LucasJan 28, 2005 13:3919944
Reality [311 words]SJan 28, 2005 13:2319943
Compassion vs Hatred [220 words]JohnJan 28, 2005 12:3919942
Compassion and Hatred? Response to Commenter "John" [233 words]Peter J. HerzJan 31, 2005 21:4319942
Is it feasible? [170 words]JohnFeb 2, 2005 01:2619942
Moderate Islam? [26 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Amy EliezerJan 28, 2005 12:1119939
No such thing as moderate Islam [75 words]Kim SegarJan 28, 2005 11:5219938
Truly Literate Responsive [103 words]Jerrold E. GoldmanJan 28, 2005 11:4419937
Murder is murder [125 words]Paul RindertleJan 28, 2005 11:2619936
Both of You Are Right [210 words]David SmithJan 28, 2005 11:1719935
Keep up the good work, Mr. Pipes [41 words]Harley CahenJan 28, 2005 11:1619934
How about the UN meeting? [150 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Simon CohenJan 28, 2005 10:5819933
A Reply to Lawrence Auster [66 words]MayJan 28, 2005 10:5119931
The Goal [49 words]JosephJan 28, 2005 10:3819930
Deeper knowledge of two "Good Books" leads in different directions [261 words]D PattersonJan 28, 2005 10:3619929
Koranic Basis for Forgiveness? [38 words]Wallace LiechtyJan 30, 2005 23:3719929
D.Patterson's comment & Wallace Liechty's question [729 words]A (Keen) Student of IslamMar 2, 2005 12:1619929
Fecund Islam [211 words]Steven HessJan 28, 2005 10:2219926
Refreshing yes, apologizing for Islam, no! [81 words]Kenneth S. BesigJan 28, 2005 09:4819925

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)