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The growth of a dangerous counter culture?
Reader comment on article: [Theo van Gogh and] "Education By Murder" in Holland

Submitted by Asger Laurids (Netherlands), Nov 18, 2004 at 04:35

According to Mr Illian, a former asylum seeker from Teheran who teaches at the Law faculty of Amsterdam University, the ritual slaughter of Theo van Gogh is a sign that the Dutch government underestimated Islamic fundamentalism. Mr. Ilian told a Network-reporter that the killing is unheard of in Dutch history, Protestants and Catholics might have quarreled vehemently about their theological differences in the 19th century, but they never killed eachother.

Critics of European governments maintain that a islamic parallel society has grown in Holland, Germany, Belgium and France. This is due to the laxity of moderate parties, who often sought electoral support and tolerated the spreading of fundamentalist teachings.
Holland has been proud of its record of religious tolerance, the republic was a safehaven for Portugese and Spanish Jews, the so-called 'Maranen', and French Philosophers were able to publish their blasphemous works in the Netherlands.

There is however a darker side to this tolerance. In the first two years of the Second World War, the Dutch economy grew rapidly, German occupation brought financial relief. And about 95 percent of the Jewish population did not return, as they were, with the help of many Dutch officials, transported to the Camps in Poland and Germany.

There has grown an ethnic division in the Netherlands due to failing immigration-policies. The Dutch government has allowed 'gezinshereniging'—a continued process of matchmaking in Turkey and Marocco, virtually changing the demographic nature of the Netherlands and many parts of Europe. Fundamentalists see this, as they do in the Middle East, a strategy that works their way, this development will enhance their cause—they think.

Dutch parties, such as the CDA (the Christian democratic party), the PvdA (Social-democrats) and leftwing parties as Groen-Links and the Socialst party, led by a former Maoist, Mr. Jan Marijnissen, have been ardent supporters of the multi-cultural society. The main philosophy is a cultural relativism; cultures may exist harmoniously, no culture is superior so any man may follow his own suit..
This ideal of equality is a legacy from the Enlightenment, it has entrenched itself in the American constitution. And now Europe experiences a new wave of religious facism, as Joseph Joffe wrote in the german Newspaper Die Zeit. The islamo-fascists hope to undermine culture with 'our relativism'—they have built fundamentalist strongholds within free countries, such as the King Fahd academy in the German Rhineland, an institution financed by the Saudi Royals, a school in which the killing of unbelievers is taught.
The German 'innenminister' of the Rhineland has declined to take action as the German government does fear that the Saudis might retaliate and close all German schools in Saudi-Arabia.

Another problem is the division along ethnic lines -- Turks and Moroccans go their own mosques which are sometimes used as tools of Turkish or Moroccan policies in the Netherlands. Turkish imams are appointed by the Turkish state.

Turkish and Moroccan immigrants have sought their place in Dutch society; some have sought public office successfully. Mr. Aboutalib, an Amsterdam councillor of Moroccan origin is a vociferous critic of fundamentalists. Others do not engage in the heated debate and wait or question the attitude of Dutch.

Years and years Dutch who questioned immigration policies were decreed to be fascists and Nazis or right-wing, such as the murdered Mr. Pim Fortuyn, a former social-democrat who was an admirer of Joop den Uyl, an influential Dutch politician, and the Prime Minister in the seventies, who allegedly discovered the political talent of Mr.Fortuyn.

Another critic of Islam, Mrs. A.Hirshi Ali is also a former social-democrat. Before becoming an MP she was employed by the social democratic party's thinktank. She is living in a secret location as a result of the death threats and the terrorists' fatwah. Just as Mrs. Bousakla, a councillor in Antwerp, of Moroccan origin who received death threats as she is a critic of Islam. And today Dutch news reported that their will be no immediate sequel to the film Shou, shouf habibi, a successful film about Dutch Moroccans, as the filmmakers received signals that there would come violent reactions to mockery. The director declared: he did not want a knife in his belly, like Theo van Gogh.

In the meantime Dutch parties are quarreling about the blasphemy law.

Last Saturday the Dutch justice minister Hein Donner declared he wanted to revitalise old legislation concerning blasphemy, a sign many took as giving into the terrorists. The prime minister visited a mosque in Eindhoven and the pupils of the torched Bedirschool in Uden were invited to the Hague, to visit the Parliament. Many Dutch feel that the Prime Minister is out of tune with reality and should demand harsher measures and a curbing of islamists and stricter immigration policies.

The Government has failed to act upon the situation. It allowed Mr. Kaplan, the Caliphf from Cologne to transfer his money and organization to the Netherlands.

Some politicians even use fundamentalist idiom in their debates, like Mr. Ali Durmus, a lawyer who is councillor of the Party Leefbaar Den Bosch in the South of the Netherlands, who called his critics crusaders and denied substance to Mrs. Irshad Manji's claims.
Or the moderate Mr. Deniz Ozankali, who is a social democratic councillor and chairman of the local mosque, where - according to Dutch intelligence circles - the Grey Wolves and Milli Görus are extremely active.

On the 24the of january 2002 Yoram Stein wrote in the newspaper Trouw: 'He, mr. Haci, is a man that preaches integration and tolerance. Within his own mosque-organization there is fundementalistic and anti-semite propaganda. Just how credible is the director of Milli Görüs, Haci Karacaer? Almost everyone who knows him, is charmed by his qualities as bridge-builder between muslims and nonmuslims. But is he telling the truth about the goals of his ideological movement that he represents? A portrait 'A splendid candidate'. This was how Haci Karacaer was beeing described by Jos de Beus, chairman of the list of candidates for the PvdA (socialist party) in Amsterdam. Karacaer was 'heaven send' for the party, that was looking desperately for a suitable Turkish representative for the capital. The modern director of the North-Netherlands' (moderate) branch of the mosque-umbrella organization Milli Görüs seemed to be the perfect man for the job. Yet his name was not put on the list for the local council elections. Within the PvdA there was a growing concern that this man was not the 'perfect candidate'. Were his tolerant opinions also shared by his supporters, or was this a onemanshow? Afraid of the possible consequences the PvdA would face when associating themselves with the as fundamentalistic known MG, Karacaer disappered from the list. Indeed, according to freelance journalist Mehmet Ülger, Karacaer is not being honest about MG. "If you hear him talk, you think: this man has got good ideas. But he never tells you what is happening in the mosque. He does not tell you what people think and say there. But that is important, not the nice sugar-coated talk of a spokesman." According to Ülger, Karacaer is playing along with the MG-game.' (Trouw)

Mr. Haci is supported by many moderates, even boardmembers of the coc, the emancipation movement of homosexuals who deny any wrongdoing and see mr. Haci as an enlightened example of religious orthodoxy and tolerance.
Is this tolerance not one-sided?

Jews are threatened in Amsterdam and Antwerp; the minister of a Protestant church in Utrecht which was torched earlier, shortly after 9/11, last Sunday complained that he had not had one single phonecall, not from the local authorities, nor from the prime minister or a parliamentarian about the attack. Nothing. As Mr. Illian commented in the newspaper; 15 million people are scared.

Yesterday the self-styled preacher prime minister Balkenende lectured to the European Parliament advocating: multi-culturalism..
Tomorrow, on the 18th of november 2004, the new reported heavy losses for his party in the communal by-elections in the eastern provinces..





Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited, before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments.

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Title By Date
Bully, bully [87 words]dfwhite19438Jul 2, 2008 22:19
[Theo van Gogh and] "Education By Murder" in Holland [290 words]nnabsalFeb 20, 2008 08:09
Voltaire is spinning in his grave [47 words]LeeMar 6, 2006 06:20
The failure of the crusades [197 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDSep 30, 2006 15:49
Over the last 10 years I have seen a lot of first hand experience: [752 words]BrianJun 7, 2008 01:50
Pride........ [88 words]antonFeb 14, 2006 17:00
comment [252 words]karimDec 22, 2005 17:09
The curse on mankind [152 words]JamesNov 28, 2005 10:09
Fake Advertising [149 words]ashtrayDec 29, 2005 05:55
In order to stop true evil, you must understand how it travels from one generation to another [43 words]sidney s. davissonSep 6, 2006 15:54
stop arguing and face the facts.... [91 words]azaNov 7, 2005 07:34
sorry aza you can't win [55 words]TJFeb 9, 2006 17:18
an open heart is required [188 words]azaNov 7, 2005 07:07
My Dutch View [252 words]Niek BoschOct 22, 2005 03:42
the so called intellectuals provided their story [509 words]WAZJun 17, 2006 15:34
What about 9:123: Believers, make war on the infidels... ? [69 words]George NubieSep 10, 2006 10:43
Is the problem Islam? [157 words]SnehaJul 27, 2005 06:58
Against the Odds [198 words]Grace CannanJul 10, 2005 20:08
We are at a crossroad... [544 words]Bruno GissaraJul 8, 2005 07:43
What I learned from Theo [328 words]NadiaJul 6, 2005 23:08
This was a man of hate and ugliness [67 words]A.G.Jun 30, 2005 16:39
Hitler's philosophy alive and well - it is multiculturalism [139 words]paul nessheadJun 23, 2005 22:11
A different point -- [338 words]Roleke van AntwerpenJun 1, 2005 08:17
I agree [8 words]JanApr 20, 2005 00:41
'Arabs are taught hatred of Jews with mothers' milk.'.. journo Brigitte Gabriel [2127 words]Adriana StuijtApr 16, 2005 07:15
Gabriel well breast fed! [26 words]abdallah tohmeDec 31, 2006 14:27
Muslim hate crimes and hostility to the West [286 words]Info Tech GuyApr 7, 2005 23:20
Racism [123 words]SamMar 30, 2005 01:02
racist reply [264 words]laurenceAug 17, 2005 10:12
Just not enough [52 words]Vishal VMar 26, 2005 04:17
Only one question [68 words]A.Melih YÜKSELMar 18, 2005 10:02
Another Western society as raw as always judgement [206 words]M. EmraniFeb 3, 2005 19:48
Anyone here read, "EURABIA: The Euro-Arab Axis" by Bat Ye'or [79 words]GWKJan 11, 2005 10:45
How Real is the Threat? [701 words]MMBDec 21, 2004 19:26
CAIR unresponsive to Theo van Gogh query [271 words]R. LutzDec 14, 2004 15:23
Bouyeri picture not illegally published in the Netherlands [92 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverDec 6, 2004 08:24
Tales from wonderful Copenhagen [559 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverDec 6, 2004 08:06
Theo Van Gogh: A Great Martyr [96 words]Funk Soul BruhvaDec 5, 2004 23:05
There is no moderate Islam [83 words]Richard (Toronto, Canada)Dec 3, 2004 21:09
Crusades-21st Century style! [44 words]JoeFeb 11, 2006 15:02
WAKE UP! [232 words]Joe HuntersixpackjesusfreakFeb 15, 2006 00:52
stop the haterd [45 words]Ahmed AdenFeb 20, 2006 10:01
it's either them or us [51 words]dan pNov 21, 2006 09:40
Have any of you read the Koran? [162 words]James CarbonaroNov 29, 2006 13:21
Western leadership [117 words]Don Van SickleDec 3, 2004 12:06
Lawsuit against van Gogh film [88 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverDec 2, 2004 06:35
Pressrelease by Ayaan Hirshi Ali, the dutch liberal parliamentarian who co-authored the controversial Film Submission [119 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverNov 30, 2004 03:26
Islam, religion of peace [191 words]EricoAug 7, 2008 12:29
Don't criticize Islam, or you will get killed [76 words]Ashoorina JacobNov 29, 2004 01:01
Islamists [14 words]FredFeb 23, 2006 10:01
questions-- [57 words]rafFeb 26, 2006 21:04
See for yourself - View Theo's film [47 words]Tos CaredtonameNov 28, 2004 18:50
More at stake, Turkish Islamists call Armenian genocide a myth. [544 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverNov 28, 2004 13:31
In Defense of the Mafia [217 words]MerryNov 28, 2004 12:58
Double Standards [77 words]Ayesha IsmailNov 27, 2004 09:54
Reply to Ayesha Ismail (Double Standards) [222 words]Funk Soul BruhvaDec 9, 2004 22:09
Reallly Old Post I Found [459 words]AshtrayDec 20, 2005 05:02
Compare Holland to India [61 words]S.C.PandaNov 25, 2004 04:46
That doesn't work for Spain [66 words]Ana PérezNov 23, 2004 09:36
Canada must wake up too [434 words]Barry KumarNov 23, 2004 01:23
The Religion of Peace [289 words]Arlinda DeAngelisNov 22, 2004 21:28
Van Gogh murder [205 words]Lubicz, StephaneNov 21, 2004 15:56
They told me so... . [125 words]Elvira WongNov 21, 2004 13:50
Economic policy can help solve the Islamist problem [99 words]BottomfishNov 21, 2004 09:31
Trojan Horse [194 words]Hari IyerNov 20, 2004 22:56
Time to wake up [214 words]Sarah CiprianoNov 20, 2004 21:35
Action against Islamism [44 words]Thomas QuittnerNov 20, 2004 15:48
All in the Name of Multiculturalism [91 words]PatNov 20, 2004 12:37
What is in the Koran? [78 words]Rowena DavidsonNov 20, 2004 07:35
* Important precedents for the van Gogh murder [216 words]YorumcuNov 19, 2004 12:55
What Dutch Response? [55 words]Jay StarkmanNov 19, 2004 10:42
Marc Lepine aka Gabil Gabri Canada's coverup [44 words]HarryNov 18, 2004 23:39
the canadian gun registry [35 words]roland verretFeb 26, 2008 17:12
Intimidation [46 words]WilliamNov 18, 2004 22:44
⇒ The growth of a dangerous counter culture? [1296 words]Asger LauridsNov 18, 2004 04:35
Play with Fire, and you will get burned [19 words]Darius MahdaviNov 17, 2004 23:39
Reply to Darius [378 words]P. MoeNov 22, 2004 13:00
Reply to Reply to Darius [22 words]Rob ArsenaultNov 24, 2004 12:55
Battle of Holland [151 words]J MelloryNov 17, 2004 20:42
Stop the Insanity [61 words]Joe CassaroNov 17, 2004 17:03
Thank you [44 words]CarolynNov 17, 2004 16:44
A Wake-Up Call [58 words]Bob RowleyNov 17, 2004 14:34
Dangerous [33 words]DebbieNov 17, 2004 13:20
Moderating Moslems [225 words]Sir Daniel M.J. TobinNov 17, 2004 12:37
WORLD WAR 1V - The Battle of Holland. [283 words]Mel GardenNov 17, 2004 12:22
Not entirely unprecedented [89 words]Martin HendersonNov 17, 2004 11:01
Like Mafia, like only one slice of the pizza... [137 words]RPaineNov 17, 2004 10:09
Re: Mafia [17 words]Shivkumar SinghNov 17, 2004 08:35
Liberals in Manhattan [57 words]Leif KnutsenNov 17, 2004 08:10
To Mr. Knutsen [316 words]David WolfNov 17, 2004 14:53
End Islamist takeover [58 words]Emanuel KafesNov 17, 2004 08:05
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From a European [177 words]Octavio JohansonNov 17, 2004 04:17
Europeans are part of the problem [242 words]Flik AmochNov 17, 2004 01:27
Lookout! Olde Europe might issue a condemnation! [58 words]NealNov 17, 2004 00:20
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Combating Islamofacism [43 words]Clifford IshiiApr 1, 2006 21:15
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Right on! [41 words]William GrauNov 16, 2004 22:13
Islamic Sensitivity Training -- a required course at Ohio State [300 words]Joseph MartinNov 16, 2004 21:54
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Education by Murder [16 words]TedNov 16, 2004 16:55
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Theo van Gogh and Margaret Hassan [209 words]Romesh ChanderNov 16, 2004 16:09
Identity of the Victim [203 words]Robert SniderNov 16, 2004 15:28
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Kill a plumber and it's nothing... [28 words]Howard VeitNov 16, 2004 12:34
Mafia-like intimidation does not work in the modern era. [59 words]A. KafirNov 16, 2004 12:20

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