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Voting Does Not Make a Democracy -- Gov't by Sharia Law Can Never Be a Democracy -- Worse than Most Dictatorships

Reader comment on item: Bush's Middle East Hopes [and His Failures]
in response to reader comment: Support

Submitted by Sofa Sogood (United States), Jan 17, 2008 at 21:54

"Can anyone name a country in Middle East which US supports and it is not dictatorial regime."

My question is: Can anyone name a country in the Middle East which is not a dictatorial regime? Theocracy - Dictatorship -- same, same. Islamist Theocracy worse.

(In Pakistan, the US will support whoever it is believed will protect the Atomic weapons from falling into the hands of Radical Islamists or Radical Islamist Terrorists. The US is very unsure of him, but supports Musharraf because there is no choice.)

No government based on Sharia Law is a democracy -- even if people vote for it. Majority rule does not equal democracy -- Majority rule often is nothing more than mob rule. Democracy is based on democratic principles -- and then only after that, majority rule. There can be no democracy which is a Theocracy. It's a contradiction. So, the United States has only the choice between two devils -- and dictatorships are not necessarily worse than theocracies -- with their totalitarian rule, religious police, cutting off hands and feet, honor killings, and dhimmi laws, etc. etc.

Israel is not a Theocracy. It was founded to establish a home for people of Jewish origins as a place of self-rule and shelter from 2000 years of, most often, violent discrimination. While there is respect for the religion within the laws, the laws of Israel are not based on the Jewish religion -- they are based on democratic ideals. It is, though, a Jewish State for Jewish people -- just as democratic Japan is a Japanese State for Japanese people.

The Israel-Palestine conflict IS a century old. The Zionist movement began in the mid-1800's, when the Ottoman Empire granted permission for European Jews to join Jews who had always lived in the region (who, incidentally had almost always maintained a majority in Jerusalem) to purchase land (mostly sand) for agricultural development and to reside there. Even in those early days, Arabs from time to time, raided their settlements and killed them.

Conflicts escalated after the end of WW1 (1918) and the demise of the Ottoman Empire when there were massive population displacements all over the world. As part of world-wide re-settlement arrangements, Jews were granted a place for a Homeland by the Leage of Nations (which was later supplanted by the United Nations). No one knew that there would be a Holocaust which would displace many more people. Although, at that time, the population of the area was relatively small, and the numbers of Jews re-settling there was small, the Mufti of Jerusalem objected to any Jews having any self-determinative rule and aroused the Arabs to intensified violence against them. (Check out Mufti-Nazi connections -- way prior to l947.) There were many raids and pogroms murdering the Jews in that period. Jews living on Kibbutzim (communal farms) were raided and murdered. Jews who had lived in Hebron for thousands of years were driven out in 1929 by the violence, for instance.

The real, real trouble started in 1922, when the British decided to divide the Palestinian Mandate (look up British Mandate and how Mandates were formed after WW1). The lands which are now both Israel and Jordan were all one "Palestine -- or British Mandate." This entire area was to be a Homeland for the Jews. NOT that only Jews could live there. The original idea was that where Jews were or became a majority, there would be Jewish self-rule, and where Arabs were or became a majority, there would be Arab self-rule. No one would be required to move from where they were living.

There was so much uninhabited land -- desert mostly -- and not that many people involved, both Arabs and Jews. But the British, because of political rivalries with the French, decided that 70% of that Mandate be given to Prince Abdullah as (Trans) Jordan. No Jew was allowed to live there -- that rule is in Jordan's original foundation documents -- and still exists to this day.

The remaining 30% was to be "Partitioned" and divided between the Jews and the Arabs -- The Jewish portion only where Jews were already a majority or where the land was uninhabited and desert-like. The Arabs were to be given a much better portion (most of the arrable land), but the Jews accepted it and the Arabs didn't. They didn't want any Jews having any self-rule on what was not anybody's country other than a Turkish "villayet" but which, nevertheless, they themselves considered "Arab/Moslem" land.

In 1948 when the Jews proclaimed a State, it was on the tiny area allotted to them in the "Partition." The Arabs rejected that, rejected the Partition arrangement, and 5 nations made war on little Israel, claiming they would "drive the Jews into the Sea." The US DID NOT help the Jews in that War. The British aided the Arabs. Nobody thought they would, but the outnumbered Jews won, which was a great humiliation to the Arabs.

The fact that the US didn't take in Jewish refugees from Europe was shameful, but not by any chance the cause of the continuing conflict. That particular responsibility can be placed firmly in the laps of the Arab Nations and Europeans who have kept the Palestinians impoverished, enraged and armed -- (not allowing them citizenship in the very Arab countries in which they now and for 60 years have lived!) solely for the purpose of perpetuating a conflict which could have been resolved many years ago -- for their own selfish and inexcusably vile reasons.

(Keep in mind, after WW1 and WW2, just some of the shifts of population and many millions of refugees, i.e. -- Cyprus and Turkey, India and Pakistan, Germany and Poland.)

Also to note, prior to 1922, there was a signed agreement between the British and Prince Faisal (perhaps the most popular Arab leader), that he would be the leader of "Syria," in Damascus, the ancient seat of the Caliphate. This would have given Faisal great prestige, dignity and power to influence the other Arab nations. Part of this agreement was Faisal's support and approval of a Homeland and self-rule for the Jews in the area of the Palestine Mandate (including what is now both Israel and Jordan). Then the British re-negged on their agreement with Faisal, gave "Syria" to the French, divided the Mandate into what is now Jordan, planned to Partitian what is now Israel, and seated Abdullah as their puppet leader in Jordan. Thus began a great Arab uprising.

Who knows if there would have been peace now if only the British and French had kept their word to Prince Faisal.

I have one more point to make. It's about the difference between the Arab/Muslim mind and the Western, including the Israeli. When Arabs make a war and win land, it's theirs. When Arabs make a war and lose land, they cry to the world that "It's not fair," "make them give it back!" It's baby talk to me. Suicide missions are more baby talk -- spite.

In 1947-8, the Jews who had always been a majority in Jerusalem, were killed and the rest expelled. Jerusalem was supposed to have been an "International" enclave, not Jewish nor Arab. But the Jordanians took it and annexed it. The Jews were very sad that they could no longer worship at the Western Wall. The expelled ones missed their home. They didn't cry "not fair!" "give it back!"

They didn't constantly send "Katushya" bombs and shell the citizens in their beds, they didn't deliberately aim at and bomb schools, they didn't send in suicide missions. They didn't sneak in in the middle of the night and slit the throats of babies in front of their mothers. But they accepted the loss, and turned their faces to making a nation and prospering. They built schools, universities, educated their children, built laboratories and contributed to science, cultivated land for food and exports, and concentrated on prospering and creating a good and decent life for their citizens.

The Arab Nations, instead of concentrating on themselves, put their money and all their thoughts on destroying tiny Israel in their midst and again made war on them in 1967. Again they lost -- and lost more.

Don't you ever ask yourself why the Palestinians, while as part of Jordan, or from 1967 to 1987 (first Intifada year) when they had, while under Israeli rule, the highest standard of living of all Arabs in any country, and after Oslo when they were given considerable self-rule (no checkpoints, no walls) and so so much money to develop themselves, didn't do (and were discouraged by their leaders and Arab nations, from doing) the same thing? They could have used all that money to do the same as the Jews.

Everyone in the world was willing to help them. But instead they chose to just keep themselves steeped in hatred and desire to destroy Israel, twist the minds of their children, haggle over 5% land here and there and a few Jews who want to live in their midst, use the money to buy guns, and murder, murder, murder -- Had they chosen the other way, by now there'd be schools, science labs -- maybe they'd make contributions to the worlds of medicine, etc., businesses would be flourishing, prosperity, respect! Why not fight in a better way -- that's the way to "really show them Jews" by prospering and succeeding!

If the Palestinians get their way and the Palestinian flag waves over all of Israel -- and Israel is destroyed -- do you know what the Palestinians will have? Nothing. It will look like Gaza today. And, because there will be no Jews there for the world to hate or bicker over -- the world will completely lose interest in them -- like Darfur or Rawanda. So will the Arab nations ignore them. No one will care.

But then, my useless thoughts and words only point out the difference in mind set.

After the Western World succumbs to Arabic Sharia Law (because we are confused about the difference between what is purely religion which we protect -- and a religio-political movement -- and because of all those petrodollars) and is plunged into the Dark Ages once again for 500 or 1000 years or so, perhaps there will be a new awakening to rational thought once again. Maybe not. Who knows?


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Reader comments (87) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
America's Traitors [163 words]John HammondFeb 12, 2008 22:22120051
The Policy of Friends and Imagination. [201 words]JayJan 23, 2008 23:43118855
A President who's been left behind [284 words]Roy WeinbergJan 20, 2008 11:49118625
Not So Simple [87 words]BlackspeareJan 21, 2008 11:06118625
Blackspeare rewrites history [263 words]InfidelJan 25, 2008 19:28118625
Who Jumped What Gun? [259 words]Sofa SogoodJan 27, 2008 16:09118625
Bush's Legacy [533 words]Gil BindelglasJan 18, 2008 20:31118516
Bush's Legacy [94 words]InfidelJan 19, 2008 21:38118516
To Infidel [129 words]Larry B.Jan 20, 2008 20:23118516
The world needs a strong USA [110 words]InfidelJan 20, 2008 23:41118516
Fighting terrorism [101 words]Linda HaslamJan 24, 2008 11:17118516
Maybe there is a cultural determinism [235 words]Peter HerzJan 18, 2008 11:51118457
cultural diversity and cultural acceptance. [319 words]Trans-parereJan 19, 2008 18:03118457
With such friends... [818 words]Y brandstetter MDJan 18, 2008 04:53118444
Corruption and ignorance [213 words]Joe KaffirJan 19, 2008 01:33118444
Churchill no friend of the Jews [88 words]InfidelJan 19, 2008 21:54118444
Churchill: friend or foe [171 words]Joe KaffirJan 21, 2008 00:55118444
Churchill: friend and foe [250 words]InfidelJan 22, 2008 02:12118444
Antisemitism-shmantishmemitism [198 words]Peter HerzJan 23, 2008 07:38118444
Israel's True Hope is in the Word of Her Eternal Sovereign. [545 words]M. ToveyJan 23, 2008 13:30118444
Tragic [27 words]Abu NudnikJan 17, 2008 23:38118430
PLO Phased Plan To Destroy Israel Documented - State Dept. Follows It [35 words]Sofa SogoodJan 18, 2008 23:43118429
The middle east is complicated. [536 words]DavidJan 17, 2008 21:01118424
Should islam be accorded the respect accorded to other religions? [335 words]Hymie ZoltsveisJan 17, 2008 16:51118402
How 'bout this one [84 words]jennifer solisJan 18, 2008 00:33118402
The respect islam craves [208 words]SeanJan 18, 2008 15:56118402
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU,HYMIE! [172 words]TTSJan 18, 2008 21:18118402
Hymie..TTS.. You get it right..Look at the Egyptian example..1400 years of persecution.. [265 words]Egyptian ChristianJan 20, 2008 07:16118402
islam guarantees.......... [77 words]vijayJan 21, 2008 12:45118402
Respect for Islam [57 words]Linda HaslamJan 24, 2008 11:29118402
I wish that both of us were WRONG [985 words]Hymie ZoltsveisJan 24, 2008 19:15118402
To Linda, [109 words]Larry B.Feb 2, 2008 14:14118402
The specter of another Viet-Nam or ...The Continuing [22 words]trans-parereJan 17, 2008 15:41118398
A "democracy" is only as good or as bad as the people [257 words]rickJan 21, 2008 16:02118398
Rick [303 words]Trans-parereJan 21, 2008 18:29118398
Rick gets it exactly right -- on two vital points [100 words]Charles MartelJan 22, 2008 11:22118398
Islam, historically has been an enemy of diversity [527 words]RickJan 22, 2008 16:48118398
Support [116 words]Shahid KinnareJan 17, 2008 15:20118397
Israel History [192 words]InfidelJan 17, 2008 16:49118397
Israel. [51 words]Shahid KinnareJan 17, 2008 18:31118397
1Muslims know Israel has ALWAYS belonged to Jews- Including muhamad.. [467 words]YnnatchkahJan 17, 2008 19:51118397
Voting Does Not Make a Democracy -- Gov't by Sharia Law Can Never Be a Democracy -- Worse than Most Dictatorships [1733 words]Sofa SogoodJan 17, 2008 21:54118397
5History of Muhammad and the Jews of Mecca [139 words]InfidelJan 18, 2008 22:01118397
Great comments, Infidel! It's time to be proactive, instead of reactive, to "Palestinian" propaganda. [316 words]DrRJPJan 19, 2008 11:03118397
Dictatorial Regime [73 words]Shahid KinnareJan 19, 2008 11:08118397
Very Impressive- Infidel [11 words]YnnatchkahJan 19, 2008 16:47118397
Us Support of Dictatorship [50 words]JoeJan 21, 2008 19:47118397
Why U.S. Sometimes Supports Dictatorial Regimes -- Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt [1879 words]Sofa SogoodJan 22, 2008 16:09118397
Dictator. [152 words]Shahid KinnareJan 22, 2008 21:15118397
Jewish Right of Return ---to Mecca OR Why muslims MUST be forced to DIVIDE MECCA [119 words]Hymie ZoltsveisJan 25, 2008 01:51118397
Dictatorship or Militant Theocracy [184 words]JoeJan 25, 2008 03:30118397
Blaming the U.S. is Too Easy [285 words]Sofa SogoodJan 25, 2008 23:35118397
Muslim world [150 words]Shahid KinnareJan 27, 2008 23:46118397
Support for Dictatorship Means Security [121 words]JoeJan 30, 2008 12:31118397
General Musharraf [89 words]Shahid KinnareJan 31, 2008 21:57118397
Myanmar vs Pakistan [85 words]JoeFeb 3, 2008 15:49118397
Inaccurate information being put forth [121 words]TroyNov 21, 2009 01:00118397
Bush and Middle East [100 words]Janusz KowalikJan 17, 2008 14:49118396
I agree and would add to your comment [397 words]kid berthaJan 21, 2008 12:21118396
IFF Failure - Mis-identification of the Enemy [153 words]M. ToveyJan 17, 2008 14:07118391
Daniel has converged toward my despair of Bush's incompetence [173 words]Charles MartelJan 17, 2008 12:42118388
full- steam backwards [228 words]Rebecca MouldsJan 17, 2008 12:13118386
Not everything is in the political arena [66 words]David W. LincolnJan 17, 2008 12:07118384
Pragmatism vs Principles [262 words]Ralph C Whaley MDJan 17, 2008 11:17118382
Iran is not the main enemy -- the Saudis are [86 words]Charles MartelJan 18, 2008 13:06118382
Bush is moving towards strike three [339 words]RickJan 17, 2008 09:45118378
Not to Worry [97 words]BlackspeareJan 18, 2008 13:54118378
Whatever Abbas does or does not do is meaningless [246 words]RickJan 21, 2008 12:44118378
Democracy [142 words]Donald W. BalesJan 17, 2008 09:29118377
Bush's legacy: Sucking up to the Saudis and a stupid state department [369 words]DrRJPJan 17, 2008 08:55118376
Bush's Middle East Hopes [1018 words]Kim SegarJan 17, 2008 08:26118373
Seven years too late. [64 words]Larry ShawJan 17, 2008 08:23118372
THE RISE OF NUCLEAR IRAN [3645 words]Bruce SterlingJan 17, 2008 07:58118371
Being politically correct [59 words]MickJan 17, 2008 06:10118369
Vote Keep America Alive [83 words]Amil ImaniJan 17, 2008 04:14118366
How come this proclivity to failure in the Middle East is not addressed by the checks and balances of the American political system? [126 words]Mladen AndrijasevicJan 17, 2008 03:17118365
US system clearly doesn't work as intended [86 words]Charles MartelJan 18, 2008 13:35118365
Yes, What is Preventing the Securing of the Borders? [62 words]Sofa SogoodJan 18, 2008 22:13118365
Some problems don't have palatable solutions and some questions don't have simple answers [128 words]SullyJan 21, 2008 08:26118365
The Israelis, quite naturally, want to live in peace. And so do the Palestinians. - This statement needs clarification. [300 words]Mladen AndrijasevicJan 22, 2008 01:54118365
What Evidence is there that Palestinians Want to Live in Peace? [167 words]Sofa SogoodJan 22, 2008 15:07118365
Mladen and Sofa - You have read more into my comment than I intended [64 words]SullyJan 25, 2008 09:18118365
1Nothing was read in -- You said that Palestinians want peace. [319 words]Sofa SogoodJan 25, 2008 23:15118365

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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