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Reader comment on item: Symposium: Turkey: The Road to Sharia?
in response to reader comment: No turkey in europe please

Submitted by Jan (Luxembourg), Jul 30, 2007 at 19:31

The Belgian King Leopold II's rubber gang killed 10 Million Africans between 1885 and 1908 in his personal colony Congo Free State. Being a Belgian does not make me resposible for that man' s crimes, but I am not proud of our royal family still owning a fortune accumulated by killing and robbing in Africa.

I am not proud of most Belgians' lacking the motivation to urge our present king to give the suffering Congolese people their money back, and, at least, apologise. I am ashamed to learn that some of our politicians have given priority to drawing Turkey's attention to its Armenian genocide, while Leopold II still has a statue and street names here. Most people do condemn Leopold's crimes, but seem to think it all happened very long ago and it's too late anyway.

I cannot blame Turks for adopting a similar indifference about the Armenians, and I cannot even blame them for expressing fervent negationism and indignation as long as Belgian Vergangenheitsbewältigung is at the bottom of our own priority list. However, the popularity of negationism among Turks is worrying and more relevant for Turkish accession to the EU than one might think. For the victims of the genocide were Christians, and the killers Muslims. Could it have been the other way round if the former had been the majority and the latter the minority? We will never know.

To me, in a country that had been theirs and the Greeks' before the Turkish invasion, and after seven centuries of dhimmi-status and devchirme, the Armenians' revolt against oppression does look somewhat more understandable than the Turks' cruelties, but whatever judgement we may be tempted to make, it might be wiser to let bygones be bygones now that we can come together. Therefore, like most Europeans conscious of fourteen centuries of attacks against Christendom by the followers of Mohammed, I would like to know if the apparent bygones are real bygones.

Christians have killed Millions, and their violence was often encouraged by the churches, in a complete denial of Jesus' teachings/example of unconditional non-violence (unlike Mohammed's and the Coran's relative importance in Islamic practice, Jesus' example, not Biblical law, is what Christians follow). Muslims, however, can justify their killing of 120 Million Africans, 80 Million Hindus and 60 Million Christians by Coranic commandments to wage Jihad.

Neither Christians nor Atheists in Europe have to obey any commandment to kill each other. I have been told that more than a third of young Turks no longer believe in the Coran. Fine, let's come together! But what about the other two thirds who believe that the orders to kill Christians and Atheists are the word of God? What about those who think Europeans deserve no better but to burn in the flames of everlasting hellfire?

My Turkish friends, we have no Holy Book that tells us to kill you, to cheat you and to discriminate against you. I think most Europeans would like to know whether you still believe in the one you have. Should you consider bringing its countless blessings to the infidel: please stay where you are! Why should Europe's land be inherited by the followers of Mohammed? In dozens of defensive wars against Muslim agression, millions of Iberians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Russians, Serbs and Hungarians shed their blood for it. If they had not, the West would, by now, have invented about as many watches, computers, motor cars, cameras, washing machines, airplanes and mobile phones as the glorious muslim civilisation has. Our continent would, in the past centuries, have contributed to science, philosophy and art no more than the Ottoman Empire.

You have abolished that Empire; now throw away your book! And we will all know if you have! After throwing it away, you may or may not, recognise the plight of Christians in the Empire and the Republic, including the Armenian genocide. But you will certainly not want to keep your flag. I have read somewhat different stories about its origins, but they all refer to that terrible 29th of May 1453, when Mehmet II conquered the capital of Christendom. If a Christian nation, after invading Mekka, after transforming its mosques into churches, after killing, enslaving or chasing the population from the peninsula, and after creating a flag to commemorate this glorious moment, asked, even after centuries, to become a member of the Arab League and raise this blood-coloured flag, symbolising Mekka's destruction and invasion, side by side with the flags of the Arab countries, would the Arabs be as nice as Europe is now? Would the Turks be if such a request was submitted to them? I am sure Turks do not want to add insult to century-old injury. You will be nice enough to change your flag, won't you?


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Reader comments (119) on this item

Title By Date
Turkey in ? I'm out ! [102 words]Robby (Belgium)Jul 10, 2008 15:58
Who wants to be in EU ? [161 words]ErkinJul 25, 2008 05:18
RIOTS! [54 words]hiJan 17, 2009 00:49
We do not want EU too, do not worry robby the belgic [255 words]Turk AybikeNov 1, 2009 11:25
NEVER to Turkey in the EU [118 words]BillyBoyJan 19, 2008 12:57
Never to Turkey in the EU [312 words]KemalistJul 18, 2009 09:33
noobstar [111 words]Mert The AdolfOct 6, 2009 15:42
No turkey in europe please [39 words]MassimilianoMay 13, 2007 12:34
⇒ Turkish flag [794 words]JanJul 30, 2007 19:31
YES to Turkey [341 words]Nico KOct 10, 2007 16:24
Its an imagination [34 words]GizmoMar 10, 2008 09:29
YES to Turkey [417 words]MARMARISApr 7, 2009 19:05
Our dear marmaris and Turkish delusions [168 words]dhimmi no moreApr 8, 2009 07:35
Keeping Europe European [804 words]TomMar 16, 2007 09:25
Educated European tom makes an uneducated European guess [430 words]Enver EthemerMar 23, 2007 16:43
Rape and Mid Easterns [63 words]OctavioMar 23, 2007 19:06
No2Turkey [38 words]Alex JonesJul 5, 2007 17:18
to the pure, pure european [465 words]esinDec 6, 2007 20:55
agamemnon [127 words]erolJan 17, 2009 01:11
Road to Sharia [87 words]Enver EthemerMay 14, 2009 18:08
no way [32 words]aidonisOct 4, 2006 16:42
No not at all [174 words]ErdemOct 24, 2006 16:28
Blindness can cause personal dysfunctions [48 words]enverMar 23, 2007 17:19
reply [22 words]aidonisMar 26, 2007 13:37
No problem [150 words]Enver EthemerMar 28, 2007 14:11
... [8 words]aidonisMar 29, 2007 11:54
Grey wolf [16 words]Enver EthemerMar 29, 2007 17:27
You are jealous... [141 words]TekinJun 4, 2007 10:09
Ya, Ok ... [121 words]BillBoyJan 19, 2008 13:08
TURKS OUT!!! [12 words]BillyboyJan 19, 2008 13:14
So much for "Fact". [155 words]LeventJan 17, 2006 07:28
Turkey as a member for EU? [1597 words]OmerDec 19, 2005 07:15
WHERE İS EUROPE [121 words]cem akcaogluFeb 22, 2006 07:43
no to eu [699 words]canApr 5, 2006 23:50
Turks have complexes too! [372 words]MariannaOct 4, 2006 00:49
perfect answer [18 words]aliOct 8, 2006 14:18
to marianna..... [242 words]denizzNov 11, 2006 11:19
Turks ? [100 words]Kapageridis StavrosJan 21, 2007 11:08
dear marianna [240 words]tuncerMar 20, 2007 17:49
Another ignorant european [100 words]EnverMar 23, 2007 17:12
ON EUROPE AND TURKEY [41 words]ASMar 24, 2007 17:18
what u said is complitely wrong [42 words]NigelJun 30, 2007 06:22
for stavraetos,the agent provacateur [64 words]girayhanSep 29, 2007 19:11
No... [259 words]No_name_grJul 22, 2008 06:25
does the soul exist? [976 words]erolJan 17, 2009 02:29
No to EU! [460 words]Yusuf Sami TurkerDec 17, 2005 15:41
No to EU! [40 words]Ronald MatthewsDec 30, 2005 04:15
No to EU! Let's Talk Genocide... [569 words]Yusuf Sami TURKERMar 4, 2006 04:25
TURKEY IS THE COUNTRY OF TOLERANCE! [42 words]OgunMay 31, 2006 09:57
Its time for Turkey to dump the EU application and flush it . [97 words]Bulent OzdemirOct 13, 2006 02:27
Dont you talk!!!! [135 words]AyhanOct 27, 2006 02:09
stop, in the name of love [154 words]erolJan 20, 2009 08:52
Some perspective [310 words]BugraNov 26, 2005 23:22
Some perspective [45 words]Ronald MatthewsDec 30, 2005 04:20
Algerian Genocide [61 words]LeventNov 6, 2005 18:43
Algerian Genocide [24 words]Ronald MatthewsDec 30, 2005 04:17
Reply: [440 words]LeventJan 16, 2006 15:05
Your beloved Europe! (remembering history) [452 words]MemoApr 18, 2006 03:17
Respect to your roots... [213 words]CoskanOct 9, 2006 12:15
The french have never admitted their atrocities in Algeria [28 words]dragonfireOct 21, 2006 15:57
genocide? [92 words]ErdemOct 24, 2006 16:37
Give me a break [71 words]enverMar 23, 2007 17:15
The Eurasians Advanced Civilization..? [394 words]AmericaApr 24, 2009 23:03
Radical Islam? Try Europe [468 words]LeventNov 6, 2005 18:38
A Grand Game - wake up ! [396 words]Kevin WilliamsOct 3, 2005 13:11
A Grand Game - wake up ! [35 words]Ronald MatthewsDec 30, 2005 04:24
Turkey - EU [68 words]Ozcan ErdonmezJul 23, 2006 03:00
Thank God [77 words]EnverMar 23, 2007 17:24
perfect country:TURKEY!!!!!!! [10 words]duyguSep 24, 2005 12:01
turks do not want eu [77 words]ataJan 4, 2006 15:02
Turkey Facts [327 words]CemAug 23, 2005 11:08
No to Turkey in Europe [13 words]Octavio JohansonMay 16, 2005 04:59
hey [34 words]aysenJun 25, 2006 12:26
Discrimination Against Turkiye [450 words]David SharonDec 21, 2006 09:52
to David [43 words]ASMar 24, 2007 18:05
David Sharon [13 words]SýlaMay 18, 2007 06:27
Turkey joining the EU would be the death of Europe! Say no to Turkey! [18 words]David AndersonJul 4, 2007 18:53
No to Turkey! [119 words]JPSep 7, 2007 07:08
Turks, Greeks and Europe [803 words]Billy BoyJan 19, 2008 16:26
no turkey at all !!! [32 words]bhaximNov 21, 2008 09:12
GREEKS IN A HISTORIC SENSE [177 words]ZACHFeb 11, 2009 22:04
France and Turkey [308 words]Octavio JohansonMay 11, 2005 04:17
Some education [205 words]LeventMar 10, 2006 19:37
Response to Levent [179 words]mamApr 12, 2006 17:02
Tsk Tsk [978 words]LeventApr 14, 2006 23:15
Just in case that isn't sufficient.. [208 words]LeventApr 16, 2006 01:00
Tsk Tsk Indeed! [383 words]mamMay 2, 2006 14:42
And you call us deniers of reality... [114 words]LeventMay 17, 2006 13:31
keep up with the research [168 words]mamMay 18, 2006 15:34
Robert John's response [537 words]LeventMay 31, 2006 23:17
Some expert witness! [374 words]mamJun 2, 2006 13:07
Ad homs won't change the content [226 words]LeventJun 10, 2006 18:27
simply incoherent [253 words]mamJun 12, 2006 11:36
So you can't source it... [22 words]LeventJun 13, 2006 05:43
Over and out [147 words]mamJun 15, 2006 11:45
Well Documented? [113 words]LeventJun 16, 2006 06:35
eu does't deserve turkey [47 words]gamzeJul 16, 2006 12:45
Turkey - EU [73 words]Ozcan ErdonmezJul 23, 2006 02:52
The French should not lecture others [161 words]zaraOct 13, 2006 00:07
Let's educate ourselves [389 words]CenkMay 10, 2005 14:21
Either you believe in democracy or you don't? [114 words]Jacob CarmielMay 9, 2005 10:57
Democracy what is it? [9 words]EnverMar 23, 2007 17:33
The myth of Turkish secularism [88 words]Octavio JohansonMay 8, 2005 05:03
The myth of Turkish secularism [27 words]Ronald MatthewsDec 30, 2005 04:30
State of the EU [433 words]LeventJan 2, 2006 09:22
Dont want to say I told you so... [719 words]LeventMar 12, 2006 22:01
reply to Ronald Matthews [50 words]betülMar 21, 2006 07:31
Ronald [21 words]SýlaMay 18, 2007 06:30
TURKEY is a democratic and TURKISH country!.... [254 words]çepniJul 21, 2007 17:59
Difficulty to predict developments [441 words]WernerMay 7, 2005 22:39
Cracks in democracy [121 words]Arvind MadhavanMay 7, 2005 03:32
Not in my name [225 words]Octavio JohansonMay 6, 2005 18:30
Response to Mr. Johanson [143 words]Germain Lucas, CanadaMay 10, 2005 12:37
Reply to Most Turks are into Radical Islam [180 words]betülMar 21, 2006 08:07
betul.. [43 words]memoApr 18, 2006 03:23
To Mam. [16 words]DevrimOct 9, 2006 22:50
About Turks [46 words]tuncerMar 17, 2007 19:27
Selam [73 words]TabMar 22, 2007 22:46
Betul [117 words]EnverMar 23, 2007 17:32

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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