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Safraz 3

Reader comment on item: More on Those Alcohol-shy Taxi Drivers
in response to reader comment: Reply to Daisy

Submitted by Daisy (United States), Oct 31, 2006 at 15:55

Safraz, you state, (and, for consideration of time, I will only address this point and not many of the good points you've made )

1. Just because the motto of the United States is "From many, one" does not make the culture of the people one culture. Perhaps we are using different definitions of the word "multiculturalism," but I see America as "multicultural" because it is one nation that is made up of many cultures. Yes it is the reality, but I would argue that it was also the intention - in the spirit of the pilgrims who came to escape religious persecution, so do many immigrants come today to escape political persecution (usually in the form of economic subjugation under authoritarian regimes) elsewhere. And the idea was to create a place free of discrimination based on your cultural or religious beliefs. The intention "E Pluribus Unum" or "From many, one" is clearly apparent when one understands the idea of immigrants coming to America to escape religious persecution; religious tolerance is foundational to American style democracy. Religious freedom and the practical application of tolerance in a religiously pluralistic democracy in NO way implies separate cultures.

As I have repeatedly said, ethnic diversity is a natural byproduct of American freedom, not a goal. Islam, having no separate domains for mosque and state (and for that reason being naturally totalitarian) has a special and important task in assimilating to American culture .. since we keep the domains of religion and state separated .. it's imperative that Islam takes seriously this task of separating these domains within Islam itself - otherwise Islam will fall prey to the delusion that 'might makes right'. Might most certainly does not make right - as we can see in the failure of Europe's 'multi-cultural' experiment .. which today is simply Colonialism played out between two Imperialists: Old Colonialist Europe and Imperialistic Islam.

The moral tasks of statehood, civil laws are, of course, informed by religious influences (e.g. the very idea of giving what belongs to the state - or Caesar - and to God what's Gods' was brought to us by the Jew, Jesus - and so, it's no accident that early America valued this sort of separation of spheres of influence in their social institutions) - and religious bodies are naturally influenced by the secular culture they operate within (American style Catholicism probably shares more in common with it's Protestant sects than it does, in some ways, with European's Catholicism .. or at any rate, what's left of European Catholicism). Pointedly, while Europeans and Islamically dominated states have official state religions, America has no state religion. But we do have one culture.

This unified culture can come under fire as is currently happening, for one example, with illegal "immigrants" and those who benefit in the short term by enabling the illegal invasion. This power struggle is displayed by the agenda of those who would impose Spanish as the second 'official' language of the USA. This sort of struggle, if 'won' by those who would impose Spanish .. will only enfeeble American culture ... and make second class 'ersatz citizens' out of people who inherently deserve to get in line and walk through the front door of this country with intact dignity .. legally .. the same as other immigrants. Similarly, one does no favor to Muslims by enabling this false idea of "many-cultures operating alongside each other" .. an enabling will result in a weakened social outcome for American Muslims.

Having said all this, I return to your proposition, "And the idea was to create a place free of discrimination based on your cultural or religious beliefs." and ask you to consider that the difficulty you have in separating 'cultural' out from 'religious' has more to do with the lack of discreet domains within Islam itself than anything else. At the end of the day, we can discuss, for instance, Islamic 'secular culture' as opposed to 'religious culture' and how they interact in complementary ways (or not). However, that day seems not to have discernibly dawned .. and this is a real and substantial problem.

The Islamic process of separation of mosque and state must begin in a conscientiously determined fashion and American Muslims are patriotically obligated to this process. I strongly suspect the devotees of Islam of believing this problem of freedom will be resolved once they become demographically dominate .. passively waiting for the time to come when Islam can dominate .. without having to first become a religion able to operate freely in a free society. This will most probably play out in Europe - where 'multi-cultures' are routinely held as 'separate but unequal' within the dominate culture (importantly, an idea not foreign to Islam) .

It will most definitely not be a welcome (or functional) solution in the USA - where freedom and equality are held much more dearly .. and where, very significantly, Might Does Not Make Right (as it does in European style democracies and under Sharia law as well). In the USA, Muslims will have to give to Caesar what is Caesars' and to God what is Gods' .. just like everyone else must. We are, after all is said an done, ONE nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all. One nation .. one culture. The process of differentiating mosque from state must begin immediately, if not sooner.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (203) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Hypocrite mongol muslims enjoy hard drinking!!! [172 words]Muslimk***May 23, 2010 04:05173254
Next time Holy Cross will not be allowed [56 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 12, 2010 11:35173254
Judge a book by the cover? [58 words]benladenDec 31, 2010 12:14173254
Book cover has different /deceiving words and some other text [110 words]RaviJan 3, 2011 05:07173254
1Well the easy solution is to allow in many many more muslims to the West, then this type of discrimination will seem normal. ..May .2010 [145 words]Phil GreendMay 16, 2010 12:47172745
deport them [54 words]j davisDec 31, 2009 18:20166638
Being a Muslim is not a crime [72 words]faisal ahmedJul 13, 2009 12:30158800
1NOT BEING A MUSLIM IS NOT A CRIME EITHER! [50 words]Abu NudnikJul 16, 2009 17:49158800
Being a muslim is not a crime. [35 words]GuardiansozMay 25, 2010 19:03158800
Please understand not being a Muslim is also no crime [43 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 12, 2010 11:25158800
1Ironically [100 words]John PhilipsSep 10, 2008 05:05138222
AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS [96 words]knightriderAug 6, 2008 06:42136345
way to go home of the free [137 words]nabilApr 16, 2008 05:19125804
1A more pro-active solution is called for [201 words]MitchMay 29, 2007 18:4595166
13This is Jihad [181 words]RaviJan 3, 2011 05:2595166
Never met a Muslim who didn't drink alcohol [105 words]MacMay 9, 2007 21:5792309
Muslim drinking [127 words]Prof. M.Sep 11, 2007 22:1992309
FYI to my dear Friend Mac [124 words]Fajri Al KautsarSep 12, 2008 17:2392309
grandchild [150 words]robbyn smithNov 29, 2008 17:2892309
Fajri Al Kautsar and Rahmatan Lil Alamiin (Kindness to the Universe) [611 words]GuardiansozMay 25, 2010 19:2792309
Fajri Al Kautsar and Rahmatan Lil Alamiin (Kindness to the Universe) [60 words]GuardiansozMay 25, 2010 19:3192309
Thanks Dr. Pipes [75 words]MelMApr 23, 2007 00:1290267
A Letter to MAC [141 words]YnnatchkahApr 20, 2007 13:4289945
religious double standard [26 words]John SmithApr 17, 2007 17:2189538
religious double standard and request for help [119 words]EileenApr 24, 2007 22:3089538
never mind [8 words]eileenApr 29, 2007 23:1489538
The Minnesota saga expands to checkout cashiers and pork [1 words]J GreeneMar 14, 2007 14:5986291
Next the Airlines? [47 words]BettyMar 4, 2007 11:5480094
Everyone carry a bottle! [100 words]Justin KaseMar 3, 2007 19:1979993
minnesota muslims [54 words]DonnaMar 19, 2007 12:3179993
Muslim Taxi Drivers [18 words]GreyopsMar 1, 2007 20:1979620
1Alien Taxi Drivers Who Are anti-American, Are Only The Latest Outrage [798 words]marianaMar 1, 2007 00:0479457
re:mariana's thoughts [19 words]snakesavageMar 2, 2007 02:0679457
To Mariana [260 words]Ynna (tchkah)Mar 2, 2007 16:1079457
To SNAKESAVAGE. I was thinking about that, and did cut half the caps out. [97 words]marianaMar 2, 2007 18:5479457
To Ynna. Thank you. [1266 words]marianaMar 2, 2007 22:2579457
Some Points. [807 words]YnnatchkahMar 4, 2007 05:3779457
Ynnatchkah: Loved yours too; sick to death of almost all things California, but there are more important things in life. [1082 words]marianaMar 6, 2007 15:0779457
Maybe a good idea? [615 words]EdwardFeb 24, 2007 12:2878669
Just wondering if the relation and insistence is somehow linked to Ellison [109 words]YnnaFeb 24, 2007 03:2378610
Booze and the Twins [23 words]Jacques BakkeFeb 23, 2007 23:0978588
A problem in many fields [89 words]KevinFeb 23, 2007 15:2278540
Filthy Infidels [49 words]NW DenizenFeb 23, 2007 15:1778539
And another example of people imposing their religion on good Americans... [81 words]NotAHypocriteFeb 23, 2007 15:1478538
Taxis + explosives = terrorist armed vehicles in Iraq [66 words]Joe EganFeb 23, 2007 12:3878504
no to cab drivers. [22 words]mika solamiFeb 22, 2007 22:2978437
somalis [12 words]dowmApr 14, 2007 02:1978437
You're choosing the wrong fight [94 words]an OntarianFeb 22, 2007 14:5878364
amazed [71 words]usmc2493Feb 24, 2007 08:5978364
Alcohol, Minnesota and "certain Muslims" [80 words]Stephane S LubiczFeb 22, 2007 14:5778363
Sharia & Alcohol [479 words]Mordechai Ben-MenachemFeb 22, 2007 10:3078349
Melting pot ...facing. [115 words]M.D'SouzaFeb 21, 2007 11:1078181
I was in favor of stricter penalties but now oppose them [105 words]Abu SchnorerFeb 21, 2007 10:4878178
IT'S UP TO THE TAXI DRIVERS TO GET OTHER JOBS [281 words]Sofa SogoodFeb 21, 2007 20:3478178
Unlawfu but not illegal [164 words]Abu SchnorerApr 5, 2007 19:1778178
Taxis & Alcohol in Minnesota [153 words]Douglas E. HaslamFeb 21, 2007 10:4178174
Those multi-cultural Taxi Drivers [530 words]Les LiebermanFeb 21, 2007 06:0478149
Watch This! [1077 words]DeadMessengerDec 17, 2006 14:3169783
help the MN airport again please! [59 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnneDec 3, 2006 07:0868104
Who handles the booze at Dubai Duty Free? [66 words]Josh G.Nov 26, 2006 12:3867401
Dubai knows how to handle Mullahs [184 words]American MuslimNov 29, 2006 11:4067401
Even better way to handle muslims [111 words]Roosevelt's DiscipleMay 8, 2007 14:4167401
This has already gone beyond alcohol. [99 words]MichaelNov 26, 2006 07:4667386
If I were Mayor [20 words]PaulNov 24, 2006 19:4167229
Question time [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Octavio JohansonNov 9, 2006 17:5665692
Problem-solving for Doctor Pipes [65 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Octavio JohansonNov 9, 2006 11:3765662
What if the shoe were on the other foot [55 words]AbarbanelNov 5, 2006 21:1465337
Islamophobia [42 words]Octavio JohansonNov 3, 2006 18:5965207
no alcohol in "muslim" cabs [50 words]JON PURIZHANSKYNov 2, 2006 18:2265126
Taxi Drivers [17 words]Max SamuelOct 26, 2006 20:3364580
Who is the real culprit behind Minnesota taxi-jihad? Islamists at MAS!! [246 words]JaladhiOct 26, 2006 14:3664557
HACK License? [93 words]LoriOct 24, 2006 23:1464420
Hackney Carriage...Hansom Cab [16 words]Mark GarretsonOct 26, 2006 13:5964420
Denver too... [92 words]Scott MerkerOct 19, 2006 22:2962144
Blue Light Taxis [20 words]JohnOct 18, 2006 06:5560822
Go back to "No-Booze-istan". [848 words]Dr Ken GoldbergOct 17, 2006 23:1760786
ISLAM, THE TAXI DRIVER, AND MY 6 PACK [372 words]Louis StouchOct 17, 2006 20:4960768
Islam, The taxi driver and my six-pack [208 words]E.J. ShaferOct 25, 2006 15:5660768
Taxi drivers in Minesotta [134 words]ChristianaOct 26, 2006 00:1960768
Comment on Louis's post [102 words]Romesh ChanderNov 1, 2006 19:4660768
Muslim Taxi Drivers in Minneapolis: [68 words]ELROY J. SHAFERJan 27, 2007 16:2960768
Cabbies to become "Taliban on Wheels" [323 words]American MuslimOct 17, 2006 18:4960752
I Agree, Doc.... [17 words]FrummerOct 26, 2006 00:3560752
Time for everybody to chill out [93 words]Spar KrikorianOct 17, 2006 14:2460729
You are absolutely right! [140 words]MosheOct 18, 2006 04:5860729
Time for everyone to chill out...especially Moshe [88 words]Spar KrikorianOct 19, 2006 16:0660729
American weapons vs. Russian weapons (Israeli civilians vs. Arab civilians) [392 words]American MuslimOct 19, 2006 23:0060729
Krikorian, since you asked I will tell you what I meant by accommodation. [383 words]MosheOct 20, 2006 04:0460729
Round and round it goes... an eye for an eye making the whole world die [403 words]Spar KrikorianOct 21, 2006 02:2660729
Typical conservative tactic of tarring anyone who dares to disagree with you [423 words]Spar KrikorianOct 21, 2006 02:5360729
Krikorian, is time for YOU to chill out. [49 words]MosheOct 21, 2006 18:2460729
Dr. Qazi, why we don't see and hear more people like you? [61 words]MosheOct 22, 2006 10:3060729
History could be a baggage or a place to learn good lessons [589 words]American MuslimOct 22, 2006 21:0160729
Re: Dr. Qazi, why we don't see and hear more people like you? [318 words]American MuslimOct 24, 2006 22:2560729
Bound by Honor? [121 words]FrummerOct 26, 2006 00:5460729
Reply to Dr. Qazi. [291 words]MosheOct 27, 2006 04:4860729
Excellent comment Frummer! [9 words]MosheOct 27, 2006 04:5060729
to moshe [42 words]jon purizhanskyNov 2, 2006 18:1860729
Dr. Qazi [22 words]JON PURIZHANSKYNov 2, 2006 18:2660729
Percentage of American Muslims who support the existence of Israel [105 words]American MuslimNov 10, 2006 10:0560729
Moderation is not the way to go [372 words]YOUNG MUSLIMNov 10, 2006 10:5960729
Moderation vs. Alcohol sniffing taxi drivers who follow Egyptian Mullah Hilali [275 words]American MuslimNov 11, 2006 16:1360729
Dear Dr. Qazi, how right you are! [117 words]MosheNov 12, 2006 05:3760729
Muslims can't drive Gasahol fueled cars! [105 words]Dan BullardOct 16, 2006 20:4560645
Taxi Contents [180 words]ArchOct 19, 2006 14:2960645
THE Solution... [46 words]Paul DavidOct 16, 2006 11:2760549
Islamist brinkmanship. [60 words]MosheOct 16, 2006 06:0860530
Mormon cabbies [67 words]Alan FlemingOct 15, 2006 23:0960508
The Camel's Nose [226 words]Dwight BrownOct 12, 2006 12:5560020
What next ? Bus drivers refusing people [77 words]HarryOct 13, 2006 22:2060020
A New York City Muslim Speaks (writes rather) [146 words]Abu SahajjOct 15, 2006 21:1560020
What next? Pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions? [41 words]LarryOct 16, 2006 12:2560020
We are talking about Public activities only [50 words]HarryOct 16, 2006 19:5160020
Bus service [46 words]Romesh ChanderNov 1, 2006 20:1260020
Somali statistics and Snakes. [281 words]RonOct 12, 2006 12:1960017
Pots calling Kettles Black [194 words]FernOct 14, 2006 05:2860017
I think you need a miracle" [119 words]fulaanaAug 15, 2010 09:0060017
To Ron with no last name-words do heart People [68 words]nuh adamAug 28, 2011 05:3460017
uk experience [59 words]david etheringtonOct 12, 2006 04:1459973
So what? [51 words]Q.Oct 15, 2006 16:1859973
Wake up! [30 words]Octavio JohansonOct 16, 2006 11:2559973
More on the English Experience [58 words]WangleseOct 16, 2006 17:5859973
Re: More on the English Experience [24 words]Octavio JohansonOct 30, 2006 08:2859973
The Koran and Alcohol [154 words]SafrazOct 12, 2006 00:4659961
The moderate muslim? [256 words]caleb whiteOct 13, 2006 03:3559961
Reply to "Moderate Muslim" [479 words]SafrazOct 15, 2006 22:0759961
Excellent comment Caleb! [108 words]MosheOct 16, 2006 05:5559961
Well said Safraz, but I disagree [338 words]caleb whiteOct 17, 2006 03:0959961
facts speak louder than words [85 words]susanOct 17, 2006 18:0759961
Safraz [414 words]DaisyOct 21, 2006 23:2459961
Daisy [273 words]SafrazOct 22, 2006 23:1659961
Daisy and Caleb White - Excellent articles... [323 words]JaladhiOct 23, 2006 13:3459961
Safraz, again. [506 words]DaisyOct 23, 2006 17:0459961
Jaladhi [57 words]DaisyOct 23, 2006 17:1559961
Multiculturalism? [603 words]SafrazOct 23, 2006 22:1559961
Safraz, redux [866 words]DaisyOct 24, 2006 17:0559961
Who is Daisy? [4 words]Joe kaffirOct 26, 2006 13:5359961
You Must Be Joe-Khan! [37 words]DaisyOct 27, 2006 10:5759961
Where to begin [122 words]No DhimmiOct 27, 2006 11:1159961
dilapidated daisy [19 words]joe kaffirOct 27, 2006 17:4859961
Reply to Daisy [411 words]SafrazOct 29, 2006 20:3959961
Daisy-Khan [19 words]Joe KaffirOct 30, 2006 23:5859961
Safraz 3 [901 words]DaisyOct 31, 2006 15:5559961
Cultural relativism [306 words]Octavio JohansonOct 31, 2006 18:2659961
Go to the back of the line... [31 words]Rick HouseOct 11, 2006 21:1359937
Why hire them? [45 words]MelMOct 11, 2006 18:0559904
Not the same thing, MeIM [123 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 11, 2006 22:0159904
I forgot to mention... [60 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 11, 2006 22:0459904
Point taken. However, the airport authority fails its responsibility to its customers. [130 words]MelMOct 12, 2006 19:5959904
Taxis and Shari'a law [92 words]Cliff ThierOct 11, 2006 16:5359892
Taxi drivers [48 words]ChristianaOct 27, 2006 05:0759892
The Mohammedan nightmare continues.... [159 words]warren raymondOct 11, 2006 16:3659889
Action must be taken [67 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:0359889
We will apologize to our grandchildren ... [115 words]Jeff BurkeOct 14, 2006 08:1959889
An American's Response to Minnesota Moslem Taxi Drivers [313 words]David SabghirOct 11, 2006 14:2259876
'Sharia light' idea scrapped due to "overwhelming backlash" less then 24 hours after Dr.Pipes article appeared [138 words]Ben van de PolderOct 11, 2006 14:0559870
This is unbelievable- how about airplanes? [29 words]ClaudeOct 11, 2006 12:3059861
Taxi drivers and booze [74 words]Clyde SnodgrassOct 11, 2006 12:1459859
Extra Light on Taxi Roof for Muslim Drivers [33 words]Hank SteckelOct 11, 2006 12:1259858
TO THE BACK OF THE LINE... [152 words]DONVANOct 11, 2006 12:1059857
Why? [64 words]Jim FeeneyOct 11, 2006 12:0059854
put a sign in the window [35 words]Greg H.Oct 11, 2006 11:3759851
So what's next? [64 words]JoeOct 11, 2006 11:1959840
Honestly [64 words]sbOct 11, 2006 11:0659790
A solution [41 words]VijayOct 11, 2006 11:0359789
Don't bring booze into my Taxi - I respectfully disagree [102 words]Dimitri RaitzinOct 11, 2006 11:0159788
Market Forces [89 words]MelisaOct 11, 2006 19:0859788
Question of Hack license requirements [135 words]Walter HantschoOct 11, 2006 10:2859780
Mnapls cab driver issues the tip of the iceberg [189 words]Walter HantschoOct 11, 2006 22:4859780
Heard Hogan [85 words]DanOct 11, 2006 10:0059772
Christian pharmacists [70 words]redherkeyOct 11, 2006 09:5759770
Shall we all carry bottles? [110 words]KathyOct 11, 2006 09:4459768
I'm in [24 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:1059768
Defiance! ... Great! [87 words]MelMOct 12, 2006 19:1159768
Agree with Kathy - everyone carry a bottle [38 words]Al JohnsonFeb 21, 2007 05:3959768
Revoke their taxi shield [125 words]BethOct 11, 2006 03:0259721
Good point--Violation of ADA [52 words]RitaOct 12, 2006 21:4059721
Don't Bring That Booze Into My Taxi [119 words]Terry SmytheOct 10, 2006 22:2859684
Do the other drivers really dislike the situation? [52 words]Maurizio MorabitoOct 10, 2006 17:4359656
Maurizio [65 words]MelisaOct 10, 2006 20:3459656
My letter to the Minneapolis Airport Commission [1878 words]MelisaOct 10, 2006 17:2859653
A little nitpicking, Melisa [263 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 10, 2006 23:4659653
Bottom line [109 words]Kai MastersOct 11, 2006 14:2159653
Fair pickin' [100 words]MelisaOct 11, 2006 19:0059653
1Go back to your own country [2 words]JaciFeb 28, 2007 12:4859653
Don't Bring That Booze Into My Taxi [83 words]Margaret BorgOct 10, 2006 16:0159637
What if the cabbies WERE fired for doing this? [141 words]Joshua TruaxOct 10, 2006 18:1559637
It's a cash business, man [63 words]Abu NudnikOct 11, 2006 00:0159637
Sue [31 words]MichaelOct 11, 2006 09:1259637
Liberal Claptrap [122 words]MikeOct 11, 2006 09:2459637
Rules of the game [162 words]RitaOct 11, 2006 13:3059637
Stupid cabbies [95 words]raheelOct 11, 2006 15:5559637
Airport commissions deal in airport operations, not counter-jihad [256 words]Joshua TruaxOct 11, 2006 19:1559637
Deffnitely [39 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:1959637
But how? [73 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:2859637
Wouldn't I be arrested? [47 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:3259637
Happy to see a rational mind [17 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:3459637
tell it like it is [34 words]raheelOct 12, 2006 17:0259637
RV-My point exactly [82 words]RitaOct 12, 2006 17:4459637
to Raheel: a question [101 words]ASOct 13, 2006 03:1859637
dirty sex [108 words]raheelOct 13, 2006 17:1959637
Rita - So what can we do? [75 words]R VOct 13, 2006 17:2659637
Iran [25 words]Jon PurizhanskySep 20, 2007 19:3159637

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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