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Safraz 3

Reader comment on item: More on Those Alcohol-shy Taxi Drivers
in response to reader comment: Reply to Daisy

Submitted by Daisy (United States), Oct 31, 2006 at 15:55

Safraz, you state, (and, for consideration of time, I will only address this point and not many of the good points you've made )

1. Just because the motto of the United States is "From many, one" does not make the culture of the people one culture. Perhaps we are using different definitions of the word "multiculturalism," but I see America as "multicultural" because it is one nation that is made up of many cultures. Yes it is the reality, but I would argue that it was also the intention - in the spirit of the pilgrims who came to escape religious persecution, so do many immigrants come today to escape political persecution (usually in the form of economic subjugation under authoritarian regimes) elsewhere. And the idea was to create a place free of discrimination based on your cultural or religious beliefs. The intention "E Pluribus Unum" or "From many, one" is clearly apparent when one understands the idea of immigrants coming to America to escape religious persecution; religious tolerance is foundational to American style democracy. Religious freedom and the practical application of tolerance in a religiously pluralistic democracy in NO way implies separate cultures.

As I have repeatedly said, ethnic diversity is a natural byproduct of American freedom, not a goal. Islam, having no separate domains for mosque and state (and for that reason being naturally totalitarian) has a special and important task in assimilating to American culture .. since we keep the domains of religion and state separated .. it's imperative that Islam takes seriously this task of separating these domains within Islam itself - otherwise Islam will fall prey to the delusion that 'might makes right'. Might most certainly does not make right - as we can see in the failure of Europe's 'multi-cultural' experiment .. which today is simply Colonialism played out between two Imperialists: Old Colonialist Europe and Imperialistic Islam.

The moral tasks of statehood, civil laws are, of course, informed by religious influences (e.g. the very idea of giving what belongs to the state - or Caesar - and to God what's Gods' was brought to us by the Jew, Jesus - and so, it's no accident that early America valued this sort of separation of spheres of influence in their social institutions) - and religious bodies are naturally influenced by the secular culture they operate within (American style Catholicism probably shares more in common with it's Protestant sects than it does, in some ways, with European's Catholicism .. or at any rate, what's left of European Catholicism). Pointedly, while Europeans and Islamically dominated states have official state religions, America has no state religion. But we do have one culture.

This unified culture can come under fire as is currently happening, for one example, with illegal "immigrants" and those who benefit in the short term by enabling the illegal invasion. This power struggle is displayed by the agenda of those who would impose Spanish as the second 'official' language of the USA. This sort of struggle, if 'won' by those who would impose Spanish .. will only enfeeble American culture ... and make second class 'ersatz citizens' out of people who inherently deserve to get in line and walk through the front door of this country with intact dignity .. legally .. the same as other immigrants. Similarly, one does no favor to Muslims by enabling this false idea of "many-cultures operating alongside each other" .. an enabling will result in a weakened social outcome for American Muslims.

Having said all this, I return to your proposition, "And the idea was to create a place free of discrimination based on your cultural or religious beliefs." and ask you to consider that the difficulty you have in separating 'cultural' out from 'religious' has more to do with the lack of discreet domains within Islam itself than anything else. At the end of the day, we can discuss, for instance, Islamic 'secular culture' as opposed to 'religious culture' and how they interact in complementary ways (or not). However, that day seems not to have discernibly dawned .. and this is a real and substantial problem.

The Islamic process of separation of mosque and state must begin in a conscientiously determined fashion and American Muslims are patriotically obligated to this process. I strongly suspect the devotees of Islam of believing this problem of freedom will be resolved once they become demographically dominate .. passively waiting for the time to come when Islam can dominate .. without having to first become a religion able to operate freely in a free society. This will most probably play out in Europe - where 'multi-cultures' are routinely held as 'separate but unequal' within the dominate culture (importantly, an idea not foreign to Islam) .

It will most definitely not be a welcome (or functional) solution in the USA - where freedom and equality are held much more dearly .. and where, very significantly, Might Does Not Make Right (as it does in European style democracies and under Sharia law as well). In the USA, Muslims will have to give to Caesar what is Caesars' and to God what is Gods' .. just like everyone else must. We are, after all is said an done, ONE nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all. One nation .. one culture. The process of differentiating mosque from state must begin immediately, if not sooner.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (203) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Hypocrite mongol muslims enjoy hard drinking!!! [172 words]Muslimk***May 23, 2010 04:05173254
Next time Holy Cross will not be allowed [56 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 12, 2010 11:35173254
Judge a book by the cover? [58 words]benladenDec 31, 2010 12:14173254
Book cover has different /deceiving words and some other text [110 words]RaviJan 3, 2011 05:07173254
1Well the easy solution is to allow in many many more muslims to the West, then this type of discrimination will seem normal. ..May .2010 [145 words]Phil GreendMay 16, 2010 12:47172745
deport them [54 words]j davisDec 31, 2009 18:20166638
Being a Muslim is not a crime [72 words]faisal ahmedJul 13, 2009 12:30158800
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Being a muslim is not a crime. [35 words]GuardiansozMay 25, 2010 19:03158800
Please understand not being a Muslim is also no crime [43 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 12, 2010 11:25158800
1Ironically [100 words]John PhilipsSep 10, 2008 05:05138222
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grandchild [150 words]robbyn smithNov 29, 2008 17:2892309
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Fajri Al Kautsar and Rahmatan Lil Alamiin (Kindness to the Universe) [60 words]GuardiansozMay 25, 2010 19:3192309
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religious double standard and request for help [119 words]EileenApr 24, 2007 22:3089538
never mind [8 words]eileenApr 29, 2007 23:1489538
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Next the Airlines? [47 words]BettyMar 4, 2007 11:5480094
Everyone carry a bottle! [100 words]Justin KaseMar 3, 2007 19:1979993
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Muslim Taxi Drivers [18 words]GreyopsMar 1, 2007 20:1979620
1Alien Taxi Drivers Who Are anti-American, Are Only The Latest Outrage [798 words]marianaMar 1, 2007 00:0479457
re:mariana's thoughts [19 words]snakesavageMar 2, 2007 02:0679457
To Mariana [260 words]Ynna (tchkah)Mar 2, 2007 16:1079457
To SNAKESAVAGE. I was thinking about that, and did cut half the caps out. [97 words]marianaMar 2, 2007 18:5479457
To Ynna. Thank you. [1266 words]marianaMar 2, 2007 22:2579457
Some Points. [807 words]YnnatchkahMar 4, 2007 05:3779457
Ynnatchkah: Loved yours too; sick to death of almost all things California, but there are more important things in life. [1082 words]marianaMar 6, 2007 15:0779457
Maybe a good idea? [615 words]EdwardFeb 24, 2007 12:2878669
Just wondering if the relation and insistence is somehow linked to Ellison [109 words]YnnaFeb 24, 2007 03:2378610
Booze and the Twins [23 words]Jacques BakkeFeb 23, 2007 23:0978588
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Filthy Infidels [49 words]NW DenizenFeb 23, 2007 15:1778539
And another example of people imposing their religion on good Americans... [81 words]NotAHypocriteFeb 23, 2007 15:1478538
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no to cab drivers. [22 words]mika solamiFeb 22, 2007 22:2978437
somalis [12 words]dowmApr 14, 2007 02:1978437
You're choosing the wrong fight [94 words]an OntarianFeb 22, 2007 14:5878364
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Sharia & Alcohol [479 words]Mordechai Ben-MenachemFeb 22, 2007 10:3078349
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Unlawfu but not illegal [164 words]Abu SchnorerApr 5, 2007 19:1778178
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AnneDec 3, 2006 07:0868104
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Question time [20 words]
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
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Krikorian, since you asked I will tell you what I meant by accommodation. [383 words]MosheOct 20, 2006 04:0460729
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Dr. Qazi, why we don't see and hear more people like you? [61 words]MosheOct 22, 2006 10:3060729
History could be a baggage or a place to learn good lessons [589 words]American MuslimOct 22, 2006 21:0160729
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Dr. Qazi [22 words]JON PURIZHANSKYNov 2, 2006 18:2660729
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Daisy [273 words]SafrazOct 22, 2006 23:1659961
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Safraz, redux [866 words]DaisyOct 24, 2006 17:0559961
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dilapidated daisy [19 words]joe kaffirOct 27, 2006 17:4859961
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Daisy-Khan [19 words]Joe KaffirOct 30, 2006 23:5859961
Safraz 3 [901 words]DaisyOct 31, 2006 15:5559961
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Not the same thing, MeIM [123 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 11, 2006 22:0159904
I forgot to mention... [60 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 11, 2006 22:0459904
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Extra Light on Taxi Roof for Muslim Drivers [33 words]Hank SteckelOct 11, 2006 12:1259858
TO THE BACK OF THE LINE... [152 words]DONVANOct 11, 2006 12:1059857
Why? [64 words]Jim FeeneyOct 11, 2006 12:0059854
put a sign in the window [35 words]Greg H.Oct 11, 2006 11:3759851
So what's next? [64 words]JoeOct 11, 2006 11:1959840
Honestly [64 words]sbOct 11, 2006 11:0659790
A solution [41 words]VijayOct 11, 2006 11:0359789
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Question of Hack license requirements [135 words]Walter HantschoOct 11, 2006 10:2859780
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Heard Hogan [85 words]DanOct 11, 2006 10:0059772
Christian pharmacists [70 words]redherkeyOct 11, 2006 09:5759770
Shall we all carry bottles? [110 words]KathyOct 11, 2006 09:4459768
I'm in [24 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:1059768
Defiance! ... Great! [87 words]MelMOct 12, 2006 19:1159768
Agree with Kathy - everyone carry a bottle [38 words]Al JohnsonFeb 21, 2007 05:3959768
Revoke their taxi shield [125 words]BethOct 11, 2006 03:0259721
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Don't Bring That Booze Into My Taxi [119 words]Terry SmytheOct 10, 2006 22:2859684
Do the other drivers really dislike the situation? [52 words]Maurizio MorabitoOct 10, 2006 17:4359656
Maurizio [65 words]MelisaOct 10, 2006 20:3459656
My letter to the Minneapolis Airport Commission [1878 words]MelisaOct 10, 2006 17:2859653
A little nitpicking, Melisa [263 words]Dan GoorevitchOct 10, 2006 23:4659653
Bottom line [109 words]Kai MastersOct 11, 2006 14:2159653
Fair pickin' [100 words]MelisaOct 11, 2006 19:0059653
1Go back to your own country [2 words]JaciFeb 28, 2007 12:4859653
Don't Bring That Booze Into My Taxi [83 words]Margaret BorgOct 10, 2006 16:0159637
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It's a cash business, man [63 words]Abu NudnikOct 11, 2006 00:0159637
Sue [31 words]MichaelOct 11, 2006 09:1259637
Liberal Claptrap [122 words]MikeOct 11, 2006 09:2459637
Rules of the game [162 words]RitaOct 11, 2006 13:3059637
Stupid cabbies [95 words]raheelOct 11, 2006 15:5559637
Airport commissions deal in airport operations, not counter-jihad [256 words]Joshua TruaxOct 11, 2006 19:1559637
Deffnitely [39 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:1959637
But how? [73 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:2859637
Wouldn't I be arrested? [47 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:3259637
Happy to see a rational mind [17 words]R VOct 12, 2006 09:3459637
tell it like it is [34 words]raheelOct 12, 2006 17:0259637
RV-My point exactly [82 words]RitaOct 12, 2006 17:4459637
to Raheel: a question [101 words]ASOct 13, 2006 03:1859637
dirty sex [108 words]raheelOct 13, 2006 17:1959637
Rita - So what can we do? [75 words]R VOct 13, 2006 17:2659637
Iran [25 words]Jon PurizhanskySep 20, 2007 19:3159637

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