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Case is not proven

Reader comment on item: There's a Name for Trump's Brand of Politics: Neo-fascism

Submitted by Kellsey (Latvia), Jul 25, 2016 at 08:19

Saying that Trump is some form of neo fascist is huge stretch. The burden of proof is on you...

Fascism, like nazism, is hate-based ideology. Hate is at the root of it. There is no fascism that's full of love for humanity. To prove Trump is neo fascist, you first have to prove he is hateful.

Now, what is hate? The word is rarely explained, making it easy to pin it on anybody we don't like. Here's what it is - it's a feeling of denying right to exist (to live, to be alive) to other human being. The most intolerant feeling to have.

Mussolini, fascist originale, was a hateful man.

He said, as quoted in 1938: "(The Italians) must learn to be less sympathetic in order to become hard, relentless and hateful - in other words, masters." In 1941 he said that "cold, conscious, implacable hatred, the hatred embedded in every heart, spreading in every household, is indispensable for victory." In 1942 he said: "You don't make war without hating the enemy from morning until night, in all the hours of day and night, without propagating this hatred and making it the inner essence of your being."

He hated intellectual and bourgeois class. He said they are rotten with "cowardice, laziness and love of the quiet life." He said they need to be "kept on their feet to the tune of kicks in the shins". To connect cowardice, laziness and love in one thought, it really tells you about the man.

He was a racist, which means he hated others more than he hated his own. He proclaimed: "I would say we can easily sacrifice 500,000 barbaric Slavs for 50,000 Italians". When a man talks about "easily" murdering hundreds of thousands of people, including his own, that tells you lot about him too.

Anyway, Trump. Where is his hate? If you can't prove Trump is hateful, you can't even start to prove he is in any shape or form fascist, neo or old school.

Here are your main points:

- He will order torture of prisoners and killing of civilians

You wrote: When told that uniformed personnel would disobey his unlawful order as president to torture prisoners and kill civilians, Trump menacingly replied "They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse, believe me."

First of all, ...He didn't say he'd kill civilians. He said he'll go after terrorist families. That doesn't mean he would order to kill them. He can investigate them more scrupulously, detain them, jail them, deport them. Those are all legitimate reactions to muslim terror attack. Muslims are much more group-think than individualistic in their worldview, so it's more plausible that any muslim terror attack is not done by a lone wolf, but by a group, and that includes family. When it's about terror attack, even turning the blind eye has horrific consequences.

By the way, please provide link where Trump says he'll order to kill civilians, because that explicit statement is in your second sentence, which puts it among the most important statements you make. Until you provide such link, which I am not aware that exists, ... That's not good.

As for torture, all forms of detention are some kind of torture. Solitary confinement in jail is torture. There can't be "unlawful order to torture prisoners", as you present, but "order to unlawfully torture prisoners". Since being prisoner is torture by itself, it's about the degree of torture. As far as I know, Trump didn't say he want to mutilate or kill prisoners. What's true is he didn't lay out what he would do, because why would he broadcast to the most cruel enemy where are his lines. Regardless, while any harsh torture is deeply regrettable, loss of innocent lives to future terror attacks is more regrettable. Trade off is done one way or the other. In current climate, where terrorists' families get prime time media coverage to explain "islamophobia" immediately after their son or brother kills innocent people while yelling to alah, I would say scale is tipped on the wrong side. Correcting that seems advisable.

Finally, you said he "menacingly replied". That's presumptuous. On video it doesn't look "menacingly" - something that threatens to cause evil or harm. It more looks as if it was said firmly or with certainty. It's subjective, of course, but when put in perspective of your whole statement, ... That's not promising for what comes next.

- He is like mafia

You wrote: Responding to criticism by the speaker of the House, Trump spoke like a Mafia don: "Paul Ryan, I don't know him well, but I'm sure I'm going to get along great with him. And if I don't? He's gonna have to pay a big price."

This is your second argument that Trump is neo fascist - to publicly say that a politician can pay a big price? Big price can be a lot of things including losing political influence or position, losing the vote, losing privileges, getting demoted, getting kicked out of group, etc... Those are legitimate political outcomes for a politician who goes against the leader of his organization (and electoral vote). I don't know if you have employees or assistants, but if you did, and a person in significant position within your organization diametrically opposes most of what you write, say and do, and fights you one way or the other most of the time, that person would probably pay big price by being fired and losing all the money she could continue to earn with you.

Saying that a 70 year-old man has suddenly started to act "like a Mafia don" by publicly saying that a politician can pay big price for his actions ...

- He wants United States to be respected

You wrote: Complaining that the United States' international standing has declined, Trump promised to make foreigners "respect our country" and "respect our leader" by creating an "aura of personality."

This is third argument? Wanting to be respectable is neo fascism?

And having aura of personality is neo fascism? Jesus Christ is a neo fascist then, like Pablo Picasso and Arnold Schwarzenegger.

But who would want to be respected, really. Such a pitiful, contemptible goal.

- He wants that publishers of false information get held accountable

You wrote: Concerning the media, which he despises, Trump said, "I'm going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money."

It's possible Trump despises media, but you didn't mention he is constantly painted in bad light and lied about. Famous "Trump says Mexicans are rapist" is good example. He didn't say it, or anything similar. He was broadcasting the fact about researched data that says significant percentage of girls and women who illegally cross southern USA border are raped by Mexican illegal traffickers. Saying "they send rapists" when Mexico doesn't guard it's border and leaves it to their criminals to establish rule of that land, and let them rape females who cross it, is truthful statement.

As for libel laws, advertising in a magazine or newspaper that looks like an article must have word "Advertising" at the top of the article. That is so people won't be misled about publisher standing behind certain product or service, but that it's a paid advertisement. In other words, presenting article as true article has it's weight. Now, why would provable lies be allowed in what is presented as serious, factual news article, without any consequence to the author or publication?

But however you look at it, you seem to think that it's one of the most significant signs of neo fascism, and hate, when media publishers are held accountable for false information, since you ranked it towards the top of your article?

To shorten this comment... You don't come even close to making the case for Trump being neo fascist. Or being hateful person.



Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (125) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
One tryanny replaces another [200 words]Michael CaraxFeb 28, 2017 08:46237052
Update to Attitudes About Trump [65 words]Steve HandyOct 24, 2019 04:53237052
8Alleged Mussolini quote originally from Tipu Sultan... [858 words]Daniel BamfordJul 25, 2016 11:37230856
2Case is not proven [1327 words]KellseyJul 25, 2016 08:19230845
2Demagogy is not the same as Fascism [121 words]Jack TuckerJul 25, 2016 00:46230839
5Trump's only sin, is that he didn't graduate Harvard or Yale. [244 words]Michael SJul 29, 2016 05:02230839
Trump is Ivy League [39 words]Jay HallMay 12, 2017 20:11230839
1The Harvard-Yale-Columbia clique [427 words]Michael SMay 14, 2017 19:07230839
4Will Trump also be blamed for killing the policemen? [772 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael S.Jul 8, 2016 17:33230321
2Trump and the media [56 words]dhimmi no moreJul 9, 2016 06:04230321
1Crooked, Lying Hillary. Also, Trump is blamed for Dallas shootings [175 words]Michael SJul 10, 2016 22:19230321
1I'm impressed by Mike Pence's interview [1053 words]Michael SJul 16, 2016 18:26230321
2President Hillary [12 words]Michael SJul 1, 2016 04:32230230
3Trump vs Clinton [310 words]
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Charles MartelJun 30, 2016 15:02230221
1LIBERALS LISTEN [133 words]NJul 5, 2016 08:57230221
2Trump and the Brexit vote [111 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2016 08:19230163
2Trump's only "drawback" is that he's a real American who understands real Americans [776 words]Michael SJul 1, 2016 19:41230163
Valid points but who is left as a candidate? [110 words]CaraxJun 23, 2016 16:36230129
3I respectfully disagree [293 words]KathyJun 16, 2016 15:54230037
1Happy Shavu'ot [651 words]
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Michael SJun 10, 2016 04:16229919
5Why we need Trump [88 words]Frank LukeJun 7, 2016 10:54229865
3Trump's detractors do not appreciate the independence of the judiciary [59 words]Michael SJun 4, 2016 04:17229817
1Scholars beginning to worry about Trump [81 words]PezDispenserJun 3, 2016 15:06229811
4Stop calling Zionists "Fascists" and "Nazis [106 words]Michael SJun 6, 2016 17:12229811
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American Administration Vacillation Between Turkey and Russia Against Israel [440 words]M ToveyJul 5, 2016 11:33229811
A horrible persecution coming [1374 words]Michael SJul 9, 2016 04:46229811
Persecution of the True Church Ends at the Beginning of the Seven Year Purge [124 words]M ToveyJul 11, 2016 11:35229811
Putin and Erdogan are alike uninteresting [125 words]Michael SJul 18, 2016 20:52229811
An article that supports your view [18 words]PezDispenserMay 29, 2016 15:03229725
Vox article on whether Trump is a fascist [94 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserMay 20, 2016 14:46229547
Gary Johnson [52 words]
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Anne JulienneMay 13, 2016 08:29229444
Goldman and Glick [105 words]
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Anne JulienneMay 13, 2016 04:36229435
A way to defeat Trump [48 words]PezDispenserMay 8, 2016 16:38229353
a conscience vote at best [155 words]Anne JulienneMay 9, 2016 03:47229353
5Study Fascism and laugh at the comparison [339 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
CharlesMay 5, 2016 05:17229290
Cultural environment. [30 words]Alien RepublicanJul 25, 2016 01:56229290
2Republicans of Pennsylvania [268 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anne JulienneApr 28, 2016 01:31229172
a sad outcome [136 words]Anne JulienneMay 1, 2016 18:42229172
Democracy in the English-speaking world [326 words]Michael SMay 2, 2016 15:49229172
The flexibility and strength of the US political system [277 words]Michael SMay 4, 2016 03:16229172
two parties still "rigid" [177 words]Anne JulienneMay 7, 2016 02:52229172
1Noises coming from Donald's Rump [124 words]David FarerApr 24, 2016 09:22229133
"Apr. 11, 2016 update: Daniel Krauthammer ..." [163 words]yonasonApr 21, 2016 19:37229099
Trump = Mussolini; Cruz = Lucifer. I think we've hit rock bottom. [109 words]Michael SApr 30, 2016 17:51229099
Interesting Observations [58 words]yonasonMay 1, 2016 01:33229099
Gut feelings are important [279 words]Michael SMay 2, 2016 11:27229099
2Inappropriate term for Trump [707 words]HistorianApr 18, 2016 01:35228998
Inappropriate term for Trump [709 words]HistorianApr 18, 2016 01:27228997
1I Agree [90 words]yonasonApr 21, 2016 19:01228997
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8Nothing further from the truth [30 words]SunshineApr 13, 2016 18:28228946
4Questions For Dr. Pipes [59 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 02:26228929
5Clear misrepresentation of Donald J Trump [150 words]
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Larry BatesApr 12, 2016 12:46228917
Yom HaShoah defiled [59 words]Michael SApr 11, 2016 15:52228887
1Because the Gestapo only targeted Jews?! [107 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 12, 2016 18:59228887
1Making an important distinction [112 words]Michael SApr 15, 2016 04:00228887
1We need to can the hype [89 words]Michael SApr 17, 2016 10:39228887
2Soros' "Brown-Shirts Lives Matter" is Indeed Gestapo-Lite [417 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 18, 2016 03:54228887
George Soros, Mark Zuckerman and the Gestapo (a heavy metal rock group?) [817 words]Michael SApr 21, 2016 14:21228887
Dig a Little Deeper on Soros [89 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 23, 2016 01:50228887
1Yes. Dig Deeper. [34 words]yonasonMay 1, 2016 03:12228887
1Soros and millions of other Jews [18 words]Michael SMay 4, 2016 11:04228887
1Here Are Your Fascists - And They Are All Democrats! [9 words]yonasonApr 11, 2016 04:02228874
Yes, alas, we are all Fascists. [485 words]Michael SApr 23, 2016 20:00228874
4"Arrogance" or "Frustration?" "Fascism" or "Leadership"? [357 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 10, 2016 19:14228866
1Congratulations for your accusation [165 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BillApr 10, 2016 18:53228862
There's A Name For Your Kind Of Journalism [50 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
yonasonApr 10, 2016 17:10228860
1Response To Dr. Pipes' Response [12 words]yonasonMay 15, 2016 22:10228860
Is Trump USA? [56 words]ArnieApr 10, 2016 16:06228853
1New wine on new bottles [88 words]KesselmanApr 10, 2016 14:13228847
2Our government [19 words]CoriApr 10, 2016 09:55228841
FDR [30 words]AlbertEApr 9, 2016 20:30228833
1Where Were You in 2008? [87 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Brian KovackApr 9, 2016 17:40228828
1Neo fascist Donald.... [252 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PWApr 9, 2016 10:18228822
To Dr. Pipes Response [65 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 02:36228822
What do you mean by reading a book? [205 words]TL WinslowApr 8, 2016 11:52228805
2Do a neo-communist article, please [30 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
TJ AvatariciApr 8, 2016 11:42228804
Benghazi Wasn't An Affect [83 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 14:07228804
... your analysis [372 words]Leon KushnerApr 8, 2016 10:54228802
4Trump is NOT a fascist by any stretch of imagination [200 words]SatyaApr 8, 2016 10:52228801
Riding a big wave [293 words]CharlesMay 9, 2016 13:57228801
2We don't need a MuSSolini in the US ,but we need the Patriotic Crusaders [119 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael Hanni MorcosApr 8, 2016 10:29228799
Breathtaking Article [123 words]AlexApr 8, 2016 10:08228795
Interested in the source on something mentioned in the article [47 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
LinApr 8, 2016 09:55228794
1Thank you [49 words]Glenna GeigerApr 8, 2016 09:37228793
4....who's your template? [371 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JEROME GELBApr 8, 2016 09:07228792
the gesture of force above reason [18 words]mythApr 8, 2016 04:01228781
1If not Trump, who ? [20 words]
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CARLOS DESOUZAApr 8, 2016 03:10228780
Dr. Pipes Supports Ted Cruz? Really? [33 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 13:55228780
Trump [6 words]Jan LapterApr 8, 2016 02:39228779
8Yes, Neo-Fascist Donald, But Obama Was That [164 words]Sofa SogoodApr 8, 2016 01:32228777
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Next President Will Be Impeached -Carefully Consider Who Will be Vice Pres. [128 words]Sofa SogoodApr 8, 2016 01:11228776
We live in perillous times; Trump and Cruz are the most honest, rational and predictable [508 words]Michael SApr 8, 2016 19:12228776
3Twenty-three days to Pesach. [87 words]Michael S.Apr 7, 2016 22:26228773
CHAG KASHER V'SAMEACH [6 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:09228773
1A joyous and kosher Passover to you too :-) [192 words]Michael SApr 11, 2016 22:17228773
1Trump seems to be the Obama 2.0 [121 words]StefanApr 7, 2016 22:08228770
Please pray for us Americans [346 words]Michael SApr 9, 2016 11:59228770
17... [With all due respect] [124 words]SunshineApr 7, 2016 21:28228768
1I too am a Trump Supporter but not a neo-fascist [286 words]Leon KushnerApr 8, 2016 14:44228768
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1Speaking of fascists ......... [12 words]dianne gallenApr 7, 2016 20:39228767
3One man's xenophobia is another man's romantic nobel savage [204 words]donApr 7, 2016 19:41228764
17TRUMP IS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR! [550 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 7, 2016 19:19228763
2Well Said [39 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:18228763
3Trump A Reaction To Obama's Extreme Egalitarianism [155 words]DaveApr 7, 2016 18:24228762
Brilliant article. [173 words]Stephen ClaytonApr 7, 2016 17:46228761
neo-fascist [68 words]VijayApr 7, 2016 17:36228760
13worried about neo-fascisim? too late for that [107 words]Bill PikeApr 7, 2016 17:34228759
Indeed [22 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:23228759
3misinterpreted picture [49 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dr. Timothy HadleyApr 7, 2016 17:11228758
[ customary] [98 words]Januk36Apr 8, 2016 06:25228758
you're probably right [40 words]Dr. Timothy HadleyApr 8, 2016 17:12228758
Rebirth of the America First Committee [23 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserApr 7, 2016 16:36228757
1First [31 words]AlbertE.Apr 9, 2016 20:39228757
"America First" [45 words]PezDispenserApr 12, 2016 10:10228757
Nailed It! [26 words]Bob CarlApr 7, 2016 16:23228756
It's a Ruse [116 words]DarwinbApr 7, 2016 16:15228755
1Blame The Messenger [127 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:39228755
Conspiracy theory [42 words]Leon KushnerApr 9, 2016 09:48228755
1You've GOT To Be Kidding! [196 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
yonasonApr 7, 2016 16:00228754
1I've Read The Article Carefully Enough [112 words]yonasonApr 16, 2016 23:12228754

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