4 readers online now  |  69 million page views

A horrible persecution coming

Reader comment on item: There's a Name for Trump's Brand of Politics: Neo-fascism
in response to reader comment: American Administration Vacillation Between Turkey and Russia Against Israel

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Jul 9, 2016 at 04:46

Hi, Tovey. You said,

"Definitions of true Zionism and the difficulty of some in identifying the perpetrators (the sons of Ismael and the like) that desire to wrest away the promise from the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) are central to the issues being contested today."

I agree. You went on,

"The American Administrative Chief Executive has done and continues to do untold damage in an inexorable attempt to redefine a world..."

I agree. You went on,

...

"As for Erdoǧan, his continuing ambition of a recovered Ottoman regime still smolders in his imagination and wherever and whenever he can, he makes a deal..."

That seems to jibe with reality. You went on,

"...Russia and Turkey in prepping for the conclusion of the Ezekiel scenario, the scriptural reference of bring the enemies of Israel out of the 'far north' precludes Turkey, for out of the far north are the children of Israel reclaimed; and therein is the geography defined. In either definition, however, the trigger is not that they initiate the invasion of Israel themselves, but they are primary respondents in the case the LORD has against all nations for the treatment of Israel; yet they are called to lead a charge: (Ezekiel 38:16)."

Your position is reasonable, though I tend to be more stringent -- which reminds me that to most of the world, you and I probably seem like frum Jews discussing poksim. The scriptures speak of the "Far North", which could mean Russia or Turkey; but the rest of the passage refers overwhelmingly to Turkey. This is the country I focus on, when interpreting today's events. You went on,

" the true believer who sets his heart towards Zion is called to obedience to His pleasure."

We're close, on that one. By a "true believer", I think of one who entrusts his life to YHVH very deeply. I think I'm in that category. What it means to me, is that I have read the entire Bible, over and over many times, because I trust that the truth of reality is embedded in there. In reading the scriptures, of course, it's hard to miss the centrality of Israel and the Jewish people to God's designs. That doesn't mean that I am Jewish, nor even want to become Jewish; because the Bible also shows me how non-Jewish people, such as Noah, Job and Cornelius were able to win favor with God. Even so, I can't conceive of someone being against God's plan for Israel while at the same time seeking God's favor toward one's self. You went on,

"Not even the faltering designs of the vacillating American Administrative regime can change the foolishness that the western powers have cloaked themselves in, for the suction of the vortex they themselves have caused will pull them in as well:(Joel 3:9). Therefore: (Zephaniah 3:8)."

Of course, I will look up your "Therefore..."

Zephaniah 3:
[1] Woe to her that is filthy and polluted, to the oppressing city!
[2] She obeyed not the voice; she received not correction; she trusted not in the LORD; she drew not near to her God.
[3] Her princes within her are roaring lions; her judges are evening wolves; they gnaw not the bones till the morrow.
[4] Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law.
[5] The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.
[6] I have cut off the nations: their towers are desolate; I made their streets waste, that none passeth by: their cities are destroyed, so that there is no man, that there is none inhabitant.
[7] I said, Surely thou wilt fear me, thou wilt receive instruction; so their dwelling should not be cut off, howsoever I punished them: but they rose early, and corrupted all their doings.
[8] Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
[9] For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
[10] From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

That sounds like the events of Zechariah 14. I expect that to happen AFTER Ezekiel 38-39, after:

Ezekiel 39:
[11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamon-gog.
[12] And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.
[13] Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
[14] And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.
[15] And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog.
[16] And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.356102.1329115492!/image/757800997.jpg_gen/derivatives/headline_1218x685/757800997.jpg

...and after Israel uses Turkey's weapons for fuel for seven years. That may include fuel from their nuclear reactors; and Iran's:

Ezekiel 39:
[9] And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
[10] So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

It's only after these things happen, that I expect Messiah to return. After then, there will be no more burying of the dead; and the world's weapons will be converted to agricultural implements:

Isaiah 2:
[2] And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
[3] And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
[4] And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

If it weren't for the seven years prophesied in Ezekiel 39, I would be expecting Obama and NATO to turn on a dime to attack Israel, over any pretext; and the French would be willing accomplices; but the Bible says Turkey must attack first, in alliance with Iran. That could happen under President H. Clinton, or under President Trump; or it could happen under the leader to be elected after him or her, in 2020 or 2024. Halfway through the seven years, I expect a horrible persecution of the church.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (125) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
One tryanny replaces another [200 words]Michael CaraxFeb 28, 2017 08:46237052
Update to Attitudes About Trump [65 words]Steve HandyOct 24, 2019 04:53237052
7Alleged Mussolini quote originally from Tipu Sultan... [858 words]Daniel BamfordJul 25, 2016 11:37230856
2Case is not proven [1327 words]KellseyJul 25, 2016 08:19230845
2Demagogy is not the same as Fascism [121 words]Jack TuckerJul 25, 2016 00:46230839
5Trump's only sin, is that he didn't graduate Harvard or Yale. [244 words]Michael SJul 29, 2016 05:02230839
Trump is Ivy League [39 words]Jay HallMay 12, 2017 20:11230839
1The Harvard-Yale-Columbia clique [427 words]Michael SMay 14, 2017 19:07230839
4Will Trump also be blamed for killing the policemen? [772 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael S.Jul 8, 2016 17:33230321
2Trump and the media [56 words]dhimmi no moreJul 9, 2016 06:04230321
1Crooked, Lying Hillary. Also, Trump is blamed for Dallas shootings [175 words]Michael SJul 10, 2016 22:19230321
1I'm impressed by Mike Pence's interview [1053 words]Michael SJul 16, 2016 18:26230321
2President Hillary [12 words]Michael SJul 1, 2016 04:32230230
3Trump vs Clinton [310 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Charles MartelJun 30, 2016 15:02230221
1LIBERALS LISTEN [133 words]NJul 5, 2016 08:57230221
2Trump and the Brexit vote [111 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2016 08:19230163
2Trump's only "drawback" is that he's a real American who understands real Americans [776 words]Michael SJul 1, 2016 19:41230163
Valid points but who is left as a candidate? [110 words]CaraxJun 23, 2016 16:36230129
3I respectfully disagree [293 words]KathyJun 16, 2016 15:54230037
1Happy Shavu'ot [651 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael SJun 10, 2016 04:16229919
5Why we need Trump [88 words]Frank LukeJun 7, 2016 10:54229865
3Trump's detractors do not appreciate the independence of the judiciary [59 words]Michael SJun 4, 2016 04:17229817
1Scholars beginning to worry about Trump [81 words]PezDispenserJun 3, 2016 15:06229811
4Stop calling Zionists "Fascists" and "Nazis [106 words]Michael SJun 6, 2016 17:12229811
Scholarship on Zion [273 words]M ToveyJun 23, 2016 16:23229811
Turkey and Russia friends again: implications for Israel [675 words]Michael SJul 2, 2016 02:35229811
American Administration Vacillation Between Turkey and Russia Against Israel [440 words]M ToveyJul 5, 2016 11:33229811
A horrible persecution coming [1374 words]Michael SJul 9, 2016 04:46229811
Persecution of the True Church Ends at the Beginning of the Seven Year Purge [124 words]M ToveyJul 11, 2016 11:35229811
Putin and Erdogan are alike uninteresting [125 words]Michael SJul 18, 2016 20:52229811
An article that supports your view [18 words]PezDispenserMay 29, 2016 15:03229725
Vox article on whether Trump is a fascist [94 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserMay 20, 2016 14:46229547
Gary Johnson [52 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anne JulienneMay 13, 2016 08:29229444
Goldman and Glick [105 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anne JulienneMay 13, 2016 04:36229435
A way to defeat Trump [48 words]PezDispenserMay 8, 2016 16:38229353
a conscience vote at best [155 words]Anne JulienneMay 9, 2016 03:47229353
5Study Fascism and laugh at the comparison [339 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
CharlesMay 5, 2016 05:17229290
Cultural environment. [30 words]Alien RepublicanJul 25, 2016 01:56229290
2Republicans of Pennsylvania [268 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anne JulienneApr 28, 2016 01:31229172
a sad outcome [136 words]Anne JulienneMay 1, 2016 18:42229172
Democracy in the English-speaking world [326 words]Michael SMay 2, 2016 15:49229172
The flexibility and strength of the US political system [277 words]Michael SMay 4, 2016 03:16229172
two parties still "rigid" [177 words]Anne JulienneMay 7, 2016 02:52229172
1Noises coming from Donald's Rump [124 words]David FarerApr 24, 2016 09:22229133
"Apr. 11, 2016 update: Daniel Krauthammer ..." [163 words]yonasonApr 21, 2016 19:37229099
Trump = Mussolini; Cruz = Lucifer. I think we've hit rock bottom. [109 words]Michael SApr 30, 2016 17:51229099
Interesting Observations [58 words]yonasonMay 1, 2016 01:33229099
Gut feelings are important [279 words]Michael SMay 2, 2016 11:27229099
2Inappropriate term for Trump [707 words]HistorianApr 18, 2016 01:35228998
Inappropriate term for Trump [709 words]HistorianApr 18, 2016 01:27228997
1I Agree [90 words]yonasonApr 21, 2016 19:01228997
The Trump effect has trickled down to schools [74 words]PezDispenserApr 14, 2016 15:41228963
8Nothing further from the truth [30 words]SunshineApr 13, 2016 18:28228946
4Questions For Dr. Pipes [59 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 02:26228929
5Clear misrepresentation of Donald J Trump [150 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Larry BatesApr 12, 2016 12:46228917
Yom HaShoah defiled [59 words]Michael SApr 11, 2016 15:52228887
1Because the Gestapo only targeted Jews?! [107 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 12, 2016 18:59228887
1Making an important distinction [112 words]Michael SApr 15, 2016 04:00228887
1We need to can the hype [89 words]Michael SApr 17, 2016 10:39228887
2Soros' "Brown-Shirts Lives Matter" is Indeed Gestapo-Lite [417 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 18, 2016 03:54228887
George Soros, Mark Zuckerman and the Gestapo (a heavy metal rock group?) [817 words]Michael SApr 21, 2016 14:21228887
Dig a Little Deeper on Soros [89 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 23, 2016 01:50228887
1Yes. Dig Deeper. [34 words]yonasonMay 1, 2016 03:12228887
1Soros and millions of other Jews [18 words]Michael SMay 4, 2016 11:04228887
1Here Are Your Fascists - And They Are All Democrats! [9 words]yonasonApr 11, 2016 04:02228874
Yes, alas, we are all Fascists. [485 words]Michael SApr 23, 2016 20:00228874
4"Arrogance" or "Frustration?" "Fascism" or "Leadership"? [357 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 10, 2016 19:14228866
1Congratulations for your accusation [165 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BillApr 10, 2016 18:53228862
There's A Name For Your Kind Of Journalism [50 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
yonasonApr 10, 2016 17:10228860
1Response To Dr. Pipes' Response [12 words]yonasonMay 15, 2016 22:10228860
Is Trump USA? [56 words]ArnieApr 10, 2016 16:06228853
1New wine on new bottles [88 words]KesselmanApr 10, 2016 14:13228847
2Our government [19 words]CoriApr 10, 2016 09:55228841
FDR [30 words]AlbertEApr 9, 2016 20:30228833
1Where Were You in 2008? [87 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Brian KovackApr 9, 2016 17:40228828
1Neo fascist Donald.... [252 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PWApr 9, 2016 10:18228822
To Dr. Pipes Response [65 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 02:36228822
What do you mean by reading a book? [205 words]TL WinslowApr 8, 2016 11:52228805
2Do a neo-communist article, please [30 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
TJ AvatariciApr 8, 2016 11:42228804
Benghazi Wasn't An Affect [83 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 14:07228804
... your analysis [372 words]Leon KushnerApr 8, 2016 10:54228802
4Trump is NOT a fascist by any stretch of imagination [200 words]SatyaApr 8, 2016 10:52228801
Riding a big wave [293 words]CharlesMay 9, 2016 13:57228801
2We don't need a MuSSolini in the US ,but we need the Patriotic Crusaders [119 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael Hanni MorcosApr 8, 2016 10:29228799
Breathtaking Article [123 words]AlexApr 8, 2016 10:08228795
Interested in the source on something mentioned in the article [47 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
LinApr 8, 2016 09:55228794
1Thank you [49 words]Glenna GeigerApr 8, 2016 09:37228793
4....who's your template? [371 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JEROME GELBApr 8, 2016 09:07228792
the gesture of force above reason [18 words]mythApr 8, 2016 04:01228781
1If not Trump, who ? [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
CARLOS DESOUZAApr 8, 2016 03:10228780
Dr. Pipes Supports Ted Cruz? Really? [33 words]yonasonApr 13, 2016 13:55228780
Trump [6 words]Jan LapterApr 8, 2016 02:39228779
8Yes, Neo-Fascist Donald, But Obama Was That [164 words]Sofa SogoodApr 8, 2016 01:32228777
A nation in ruins [181 words]John EibsJul 6, 2016 10:24228777
Next President Will Be Impeached -Carefully Consider Who Will be Vice Pres. [128 words]Sofa SogoodApr 8, 2016 01:11228776
We live in perillous times; Trump and Cruz are the most honest, rational and predictable [508 words]Michael SApr 8, 2016 19:12228776
3Twenty-three days to Pesach. [87 words]Michael S.Apr 7, 2016 22:26228773
CHAG KASHER V'SAMEACH [6 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:09228773
1A joyous and kosher Passover to you too :-) [192 words]Michael SApr 11, 2016 22:17228773
1Trump seems to be the Obama 2.0 [121 words]StefanApr 7, 2016 22:08228770
Please pray for us Americans [346 words]Michael SApr 9, 2016 11:59228770
17... [With all due respect] [124 words]SunshineApr 7, 2016 21:28228768
1I too am a Trump Supporter but not a neo-fascist [286 words]Leon KushnerApr 8, 2016 14:44228768
Dangerous Presidents? We already have one. I think we'll survive another [339 words]Michael SApr 9, 2016 02:22228768
1Speaking of fascists ......... [12 words]dianne gallenApr 7, 2016 20:39228767
3One man's xenophobia is another man's romantic nobel savage [204 words]donApr 7, 2016 19:41228764
17TRUMP IS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR! [550 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 7, 2016 19:19228763
2Well Said [39 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:18228763
3Trump A Reaction To Obama's Extreme Egalitarianism [155 words]DaveApr 7, 2016 18:24228762
Brilliant article. [173 words]Stephen ClaytonApr 7, 2016 17:46228761
neo-fascist [68 words]VijayApr 7, 2016 17:36228760
13worried about neo-fascisim? too late for that [107 words]Bill PikeApr 7, 2016 17:34228759
Indeed [22 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:23228759
3misinterpreted picture [49 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dr. Timothy HadleyApr 7, 2016 17:11228758
[ customary] [98 words]Januk36Apr 8, 2016 06:25228758
you're probably right [40 words]Dr. Timothy HadleyApr 8, 2016 17:12228758
Rebirth of the America First Committee [23 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserApr 7, 2016 16:36228757
1First [31 words]AlbertE.Apr 9, 2016 20:39228757
"America First" [45 words]PezDispenserApr 12, 2016 10:10228757
Nailed It! [26 words]Bob CarlApr 7, 2016 16:23228756
It's a Ruse [116 words]DarwinbApr 7, 2016 16:15228755
1Blame The Messenger [127 words]yonasonApr 8, 2016 14:39228755
Conspiracy theory [42 words]Leon KushnerApr 9, 2016 09:48228755
1You've GOT To Be Kidding! [196 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
yonasonApr 7, 2016 16:00228754
1I've Read The Article Carefully Enough [112 words]yonasonApr 16, 2016 23:12228754

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to A horrible persecution coming by Michael S

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

ADVERTISEMENTS

eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)