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Islam is still the problem
Reader comment on item: Identifying Moderate Muslims

Submitted by John Murdock (United States), Jan 1, 2005 at 17:23

At a recent lecture given by Dr Pipes, I asked the question why you take pains to tread so lightly on Islam and distinguish between it and "Islamism", and you answered that Islam is in fact an ancient religion with a rich cultural heritage, which you have studied in depth and have come to appreciate. I also read the bio-piece in the Harvard alumni magazine you recently forwarded, which I enjoyed reading. I am still perplexed, however, and unclear on your interpretation of the basic tenets and ultimate goal of the Koran, which tenets are outlined in the article below and in writings by ex-Muslims such as Ibn Warraq. I understood your position, perhaps incorrectly, to be that the "Islamists", i.e., the jihadist killers, are in the minority, and that the dogma found in the Koran will eventually be "liberalized" in the same way that the West, America in particular, has succeeded in moderating the extreme or fundamentalist aspects of Judaism and Christianity (query, have we really succeeded in the latter?).

If I could follow up on this, I'd like to know if there is any evidence that the clerics and the schools in the Muslim world support your hopeful prediction? Is Prof. Sharon (see article forwarded below) wrong in his interpretation of Arafat's remarks about "peace" as merely a dishonest tactical retreat, in the tradition of the prophet, until greater force can be brought to bear on the enemy in the relentless pursuit of Muslim world conquest? How can we expect a moderation of Islam when the central core teachings are accepted as the literal word of Allah through Mohammed, and these words command the killing of non-believers? From your years of study, do you accept the teachings of Mohammed as being consistent with a tolerant nation where non-Muslims could ever have the kind of equality we hold as inalienable in the West? I cannot for the life of me understand your assertion that there is a "moderate" or benign form of Islam, when your Harvard biopiece quotes your understanding of "jihad"--refuting the apologists-- as follows:

"But of course," Pipes erupted in his article, "it is precisely bin Laden, Islamic Jihad, and
the jihadists worldwide who define the term, not a covey of academic apologists. More
importantly, the way the jihadists understand the term is in keeping with its usage through
fourteen centuries of Islamic history."

And that definition, he continued, to the majority of Muslims meant, and means, "the
legal, compulsory, communal effort to expand the territories ruled by Muslims (known in
Arabic as dar al-Islam) at the expense of territories ruled by non-Muslims (dar al-harb)."
Khaleel Mohammed agrees. "The normative meaning has become war—whether
expansionist or defensive," he writes. (emph added).

I can understand your Islam/Islamist distinction if you believe you must appeal to non-militant Muslims and politically correct Americans who know nothing about the Koran in order to prevent the further marginalization of your views. I can understand the need to be taken seriously in the academic and political worlds, and that attacking the Koran itself is not going to get you a widespread audience. Nevertheless, is this not an act of appeasement that gives continuing cover to the Koran as a legitimate source of divine inspiration, whereas in fact it is the source of mayhem and will continue to be used by fanatics as the tool of recruitment? Are we just resigned to the fact that so many millions of people follow the Koran as their holy book that we can never expose it as a dangerous, misguided source of world instability that is in need of serious and scholarly refutation? Isn't your acceptance of the Koran and Islam exactly the same apologetic approach as the acceptance by others of the notion of a "higher jihad", which you forthrightly reject in the following quote (Harvard):

Pipes does acknowledge the concept of greater or higher jihad, which he says is usually
associated with Sufism and with the reformist approach to Islam that "reinterpret[s]
Islam to make it compatible with Western ways." But he calls this approach "wholly
apologetic," owing "far more to Western than to Islamic thinking."

If you believe there really is no such thing as "higher jihad", and if you believe jihad is the same as it has been practiced for 14 centuries, again I am perplexed at your acceptance of Islam as a benign philosophy.

In view of the prominence you have attained as an expert on this subject, and with great deference to your years of study, I am hoping that you will shrug off criticisms from those who are the true apologists for this poisonous philosophy, and take on the far more onerous task of openly dissecting the bona fides of the underlying tenets of the religion qua religion. As long as scholars of prominence such as yourself refuse to tackle the larger subject, we will have Presidents like Bush fighting small wars indefinitely while continuing to assure the American public they have nothing to fear from the majority of Muslims all around them. There has to be a way to address the philosophy itself, not just the personalities of bin Laden, et al.,as the "enemies".

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Reader comments (105) on this item

Title By Date
Moderate Muslim = Murtad [92 words]NaeemahOct 25, 2008 14:28
What do "moderates" say about Qu'ran 2.221? [178 words]HSAug 28, 2008 12:24
Hypocrisy [145 words]AmmarDec 2, 2008 13:50
Let sleeping....... [497 words]IlmyFeb 21, 2009 21:09
Moderate Muslims [179 words]Guy MacherMay 31, 2008 22:03
"My body is a book made of skin and bones, where a strong desire for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and democracy is carved into it." [941 words]Rochelle E. MichaelsJul 17, 2008 13:58
Response to Rochelle Michaels [64 words]Guy MacherJul 31, 2008 16:32
"...My body is a book made of skin and bones, where a strong desire for freedom of speech, freedom of religion and democracy is carved into it...." [59 words]Rochelle MichaelsAug 1, 2008 20:01
My apologies [16 words]Guy MacherAug 3, 2008 20:05
Response to Guy Macher [19 words]Rochelle MichaelsAug 4, 2008 14:22
The saddest part of all this... [579 words]Abed SafahJan 6, 2008 21:29
reply to Abed Safah [62 words]anomDec 15, 2008 14:05
Moderate Shia Muslims that endorse Dr. Pipes [15 words]YnnatchkahOct 25, 2007 22:59
moderate Muslims [21 words]RahmanMay 27, 2008 09:01
Problem with Moderate Islam [297 words]WilliamOct 20, 2007 12:04
Sounds realistic to me! [238 words]concernetNov 25, 2007 00:16
Would You Review? [1128 words]William PillowOct 2, 2007 09:54
Acceptance of Abraham and Jesus [340 words]concernedNov 25, 2007 01:02
Muslims [71 words]MakAug 20, 2007 06:08
Moderate Muslims vs. Islam [266 words]WilliamOct 20, 2007 11:53
muslims as violent [74 words]DanielAug 7, 2007 23:20
Reform the Qur'an [24 words]MohammadJul 3, 2007 13:31
Reform the Qur'an [20 words]skDec 11, 2007 02:38
Moderate Moslems [58 words]KevinAug 16, 2006 10:05
How do you define a moderate Muslim?
[w/response] [145 words]
NaomiMar 14, 2006 16:01
Moderate Muslims Are Not the Problem [156 words]JimMar 14, 2006 20:28
'moderate muslims' [135 words]RunaJul 14, 2006 06:31
Moderate Muslim Definition [121 words]Moderate Muslim DefinitionJul 15, 2006 00:51
Moderate Moslem Definition [121 words]Peter FaulkesNov 5, 2006 17:51
Definitions... [590 words]Sage DeMintNov 26, 2005 16:24
I appreciate your words SD, however.... [667 words]No DhimmiJan 9, 2006 10:54
some mischeifs,some misinterpretetion,some due to unjustice,some due to mishandling [341 words]sohail saamirNov 15, 2005 13:03
A couple of corrections and alternatives [767 words]Abed SafahAug 3, 2005 08:32
Confused of islam [89 words]PaulAug 2, 2006 11:22
IS TERRORISM THE TRUE NATURE OF ISLAM [161 words]H.V. SURYANARAYANA SHARMAJan 11, 2007 01:01
Both ends of the stick. [77 words]concernedNov 25, 2007 01:17
the evil christian wars [217 words]AndyJul 12, 2005 19:00
Born a Jew? [86 words]Matthew StantonNov 28, 2006 21:22
800 years of Muslim rule in India [132 words]Dev PurkayasthaJul 11, 2005 17:39
Re: 800 years of Muslim rule in India by reader Dev Purkayastha [12 words]RahulJan 26, 2007 03:55
unbelievable comment [18 words]josehfDec 20, 2007 06:41
Rule of hatred [87 words]Appayya SastryFeb 17, 2008 01:08
800 years of muslim rule in India [18 words]mubasherJul 30, 2009 10:12
acid truth [63 words]ANIRUDDHA NAGSep 23, 2009 06:43
Moderate Islam Litmus Test [158 words]J. WarshalJan 28, 2005 10:52
Good work [210 words]Mario GonzalesJan 2, 2005 16:18
⇒ Islam is still the problem [862 words]John MurdockJan 1, 2005 17:23
Why is it always islam look at yourself first. [632 words]shobokshySep 2, 2007 18:22
It is more a modern ideological fight [112 words]saesNov 19, 2007 01:14
Maybe there are "moderate" Muslims but... [166 words]Greg G.Dec 20, 2004 15:02
Wrong Greg.. [71 words]The DoctorFeb 20, 2007 02:32
Metamorphosis in Muslims [102 words]Dr. B.NathanDec 4, 2004 16:00
Hundred of Islamist sleepers active in Europe [107 words]Oscar Laurens SchroverDec 4, 2004 09:43
Rasheed said: [136 words]ReportDec 3, 2004 19:33
Doubletalk by Islamist sympathisers [131 words]visitorDec 1, 2004 17:25
Gullible Americans [366 words]M. WolfNov 30, 2004 12:00
Comments on post by M.Wolf [256 words]Romesh ChanderNov 30, 2004 19:56
Clarify please [112 words]Kevin MurphyNov 30, 2004 10:15
How a "Moderate" becomes an Islamist [41 words]Darwin BarrettNov 27, 2004 14:12
Islam is the Antithesis of Moderation [222 words]Arlinda DeAngelisNov 27, 2004 11:56
What a joke [99 words]MunirNov 27, 2004 09:43
Serious sustained research... [726 words]Chris StoessNov 26, 2004 11:29
Response to Chris Stoess [100 words]Vishal VermaFeb 27, 2005 04:49
How can I help? [44 words]Fred SilvaNov 25, 2004 22:15
History [479 words]Sondjata OlatunjiNov 25, 2004 15:24
Good Muslim-Bad Muslim [92 words]James W. DobbsNov 25, 2004 10:19
To Mr Dobbs [12 words]D HamFeb 3, 2006 08:32
Moderate islam [34 words]MilanNov 25, 2004 08:28
The problem is the interpretation of the Koran. Reform it. [183 words]Marcos BerensteinNov 25, 2004 06:16
No such thing as a moderate Islamist...... [292 words]Warren BaconNov 24, 2004 20:24
Thank you, Mr.Bacon! [59 words]Marcos BerensteinNov 25, 2004 18:24
Yes,but... [97 words]Roger WilkinsonNov 24, 2004 20:18
History repeating itself.. [242 words]Dwayne OxfordNov 24, 2004 17:03
Talk is cheap [90 words]David J. BastyrNov 24, 2004 16:55
Reply to David [28 words]Slim ShadyFeb 20, 2007 02:27
This Demo was just to please the German society [50 words]A. HoferNov 24, 2004 15:36
The hidden truth [102 words]HanNov 24, 2004 13:15
Scholarship for intelligence [56 words]Terry G.Nov 24, 2004 13:02
Good work [9 words]SusanaNov 24, 2004 11:24
Moderates? [104 words]Charles ChrismanNov 24, 2004 11:19
Where is the outrage? [64 words]Edson BriggsNov 24, 2004 11:13
Are Muslims moderate? [139 words]G.B. HallNov 24, 2004 09:12
Moderate Moslems? [243 words]Irene FaulkesNov 5, 2006 16:54
No such thing! [49 words]Terry PassmoreNov 24, 2004 08:23
Islam is the problem... [137 words]Alain Jean-MairetNov 24, 2004 06:04
I admit to being skeptical too...to say the least! [523 words]Robert MillerNov 24, 2004 02:48
Interesting but... [200 words]Samir MOHAREBNov 23, 2004 22:05
Moderate Muslims [42 words]Shlomo ben Avraham PinheroNov 23, 2004 21:44
Moderate Muslims?
[w/response] [34 words]
Bob FinkNov 23, 2004 20:16
What did the King of Jordan say? [60 words]Yolanda CanfieldNov 23, 2004 19:51
Excellent [9 words]Herb StoneNov 23, 2004 19:42
Keeping our guard up [109 words]Juan HoveyNov 23, 2004 19:37
Isn't this a parallel case to: A rose, is a rose, is a rose? [120 words]Yolanda CanfieldNov 23, 2004 19:31
I'm sceptical... [68 words]Timothy JonesNov 23, 2004 18:31
Agree with Arthur and Timothy [104 words]LegunNov 23, 2004 21:03
Islamist's smokescreens in Germany / M-11 : M. for Morocco? [331 words]Roberto M. L.Nov 23, 2004 18:28
Al-Taqiyya is used universally by all Islamists. [120 words]Vernon RichardsNov 23, 2004 17:41
The Qur'an is quite clear that lying to non-believers is permitted. [20 words]RahmanJan 6, 2006 01:00
Looks like that could be true [1 words]klewJan 24, 2006 15:41
Taqaiyya [61 words]Nia KhanMar 31, 2006 17:23
Al-Taquiaa is used by All Moslems [128 words]Russell BonneyNov 5, 2006 17:57
Moderate Muslims? Let's not kid ourselves. [312 words]Arthur McNightNov 23, 2004 16:12
Islamic virus [143 words]Shashi HollaNov 29, 2006 03:48
Why Fear and Hate? [281 words]Joahd ToureJan 22, 2007 00:37
Well - actually I am not commenting - But I would like to get your father's email - He is an old friend of mine [38 words]RaefJul 2, 2007 07:08

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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