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The honeymoon with a barbarian

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey Overreaches
in response to reader comment: Turkey......don't be quick to judge everyone!

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jun 12, 2010 at 16:21

Froike wrote :

" I'm glad some contributors brought to light the fact that not all Turks support Islamism and Erdogan's policy."

Are you also happy to learn from Dr. Pipes article that "Turkey is nearly 100 percent Muslim" (the CIA Factbook says "99,8%" ) ? In other words all of them are Moslems so that one might and should suspect the difference between those who are for and those who are against Erdogan is not so much about Islam after all as they all acept Islam's notorious and nonsensical dogmas but rather about something else , like e.g. privileges of the Kemalist power elite including hefty wages and pensions for the officer corps with free housing , free health care etc. which many Turks greatly resent .

> Hey...let's face it, I didn't vote for Hussein Obama. I'm quite certain that there are intelligent Americans that share my political views too.<

Didn't your neighbours call you a "racist" for opposing the first non-white president ? As far as I remember Obama took full advantage of his race , didn' t he ?

> The point is, and well taken, that most of the recent history between Israel, Turkey, and the West has been a positive one.<

"Positive" ? Definitely , engineering the invasion of Cyprus in 1974 on behalf of Turkey by Kissinger and his acolytes and tacitly conniving at the barbarian desacration and destruction of the island's non-Moslem heritage by the "secular" Turks was a very "positive" contribution from the Turkish point of view and greatly consolidated and re-inforced the mutual trust and respect between the US and its staunch NATO ally , wasn't it ? The indiscriminate Turkish descarations and vadalisms in Cyprus include , beside typical Turkish robberies and theft of antiquities , also typically Islamic measures to assure Allah's glory and supremacy as e.g. the small fact that "around 500 churches and religious sites belonging to the Greek-Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Cyprus, the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Holy Monastery of St. Katherine in Sinai, the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic-Armenian Church, the Catholic-Maronite Church, the Jewish community, as well as the Protestant Church, along with their cemeteries have been willfully desecrated, pillaged, looted and destroyed". (Interestingly enough, not a single Moslem site was desacrated by the "secularists") And this all was done by our guardian angels of "secularism" - the Turkish army equipped to the teeth and trained by the US ! It goes without saying that without American approval and cooperation the Turks would have never dared set their foot on the island , let alone provoke a bloody invasion with napalm bombings , expulsion of population , rapes and other atrocities .

The second "positive" aspect of the US-Turkish and Israeli-Turkish honeymoon I can see is also worth stressing . You may well have heard of the Armenian genocide . Well , in Turkey you go to jail for 3-4 years if you don't deny it . But one might be prone to think who outside the Orwellian Turkish republic would believe the Turkish denial lies ? Yet , how wrong this guess is ! Both the US and Israel had long supported and identified themselves with the impudent Turkish lies despite frequent warnings and protests from concerned citizens and organizations . The Turks found new powerful associate for their dirty lies and so didn't care about resolutions and outcry among the weak of this world . Through America and Israel they long manipulated the world opinion so as to play down the historical truth of repeated genocides committed by the Turks . And as Israel and merica started revising his support for the genocide denial , the Turks grew furious . And I do assure you that in the question of the denial of the genocides there is not the slightest difference whatsoever between the so called "Islamists" and "secularists" ! I hope sincerely though that now both the Americans and Israelis will learn their Turkish lesson well and will stop the self-defeating policy of supporting scoundrels that seem to serve their narrow short-term interests .

A third "positive" aspect of the relations is the benefit which backward and primitive Turkey of Kemal's time received from America . Turkey build a modern well -organized army with plenty of latest weapons . And both sides were interested in this "positive" development . The Turks got arms which they could never dream of while cash made man US arms companies and arms lobbyists affluent and so dependent on teh Turkish contracts . From 1950 to 1998 Turkey bought from the US weapons amounting to the sum of $11 662 920 000 . For such a mountain of gold it is very easy to forget the Cypriote churches changed into mosques and stables , isn't it ? But , well , one might think Turkey was an outpost against evil communism after all and needed and deserved US military aid and confidence . But again it's a badly misleading conjecture ! Turkey got most of its US made weapons not during , but after the Cold War ! As the above quoted study reveals : "U.S. sales to Turkey during the Clinton era have been more than four times as large as the entire value of U.S. arms transfers to Turkey during the 34 years from 1950 to 1983." (!) Apparently very powerful protectors took care of Turkey's re-armament contracts and the story of "good secularists" that badly need weapons to save Turkey from "Islamism" , PKK or leftists was a God-sent one despite the fact that the US arms were used maily to annihilate Kurdish villages just as in 1974 the American weapons were used by the Turks to terrorize and exterminate the Greeks in Northern Cyprus , not bad Russians .

> I believe we should encourage and foster strong ties with the Secular Turks, who do not support terrorism and who truly want to keep good relations with Israel and the West. <

Your "secularists" are no doubt in favour of continuing "positive" relations with Israel and the US from which they have gained so much for so little for such a long time . But I suspect that also Turkish "Islamists" won't mind resuming "positive" relations on secularists' terms . Also here I can't see why they should oppose huge arms transfer from America to Turkey to use them e.g. for exterminating the Kurds as during the Clinton era or against Israel (who knows what the next Turkish provocation will involve ) .

> Perhaps they can vote Erdogan and his Islamist supporters out of office? Let's pray they can.<

I am afraid that in view of the above I can't pray with you at all . I don't believe in the Turkish story of good Moslem "secularists" opposing bad Moslem "Islamists" . Whoever is in office in Turkey doesn't deserve - to put it mildly - neither our trust nor our support , let alone our prayers !

Submitting....

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Reader comments (99) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Prejudice against non-Muslims in Turkey [64 words]StasDec 22, 2012 03:06201699
scenarios of islamdom [67 words]CanMay 4, 2012 21:05195440
3Turkey will collapse [8 words]Oguz TolgaSep 17, 2010 16:43178362
1Gulen [37 words]Joseph IIJun 20, 2010 20:20174604
same old story, do it and justify it; the Jihad [180 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 1, 2010 02:56174604
oddly reminiscent? [68 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:14174579
1What really islamized Turkey [195 words]metacristiJun 18, 2010 08:12174525
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [502 words]Hamma MirwaisiJun 14, 2010 14:16174403
1Please find yourself another platform to do advertisement for your book! [273 words]Nihat C.Jul 30, 2010 05:29174403
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [473 words]Hamma MirwaisiJul 30, 2010 19:18174403
NOT TRUE [249 words]EKDec 20, 2012 16:16174403
1Islamic nationalism [16 words]Joe Six-PackJun 12, 2010 16:36174309
News Agencies have been Infilterated by Israel's enemies [88 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:36174243
6Boycott Islamist owned GODIVA Chocolates! [37 words]A FriendJun 10, 2010 11:22174166
4Boycott Turkey, the Black Sheep of NATO [540 words]Amy HowardSep 21, 2014 11:36174166
1Question for Dr. Pipes [32 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Aymenn JawadJun 10, 2010 10:13174165
at last the new emerge of turkey in islamic world [57 words]syed mohammad aliJun 14, 2010 12:19174165
2in your arabian dreams [89 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 15, 2010 04:33174165
islamizm [203 words]havasJun 15, 2010 06:22174165
As long as ... [39 words]RobertoJun 16, 2010 14:50174165
1Just like your government wants. [409 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 17, 2010 05:04174165
imperialists [264 words]havasJun 18, 2010 13:35174165
1watch and learn [959 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 20, 2010 02:30174165
1water desalination [44 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:25174165
i never meant to invade any country [232 words]syed mohammad aliJun 20, 2010 04:26174165
3Another victim of the Turks that invaded the Byzantine Empire [101 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2010 07:57174165
hate [41 words]havasJun 21, 2010 14:55174165
1typisch [152 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 22, 2010 05:04174165
3Moslem Imperialism [352 words]giborJun 27, 2010 20:37174165
know your enemy [124 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:58174165
1Where is the 'Outcry" for an "Investigation" of Turkey's aid and support of IHH, a Terrorist organization? [46 words]Sofa SogoodJun 9, 2010 00:30174080
assault on another NATO member [24 words]mythJun 10, 2010 05:10174080
1Not just Cyprus [156 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 18:38174080
1Why is Israel silent about Turkey? Why not support Kurds? [110 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:29174080
2Nothing new under the Crescent [190 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:07174080
why does Israel not ... [98 words]mythJun 11, 2010 21:30174080
Israel not helping Assyrians, Kurds, Berbers...? [84 words]SachaJun 18, 2010 06:45174080
1Time for a Radical change in Israeli strategy [172 words]Wise ManJun 21, 2010 17:10174080
Birds of a Feather Flock Together [40 words]Barry BlackJun 24, 2010 14:57174080
Kurdistan and Turkish money in America [682 words]IanusJun 27, 2010 07:40174080
Why Thank You [77 words]Barry BlackJun 28, 2010 17:04174080
Israeli-made drones against the Kurds [883 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:29174080
Who can answer the question ? [50 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:46174080
Point Well Taken [90 words]Barry BlackJul 1, 2010 15:10174080
correction? [198 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJul 2, 2010 18:16174080
Correction Indeed [78 words]Barry BlackJul 5, 2010 14:05174080
Optimism? [98 words]Edward HalperJun 8, 2010 22:30174076
5Militarist tyranny vs. Islamic tyranny [65 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 17:07174076
1Turkish Democracy [101 words]Edward HalperJun 9, 2010 18:35174076
Turkey's Orwellian "democracy" [373 words]IanusJun 13, 2010 02:04174076
1Freedom of Speech [88 words]Edward HalperJun 14, 2010 09:37174076
"Our common struggle against terror and law-breakers" [304 words]IanusJun 15, 2010 18:04174076
2"I am Turkey." [1291 words]IanusJun 16, 2010 17:38174076
Turkey in uncharted waters [126 words]VijayJun 8, 2010 18:19174070
2Terrorist Turkey [206 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:16174070
Gaddafi makes it plain: Turkey to be Trojan horse in European Union [66 words]Jack RJun 8, 2010 18:07174069
Thank you for the info [209 words]AlexJun 9, 2010 02:57174069
Hegemonic Yearnings [68 words]Susan SomervilleJun 8, 2010 16:36174066
2How much Islamic do you need to be to become 'secular' ? 100% ! [1293 words]IanusJun 8, 2010 16:25174065
Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth [594 words]LazmanJun 9, 2010 14:34174065
Lazman Turkey is Secular!!! [35 words]spaJun 10, 2010 02:48174065
1The Turkish gate-keepers of "truth" [2747 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 17:21174065
Ianus, you remind me of an Abraham Heschel quote [125 words]LazmanJun 10, 2010 23:43174065
Turkey......don't be quick to judge everyone! [111 words]FroikeJun 11, 2010 10:20174065
1Shortly on brevity [296 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 03:08174065
turkey is not going islamist [63 words]havasJun 12, 2010 15:39174065
1The honeymoon with a barbarian [1170 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 16:21174065
Ianus.....He knows his Turkeys! [50 words]FroikeJun 13, 2010 17:12174065
Ianus, it is quite obvious there is nothing I can say to ease your anger and resentment towards Turks (Secularists or Islamists). [46 words]LazmanJun 13, 2010 17:38174065
1Facts and minds [290 words]IanusJun 14, 2010 04:15174065
Thanks [234 words]IanusJun 24, 2010 16:33174065
1Turkey is just one in a long line of countries to have islam take TOTAL control. [86 words]Phil GreendJun 8, 2010 15:53174064
Don't confuse Turks with Islamists living in Turkey [236 words]LazmanJun 8, 2010 14:00174059
Interchangeability of "Islam" and "secularism" [172 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:53174059
Turkey and Islamism [172 words]Kiel HesselmannJun 8, 2010 13:48174058
2What should Israel Do? [113 words]Michael C. Geokas,M.D.,Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 12:38174053
Alliance with the Greeks is More Provocation to Turkey [71 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2010 19:31174053
2An alliance between Greece and Israel [71 words]Stergios BakasJun 21, 2010 05:50174053
turkey [159 words]havasJun 8, 2010 12:36174052
good for Turkey ? [56 words]mythJun 9, 2010 12:41174052
not the end of life [164 words]cemJun 10, 2010 15:14174052
Russian tourists as a source of financing anti-Russian activities of the Turks [412 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:58174052
NOT ENTIRELY TRUE [116 words]ekDec 20, 2012 15:51174052
1Turks are never interested in what is true. [938 words]IanusDec 21, 2012 16:03174052
Greek Propaganda [165 words]MozereDec 22, 2012 06:51174052
1Mozere, I know I am casting pearls before swine. [346 words]IanusDec 23, 2012 14:57174052
Ataturk's Secular Islam Was a Ploy [233 words]HistoryscoperJun 8, 2010 12:27174051
5Ataturk? Islam? [313 words]WhooApr 30, 2011 09:54174051
Implications for the Kurds? [132 words]Carmen Waggoner, Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 11:10174047
Fantastiic Assessment. [155 words]SvetJun 8, 2010 10:54174046
How to draw the distinction? [109 words]CatJun 8, 2010 10:13174045
I Respectfully Disagree [199 words]Mark D.Jun 13, 2010 22:04174045
3IRAN IS THE ONLY SUPER POWER IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, BECAUSE USA HAS NOT ATTACKED [171 words]F60Jun 8, 2010 09:00174041
1Wahhabi Sunnis [46 words]Solomon TaraganoJun 16, 2010 10:58174041
1Out, Turkey!! [40 words]Godfrey de BouillonJun 8, 2010 08:52174040
Wishful thinking , I am afraid . [321 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 06:07174040
Turk need it as much. [117 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:31174040
NATO and EU membership [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mythJun 8, 2010 08:34174038
2turkey [336 words]giborJun 27, 2010 19:48174038

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