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Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey Overreaches
in response to reader comment: How much Islamic do you need to be to become 'secular' ? 100% !

Submitted by Lazman (United States), Jun 9, 2010 at 14:34

In your 1st paragraph you state "then why did "secular" Turkey vote against the creation of the state of Israel in 1947.."

You conveniently omit that Turkey was the first Muslim country to officially recognize state of Israel in 1949 and if you study the geopolitics of the region you will learn that it was the fear of communism that Turkey had at the time, 1947, including its desire to see anti-communist West (specifically the British) in the region instead of USSR, establish a base in this newly formed state.

Of course there would have been some worry about alienating the Arab states but read and you will learn that during WW1, Arab leaders, some with very high positions in Ottoman government, started negotiating with the British for the independence of today's Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine, in exchange for Arab uprising against the Ottomans Turks. Also, keep in mind, Turkey not only remained neutral during the 1948 Arab Israeli War but stopped any Turkish volunteers from joining Arab forces.

Unlike PM Erdogan who may consider Arabs "brothers", most secular Turks then and today still consider them as "backstabbers."

Further, if you are implying that there was some animosity between the Jewish people and secular Turks ("elites" as the Islamists refer - when kind) during that time, you are absolutely wrong. Let me give you an example from that period. In 1940s many Jewish scientists and doctors had immigrated from Nazi Germany to Turkey and were faculty members at the few universities in Istanbul. Not only did they contribute tremendously to the education of mostly secular Turks they were lovingly admired and respected in return. Ironically, Turks even referred to them affectionately, but sadly, as "our gifts from Hitler".

In your 2nd paragraph you state " ... no one in Turkey can ever contradict in public what Kemal said without facing a jail sentence on charges of denigration of His Holiness Ataturk. There are special laws that make any open criticism of Kemal illegal …"

"His Holiness Ataturk" died in 1938. It wasn't until later that the Islamists who felt Ataturk had "limited" their religion and the tarikats (Islamic cults) started revolting in many areas of the country, some very deadly, including as symbolism on their part, the burning of Ataturk pictures and smashing his statues (even 17 in one day). The law was passed in 1951 to curb not the attack on his memory but what Islamist viewed as the new secular Turkey.

BTW, not laws; there is only one law and don't you worry yourself; during Erdogan's AKP government Ataturk haters are safe. Even AKP's second man in charge a few years ago said in an interview with NYTimes that in effect "Turks suffered trauma with Ataturk's reforms." Also, a couple of years ago two covered girls gave an interview on Turkish TV stating they did not like Ataturk, but that they liked Khomeini. To my knowledge they are fine and in fact became quite popular.

Ianus, open your "gates to the reality and truth" and let me explain this to you another way. The issue is not a picture or a statue of a dead man that is being denigrated; it is the symbol of secularism and principles of modern Turkey that it represents and the Islamists love to attack.

I can't address any more of the angry ramblings in each of your next seven paragraphs, just counting the issues tired me out!! But I realize it makes you feel good and certain minds may buy into this stuff.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (99) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Prejudice against non-Muslims in Turkey [64 words]StasDec 22, 2012 03:06201699
scenarios of islamdom [67 words]CanMay 4, 2012 21:05195440
3Turkey will collapse [8 words]Oguz TolgaSep 17, 2010 16:43178362
1Gulen [37 words]Joseph IIJun 20, 2010 20:20174604
same old story, do it and justify it; the Jihad [180 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 1, 2010 02:56174604
oddly reminiscent? [68 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:14174579
1What really islamized Turkey [195 words]metacristiJun 18, 2010 08:12174525
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [502 words]Hamma MirwaisiJun 14, 2010 14:16174403
1Please find yourself another platform to do advertisement for your book! [273 words]Nihat C.Jul 30, 2010 05:29174403
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [473 words]Hamma MirwaisiJul 30, 2010 19:18174403
NOT TRUE [249 words]EKDec 20, 2012 16:16174403
1Islamic nationalism [16 words]Joe Six-PackJun 12, 2010 16:36174309
News Agencies have been Infilterated by Israel's enemies [88 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:36174243
6Boycott Islamist owned GODIVA Chocolates! [37 words]A FriendJun 10, 2010 11:22174166
4Boycott Turkey, the Black Sheep of NATO [540 words]Amy HowardSep 21, 2014 11:36174166
1Question for Dr. Pipes [32 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Aymenn JawadJun 10, 2010 10:13174165
at last the new emerge of turkey in islamic world [57 words]syed mohammad aliJun 14, 2010 12:19174165
2in your arabian dreams [89 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 15, 2010 04:33174165
islamizm [203 words]havasJun 15, 2010 06:22174165
As long as ... [39 words]RobertoJun 16, 2010 14:50174165
1Just like your government wants. [409 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 17, 2010 05:04174165
imperialists [264 words]havasJun 18, 2010 13:35174165
1watch and learn [959 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 20, 2010 02:30174165
1water desalination [44 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:25174165
i never meant to invade any country [232 words]syed mohammad aliJun 20, 2010 04:26174165
3Another victim of the Turks that invaded the Byzantine Empire [101 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2010 07:57174165
hate [41 words]havasJun 21, 2010 14:55174165
1typisch [152 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 22, 2010 05:04174165
3Moslem Imperialism [352 words]giborJun 27, 2010 20:37174165
know your enemy [124 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:58174165
1Where is the 'Outcry" for an "Investigation" of Turkey's aid and support of IHH, a Terrorist organization? [46 words]Sofa SogoodJun 9, 2010 00:30174080
assault on another NATO member [24 words]mythJun 10, 2010 05:10174080
1Not just Cyprus [156 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 18:38174080
1Why is Israel silent about Turkey? Why not support Kurds? [110 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:29174080
2Nothing new under the Crescent [190 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:07174080
why does Israel not ... [98 words]mythJun 11, 2010 21:30174080
Israel not helping Assyrians, Kurds, Berbers...? [84 words]SachaJun 18, 2010 06:45174080
1Time for a Radical change in Israeli strategy [172 words]Wise ManJun 21, 2010 17:10174080
Birds of a Feather Flock Together [40 words]Barry BlackJun 24, 2010 14:57174080
Kurdistan and Turkish money in America [682 words]IanusJun 27, 2010 07:40174080
Why Thank You [77 words]Barry BlackJun 28, 2010 17:04174080
Israeli-made drones against the Kurds [883 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:29174080
Who can answer the question ? [50 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:46174080
Point Well Taken [90 words]Barry BlackJul 1, 2010 15:10174080
correction? [198 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJul 2, 2010 18:16174080
Correction Indeed [78 words]Barry BlackJul 5, 2010 14:05174080
Optimism? [98 words]Edward HalperJun 8, 2010 22:30174076
5Militarist tyranny vs. Islamic tyranny [65 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 17:07174076
1Turkish Democracy [101 words]Edward HalperJun 9, 2010 18:35174076
Turkey's Orwellian "democracy" [373 words]IanusJun 13, 2010 02:04174076
1Freedom of Speech [88 words]Edward HalperJun 14, 2010 09:37174076
"Our common struggle against terror and law-breakers" [304 words]IanusJun 15, 2010 18:04174076
2"I am Turkey." [1291 words]IanusJun 16, 2010 17:38174076
Turkey in uncharted waters [126 words]VijayJun 8, 2010 18:19174070
2Terrorist Turkey [206 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:16174070
Gaddafi makes it plain: Turkey to be Trojan horse in European Union [66 words]Jack RJun 8, 2010 18:07174069
Thank you for the info [209 words]AlexJun 9, 2010 02:57174069
Hegemonic Yearnings [68 words]Susan SomervilleJun 8, 2010 16:36174066
2How much Islamic do you need to be to become 'secular' ? 100% ! [1293 words]IanusJun 8, 2010 16:25174065
Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth [594 words]LazmanJun 9, 2010 14:34174065
Lazman Turkey is Secular!!! [35 words]spaJun 10, 2010 02:48174065
1The Turkish gate-keepers of "truth" [2747 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 17:21174065
Ianus, you remind me of an Abraham Heschel quote [125 words]LazmanJun 10, 2010 23:43174065
Turkey......don't be quick to judge everyone! [111 words]FroikeJun 11, 2010 10:20174065
1Shortly on brevity [296 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 03:08174065
turkey is not going islamist [63 words]havasJun 12, 2010 15:39174065
1The honeymoon with a barbarian [1170 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 16:21174065
Ianus.....He knows his Turkeys! [50 words]FroikeJun 13, 2010 17:12174065
Ianus, it is quite obvious there is nothing I can say to ease your anger and resentment towards Turks (Secularists or Islamists). [46 words]LazmanJun 13, 2010 17:38174065
1Facts and minds [290 words]IanusJun 14, 2010 04:15174065
Thanks [234 words]IanusJun 24, 2010 16:33174065
1Turkey is just one in a long line of countries to have islam take TOTAL control. [86 words]Phil GreendJun 8, 2010 15:53174064
Don't confuse Turks with Islamists living in Turkey [236 words]LazmanJun 8, 2010 14:00174059
Interchangeability of "Islam" and "secularism" [172 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:53174059
Turkey and Islamism [172 words]Kiel HesselmannJun 8, 2010 13:48174058
2What should Israel Do? [113 words]Michael C. Geokas,M.D.,Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 12:38174053
Alliance with the Greeks is More Provocation to Turkey [71 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2010 19:31174053
2An alliance between Greece and Israel [71 words]Stergios BakasJun 21, 2010 05:50174053
turkey [159 words]havasJun 8, 2010 12:36174052
good for Turkey ? [56 words]mythJun 9, 2010 12:41174052
not the end of life [164 words]cemJun 10, 2010 15:14174052
Russian tourists as a source of financing anti-Russian activities of the Turks [412 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:58174052
NOT ENTIRELY TRUE [116 words]ekDec 20, 2012 15:51174052
1Turks are never interested in what is true. [938 words]IanusDec 21, 2012 16:03174052
Greek Propaganda [165 words]MozereDec 22, 2012 06:51174052
1Mozere, I know I am casting pearls before swine. [346 words]IanusDec 23, 2012 14:57174052
Ataturk's Secular Islam Was a Ploy [233 words]HistoryscoperJun 8, 2010 12:27174051
5Ataturk? Islam? [313 words]WhooApr 30, 2011 09:54174051
Implications for the Kurds? [132 words]Carmen Waggoner, Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 11:10174047
Fantastiic Assessment. [155 words]SvetJun 8, 2010 10:54174046
How to draw the distinction? [109 words]CatJun 8, 2010 10:13174045
I Respectfully Disagree [199 words]Mark D.Jun 13, 2010 22:04174045
3IRAN IS THE ONLY SUPER POWER IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, BECAUSE USA HAS NOT ATTACKED [171 words]F60Jun 8, 2010 09:00174041
1Wahhabi Sunnis [46 words]Solomon TaraganoJun 16, 2010 10:58174041
1Out, Turkey!! [40 words]Godfrey de BouillonJun 8, 2010 08:52174040
Wishful thinking , I am afraid . [321 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 06:07174040
Turk need it as much. [117 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:31174040
NATO and EU membership [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mythJun 8, 2010 08:34174038
2turkey [336 words]giborJun 27, 2010 19:48174038

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Mark my comment as a response to Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth by Lazman

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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