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The Turkish gate-keepers of "truth"

Reader comment on item: Islamist Turkey Overreaches
in response to reader comment: Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jun 10, 2010 at 17:21

Lazman wrote :

>You conveniently omit that Turkey was the first Muslim country to officially recognize state of Israel in 1949<

And Iran was the second , wasn't it ? Anyway, don't you find it remarkable that official or semi-official accounts of the Turkish-Israeli relations all start with this fact conveniently forgetting, ignoring or suppressing an earlier and much more fundamental fact of the denial on the part of the Turks of the right of Jews to have their own state ? Now tell me what is more inconvenient – denying the right for a people who had been brought to the verge of extermination to have a state that would protect them or officially , i.e. opportunistically , recognizing it some two years later ?

> and if you study the geopolitics of the region you will learn that it was the fear of communism that Turkey had at the time, 1947, <

Can you imagine that the US and many other countries had the same – and even more valid - fear of communism in 1947 and yet voted "Yes" on UN General Assembly Resolution 181 ? But hey , your argument would have been a perfect pretext for the US to deny the Jews the right to statehood , wouldn't it ? And yet somehow America and many other non-communist countries found this pretext despicable while Turkey on the contrary found it decorous enough and made full use of it !

> including its desire to see anti-communist West (specifically the British) in the region instead of USSR, establish a base in this newly formed state.<

Now Turkey whose very existence is owed to Soviet Russia and communism ( the Kemal-Lenin axis ) is the last country to preach anti-communism here or anywhere else . For the laudatory speeches Ghazi Kemal held with Frunze and Aralov on Lenin , the Soviet power and communism Kemal should have been hanged by his own followers . But no ! Any critical remark on him is criminalized while treachery and perfidy widely practised by him are consistently imitated by his disciples !

Turks can suppress much truth at home but will never manage to suppress and distort it all abroad , despite their efforts to persecute and suppress free speech even abroad threatening to arrest and jail anyone who says the bitter truth about Kemal on the Internet . They do it quite officially and you pretend there is such a freedom of speech in Turkey ! Turkey is a police state and freedom of speech is no for Turks .

Coming back to your agrument , many of those communists you make us believe Turkey hated so much have been until honorary citizens of the Turkish Republic and if you have ever happened to be at Taxim Square in Istanbul and looked closely at who stands near Ghazi Kemal in the Group Sculpture there , you will have recognized a staunch communist and the founder of the Soviet Military Intelligence S.I. Aralov next to Kemal . An interesting example of your Turkey's "anti-communism" , isn't it ? It looks like the well-known fable of the sultan's new clothes to my mind.

One more thing , in 1947 Britain was really trying to establish its bases near Turkey , although not longer in Israel where the Jews hated and forced them out fighting them for their pro-Arab policy , but in Greece where they had unleashed a bloody civil war which was so welcome to Turkey , wasn't it ?

>Of course there would have been some worry about alienating the Arab states but read and you will learn that during WW1, Arab leaders, some with very high positions in Ottoman government, started negotiating with the British for the independence of today's Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine, in exchange for Arab uprising against the Ottomans Turks.<

I know the story of Lawrence of Arabia and the disgust of Arabs for the Turk .

> Also, keep in mind, Turkey not only remained neutral during the 1948 Arab Israeli War but stopped any Turkish volunteers from joining Arab forces.<

Turkish jihadists killed or captured by the Jews in 1948 might have greatly alientaed the American public opinion from poor Turkey pressed hard by its former Soviet saviour . And so instead of an American atomic bomb guarding Turkey from rightful Russian claims of treason and collaboration with the Nazis and of the Armenian genocide , America might have changed its mind on perfidious Turkey and then Kemal's promise to make Turkey Soviet would have belatedly and whimsically been implemented .

>Unlike PM Erdogan who may consider Arabs "brothers", most secular Turks then and today still consider them as "backstabbers."

Interesting how Turkish traitors accuse everybody of treason except themselves .

> Further, if you are implying that there was some animosity between the Jewish people and secular Turks ("elites" as the Islamists refer - when kind) during that time, you are absolutely wrong. Let me give you an example from that period. In 1940s many Jewish scientists and doctors had immigrated from Nazi Germany to Turkey and were faculty members at the few universities in Istanbul. Not only did they contribute tremendously to the education of mostly secular Turks they were lovingly admired and respected in return.<

Another official Turkish story ? No self-righteous pro-Turkish tale about the Jewish pogroms staged by Kemal in Thrace in 1934 ?

Yet , even this story of Jews fleeing Nazi Germany with Turkish help is misleading as it omits two essential details. First , diplomats involved in smuggling Jews to or over Turkey didn't act as official representatives of Turkey as Turkey officially forbade to grant visas to German Jews . Second , more important , you forget to tell us how much money every Jew had to pay to get a false Turkish visa ? As an official visa was impossible to get we can imagine what prices a false visa reached . The bakshish involved was enormous and many Turkish officials grew fat on the Jewish plight . Unlike Schindler the Turks were cynical and unsentimental . Some lucky and rich Jews were saved this way no doubt , but what the Turks were really after is best illustrated by the notorious case of the Struma . There were so many wretched Jews in need and they arrived at the safe Turkish port of Istanbul . They may have thought they tragic journey from hell was over . But how wrong they were ! They had nothing to pay huge bakshish to the Turkish pashas with and so they were sent back to destruction . The Turkish logic was simple - "No cash , no help !" So don't tell us fairy tales about how generous "secular" Turks were and how well they treated the Jews ! They saw the holocaust as an Allah-sent opportunity to get rich quick and they did all they could to do that ! And , besides , they grew rich both on the Jews and on the Nazis !

> Ironically, Turks even referred to them affectionately, but sadly, as "our gifts from Hitler".<

Speaking of gifts from Hitler and growing rich on Nazis , the Turks got a splendid treaty of peace and cooperation , including territorial promises , with Germany two days before Hitler's invasion of Russia . The Turkish gold reserve increased 5 times during the war thanks to the generosity of Turkey's Nazi customers who needed strategic raw materials from Turkey . This not withstanding the Turks tried to suck dry the Turkish Jews and the Greeks in Istanbul through the infamous Varlık Vergisi ="wealth tax" ! The taste of teh pudding is in the eating, isn't it ? Pan-Turkic propaganda and ambitions had been instantly revived reaching delirium fever unheard of since Enver Pasha's days with plans to invade and divide the USSR between Turks and Germans after the German conquest of Stalingrad . In exchange the Turks sent strategic raw materials and let numerous Nazi war ships through the straits either to fight the Soviets in the Black Sea or to allow them to escape the pursuing Soviets in 1944 .

And still Turkey - true to its nature of a predator and opportunist - betrayed Hitler and finally , when the Russians emerged on the Bulgarian frontier , even declared war on their admired Nazi benefactors .

> "His Holiness Ataturk" died in 1938. It wasn't until later that the Islamists who felt Ataturk had "limited" their religion and the tarikats (Islamic cults) started revolting in many areas of the country<

Kurdish Islamists used to rebel against him during his lifetime not just against his evil ghost as their successors .

>some very deadly, including as symbolism on their part, the burning of Ataturk pictures and smashing his statues (even 17 in one day) .

Nowadays even chewing a gum in front of his statue may get you into jail . As to burning the effigies of Kemal , what else did a traitor and war criminal like Kemal deserve anyway ? His movement started as a jihad , he was accorded the supreme Moslem Ottoman title of "Ghazi" , i.e. "Allah's successful warrior" , "destroyer of Christians", for his extermination of kafirs in Anatolia and yet he deceived his followers and turned against Islam . He promised the Kurds freedom and happiness and much more than they got in the Treaty of Sèvres and yet when the war was over he refused to even acknowlegde the existence of Kurds . He promised Lenin a Soviet Turkey and a common struggle against Western imperialists in exchange for such trifles as Soviet arms , gold and military expertise . And while getting all he needed he had communists assassinated and joined hands with the imperialists .

> The law was passed in 1951 to curb not the attack on his memory but what Islamist viewed as the new secular Turkey.

The reason why Law No. 5816 was passed in 1951 was that Turkey under the pressure of its new -American this time - saviour and protector - like in the earlier days of Kemal - had to make another leap to look "democratic" by finishing later Kemal's one-party system and introducing political pluralism . What was aimed by this law was this : while having many party in the country , none of them should ever become anti-Kemalist. No one would ever dare express any criticism of Kemal and so no official anti-Kemalist group or movement would ever emerge . Thus one had apparently many parties (like in a democracy) while essentially retaining the spirit of the one-party Kemalist political system before 1951 . Again, this medieval law was passed to perpetuate Kemal's regime by criminalizing and outlawing any critical discussion about Kemal .

>BTW, not laws; there is only one law

Actually, law 5816 has much to do with Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code as Turkishness widely overlaps with Kemalism or Kemal's definition of Turkishness . You can't escape this double trap and so if I wrote the above words in Turkey , I'd hardly survive the next 24 hours as a free man .

> and don't you worry yourself; during Erdogan's AKP government Ataturk haters are safe.<

How do you mean ? Has he rescinded Law Nr. 5816 ? People get jailed for such trifles as describing him as wearing a chador to escape assassination , and you imply public haters of him are safe ?

> Even AKP's second man in charge a few years ago said in an interview with NYTimes that in effect "Turks suffered trauma with Ataturk's reforms."

He was right , wasn't he? If the Turks suffered "trauma" with his reforms , what would he say about the Greeks or Armenians he had burnt alive or tortured to death and butchered by tens of thousands by his jihadist hangmen ?

> Also, a couple of years ago two covered girls gave an interview on Turkish TV stating they did not like Ataturk, but that they liked Khomeini. To my knowledge they are fine and in fact became quite popular.<

To my knolwedge they suffered much harassment as early as two days after they had made their statements as "the public prosecutor in the Istanbul neighborhood of Beyoglu initiated a criminal investigation" against them. I am not sure of its outcome , but the message is clear enough at any event . You don't even a right to say in public "I don't like Ataturk" !

>Ianus, open your "gates to the reality and truth"

From what pro-Turkish fairy tales you spread here I infer the gates to your "reality and truth" are well guarded by experienced Turkish gate-keepers , aren't they ? Thanks for the invitation , but I'd rather look for my own entry into reality and truth without any Turk helping me in and where no Turkish thugs and liars and their laws are precluding any research and any rational thought .

>and let me explain this to you another way. The issue is not a picture or a statue of a dead man that is being denigrated; it is the symbol of secularism and principles of modern Turkey that it represents and the Islamists love to attack.<

Let me explain to you that Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha Ataturk was a major war criminal , liar, fraudster and traitor . His so called "secularism" was perhaps the biggest lie of them all . His movement started in May 1919 as a jihad with Friday prayers, imams , Quranic verses , shahids etc. etc. He asked the caliph to leave Istanbul and become its rightful head in Eastern Anatolia . But the caliph bluntly rejected Kemal's offer . He ordered him to come back to Istanbul for trial . When Kemal refused , a death fatwa was issued against him and a bloody civil war was unleashed with the Caliph's Army men slaughtering Kemalists and vice versa . Now after the victory in 1922 and the death fatwa still in force Kemal had no other choice - if he wanted to remain in power and alive - but by all means to get rid of the caliph all the system the caliph's power was based on , i.e. of Islam . It is how our brand new ghazi was forced to abandon Islam under whose standard his war of 1919-1922 had been fought and embrace by necessity and opportunism and not by his idealism "secularism" as the ideology that promised to keep his life and person safe .

Now what was valid for Kemal was an individual case , a vagary of history . It wasn't valid and it isn't valid for all the rest of Turks who were and are nothing but Moslems and whom kemal tried to resmould into his own queer image . The so called "Islamists" just point to this simple fact while the so called "secularists" are too corrupt or mendacious to face the facts and spread their myth so avidly gulped down by the naive West .

> I can't address any more of the angry ramblings in each of your next seven paragraphs, just counting the issues tired me out!!

I hope you got some refreshment counting these paragraphs ( which I haven't counted at all myself ) . It will be a pity if you don't treat me with more standard Turkish propaganda lies like the above . Despite their repetitiveness and the totally missing sense for proportions and probability I am not tired of exposing them . As to the feelings I have doing it , you're right . One can't but hate evil and wickedness as embodied by Turkey , be it Ottoman or Kemalist Turkey.

> But I realize it makes you feel good and certain minds may buy into this stuff.

Wrong again ! Seeing evil and wickedness doesn't make me feel good at all . Quite the contrary ! I feel badly upset and disturbed .

As to the last part of your sentence may I use an Oriental metaphor to comment on it ? Among few sure things there is one which is self-evident , namely that wherever you see a Turk guarding a gate , the gate doesn't lead to reality and truth but in the opposite direction .

Submitting....

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Reader comments (99) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Prejudice against non-Muslims in Turkey [64 words]StasDec 22, 2012 03:06201699
scenarios of islamdom [67 words]CanMay 4, 2012 21:05195440
3Turkey will collapse [8 words]Oguz TolgaSep 17, 2010 16:43178362
1Gulen [37 words]Joseph IIJun 20, 2010 20:20174604
same old story, do it and justify it; the Jihad [180 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 1, 2010 02:56174604
oddly reminiscent? [68 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:14174579
1What really islamized Turkey [195 words]metacristiJun 18, 2010 08:12174525
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [502 words]Hamma MirwaisiJun 14, 2010 14:16174403
1Please find yourself another platform to do advertisement for your book! [273 words]Nihat C.Jul 30, 2010 05:29174403
1The lost of Turkey as partner is not that Important Anymore [473 words]Hamma MirwaisiJul 30, 2010 19:18174403
NOT TRUE [249 words]EKDec 20, 2012 16:16174403
1Islamic nationalism [16 words]Joe Six-PackJun 12, 2010 16:36174309
News Agencies have been Infilterated by Israel's enemies [88 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:36174243
6Boycott Islamist owned GODIVA Chocolates! [37 words]A FriendJun 10, 2010 11:22174166
4Boycott Turkey, the Black Sheep of NATO [540 words]Amy HowardSep 21, 2014 11:36174166
1Question for Dr. Pipes [32 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Aymenn JawadJun 10, 2010 10:13174165
at last the new emerge of turkey in islamic world [57 words]syed mohammad aliJun 14, 2010 12:19174165
2in your arabian dreams [89 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 15, 2010 04:33174165
islamizm [203 words]havasJun 15, 2010 06:22174165
As long as ... [39 words]RobertoJun 16, 2010 14:50174165
1Just like your government wants. [409 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 17, 2010 05:04174165
imperialists [264 words]havasJun 18, 2010 13:35174165
1watch and learn [959 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 20, 2010 02:30174165
1water desalination [44 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2010 04:25174165
i never meant to invade any country [232 words]syed mohammad aliJun 20, 2010 04:26174165
3Another victim of the Turks that invaded the Byzantine Empire [101 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2010 07:57174165
hate [41 words]havasJun 21, 2010 14:55174165
1typisch [152 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJun 22, 2010 05:04174165
3Moslem Imperialism [352 words]giborJun 27, 2010 20:37174165
know your enemy [124 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:58174165
1Where is the 'Outcry" for an "Investigation" of Turkey's aid and support of IHH, a Terrorist organization? [46 words]Sofa SogoodJun 9, 2010 00:30174080
assault on another NATO member [24 words]mythJun 10, 2010 05:10174080
1Not just Cyprus [156 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 18:38174080
1Why is Israel silent about Turkey? Why not support Kurds? [110 words]UMKJun 11, 2010 14:29174080
2Nothing new under the Crescent [190 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:07174080
why does Israel not ... [98 words]mythJun 11, 2010 21:30174080
Israel not helping Assyrians, Kurds, Berbers...? [84 words]SachaJun 18, 2010 06:45174080
1Time for a Radical change in Israeli strategy [172 words]Wise ManJun 21, 2010 17:10174080
Birds of a Feather Flock Together [40 words]Barry BlackJun 24, 2010 14:57174080
Kurdistan and Turkish money in America [682 words]IanusJun 27, 2010 07:40174080
Why Thank You [77 words]Barry BlackJun 28, 2010 17:04174080
Israeli-made drones against the Kurds [883 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:29174080
Who can answer the question ? [50 words]IanusJun 29, 2010 18:46174080
Point Well Taken [90 words]Barry BlackJul 1, 2010 15:10174080
correction? [198 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanJul 2, 2010 18:16174080
Correction Indeed [78 words]Barry BlackJul 5, 2010 14:05174080
Optimism? [98 words]Edward HalperJun 8, 2010 22:30174076
5Militarist tyranny vs. Islamic tyranny [65 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 17:07174076
1Turkish Democracy [101 words]Edward HalperJun 9, 2010 18:35174076
Turkey's Orwellian "democracy" [373 words]IanusJun 13, 2010 02:04174076
1Freedom of Speech [88 words]Edward HalperJun 14, 2010 09:37174076
"Our common struggle against terror and law-breakers" [304 words]IanusJun 15, 2010 18:04174076
2"I am Turkey." [1291 words]IanusJun 16, 2010 17:38174076
Turkey in uncharted waters [126 words]VijayJun 8, 2010 18:19174070
2Terrorist Turkey [206 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:16174070
Gaddafi makes it plain: Turkey to be Trojan horse in European Union [66 words]Jack RJun 8, 2010 18:07174069
Thank you for the info [209 words]AlexJun 9, 2010 02:57174069
Hegemonic Yearnings [68 words]Susan SomervilleJun 8, 2010 16:36174066
2How much Islamic do you need to be to become 'secular' ? 100% ! [1293 words]IanusJun 8, 2010 16:25174065
Ianus, don't let the endless venting get in the way of truth [594 words]LazmanJun 9, 2010 14:34174065
Lazman Turkey is Secular!!! [35 words]spaJun 10, 2010 02:48174065
1The Turkish gate-keepers of "truth" [2747 words]IanusJun 10, 2010 17:21174065
Ianus, you remind me of an Abraham Heschel quote [125 words]LazmanJun 10, 2010 23:43174065
Turkey......don't be quick to judge everyone! [111 words]FroikeJun 11, 2010 10:20174065
1Shortly on brevity [296 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 03:08174065
turkey is not going islamist [63 words]havasJun 12, 2010 15:39174065
1The honeymoon with a barbarian [1170 words]IanusJun 12, 2010 16:21174065
Ianus.....He knows his Turkeys! [50 words]FroikeJun 13, 2010 17:12174065
Ianus, it is quite obvious there is nothing I can say to ease your anger and resentment towards Turks (Secularists or Islamists). [46 words]LazmanJun 13, 2010 17:38174065
1Facts and minds [290 words]IanusJun 14, 2010 04:15174065
Thanks [234 words]IanusJun 24, 2010 16:33174065
1Turkey is just one in a long line of countries to have islam take TOTAL control. [86 words]Phil GreendJun 8, 2010 15:53174064
Don't confuse Turks with Islamists living in Turkey [236 words]LazmanJun 8, 2010 14:00174059
Interchangeability of "Islam" and "secularism" [172 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 16:53174059
Turkey and Islamism [172 words]Kiel HesselmannJun 8, 2010 13:48174058
2What should Israel Do? [113 words]Michael C. Geokas,M.D.,Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 12:38174053
Alliance with the Greeks is More Provocation to Turkey [71 words]M. ToveyJun 9, 2010 19:31174053
2An alliance between Greece and Israel [71 words]Stergios BakasJun 21, 2010 05:50174053
turkey [159 words]havasJun 8, 2010 12:36174052
good for Turkey ? [56 words]mythJun 9, 2010 12:41174052
not the end of life [164 words]cemJun 10, 2010 15:14174052
Russian tourists as a source of financing anti-Russian activities of the Turks [412 words]IanusJun 11, 2010 17:58174052
NOT ENTIRELY TRUE [116 words]ekDec 20, 2012 15:51174052
1Turks are never interested in what is true. [938 words]IanusDec 21, 2012 16:03174052
Greek Propaganda [165 words]MozereDec 22, 2012 06:51174052
1Mozere, I know I am casting pearls before swine. [346 words]IanusDec 23, 2012 14:57174052
Ataturk's Secular Islam Was a Ploy [233 words]HistoryscoperJun 8, 2010 12:27174051
5Ataturk? Islam? [313 words]WhooApr 30, 2011 09:54174051
Implications for the Kurds? [132 words]Carmen Waggoner, Ph.D.Jun 8, 2010 11:10174047
Fantastiic Assessment. [155 words]SvetJun 8, 2010 10:54174046
How to draw the distinction? [109 words]CatJun 8, 2010 10:13174045
I Respectfully Disagree [199 words]Mark D.Jun 13, 2010 22:04174045
3IRAN IS THE ONLY SUPER POWER IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, BECAUSE USA HAS NOT ATTACKED [171 words]F60Jun 8, 2010 09:00174041
1Wahhabi Sunnis [46 words]Solomon TaraganoJun 16, 2010 10:58174041
1Out, Turkey!! [40 words]Godfrey de BouillonJun 8, 2010 08:52174040
Wishful thinking , I am afraid . [321 words]IanusJun 9, 2010 06:07174040
Turk need it as much. [117 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 3, 2010 02:31174040
NATO and EU membership [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mythJun 8, 2010 08:34174038
2turkey [336 words]giborJun 27, 2010 19:48174038

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