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The Truth About Jesus Christ Remains in His Holy Bible - Claims Against His HOLY WORD Cannot Be Substantiated in Truth
Reader comment on item: Barack Obama and Islam: An Ongoing Saga
in response to reader comment: More on Islam and Christinaity with Mr. Tovey

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Sep 21, 2009 at 19:09

The basis and premise of the Truth of Christianity is formed in the thinking and expression (revelation) of the WORD of the LORD. In Isaiah 55, we are told that our (mankind's) thinking is not on the same level of Almighty God's, not even a little. So, in order for mankind to appreciate who the LORD is, only the LORD can provide that revelation. He does so in the Holy Bible, revealed to the Hebrew first, then to the rest of humanity though Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ.

Now, you have conceded that, in fact, and as well as what we see in the world in His execution of His WORD, the LORD can pretty much do whatever He purposes, whatever He has thought. This is ingrained in the Hebrew Holy Bible, for it is inspired by His thought, by His Holy Word. So, as you have wondered, why could He not have forgiven Adam and Eve for their rebellion at the moment of their sin? Let us approach that and then move onto why there is a specific need for a Savior. Remember, this is not this reader's speculation, but the content is extracted from His WORD.

Adam and Eve were not the first to rebel. If the Scriptures are to be understood from the very beginning, we shall see that the first rebellion was Lucifer's, in his willful defiance to Almighty God by trying to make himself god for the others to worship. His judgment was quick (like lightning) and his eternal destiny ensured in damnation. He took a third of the other angels with him, they becoming his 'demons' and accessory to his crimes against heaven. All of this occurred prior to the Creation.

Now there is a gap of knowledge on the human level as to why the LORD made the determination that Creation was necessary for the acts of history we read of in the Holy Bible. But we are drawn then to the six days of the Creation, and the process Almighty God took to get to the beginning of humanity, Adam and Eve. In that they were created initially in a sinless state was because Almighty God was involved personally in their formation, thereby making them perfect. But, just like Lucifer was originally perfect, then fell, so to were the first man and woman subject to their frailties. However, as mentioned earlier, Almighty God had a plan, already thought of, already in motion before the Creation, and ready to execute the moment the Creation was spoken into existence.

Adam and Eve, when first confronted with their rebellion, denied their guilt, the first clue to their fallen nature. By the WORD of the LORD, by their own actions they were guilty of the death penalty Almighty God had already pronounced. They were warned of the consequences, yet they were incapable of repenting in their fallen state and required supernatural provisions for their redemption. A substitute sacrifice was made in the death of certain animals and their skins were used to provide the covering of the newfound nakedness of Adam and Eve. He did not forgive them immediately because they did not seek forgiveness.

Only in believing in the WORD of the LORD after their fall and accepting the provision of the death of the animals in substitution for their penalties did Adam and Eve receive the promise of redemption, to come after their natural deaths hundreds of years later. They had already received the death of the original spirituality they were created with, that of separation from the original relationship they had with Almighty God. This process of redemption by the substitutionary death was a foreshadow of the substitutionary death of Yeshua HaMashiach.

Now as to the Islamic perception that a just Almighty God would hold the original parents responsible, and the children responsible for the sins of the parents, we see this in the description of the fallen nature, that as mankind reproduced in natural form from the beginning, the fallen nature is replicated, and not the sinless nature. Therein lies the need for Almighty God's provision for forgiveness and redemption. You call for justice? A just Almighty God requires death for rebellion to His WORD. What is the provision for payment of that penalty, either the death of the sinner, or in the substitution provided for by a loving and merciful Almighty God in the Person of Yeshua HaMashiach. The Holy Bible provides the answers. Read the Gospels, they tell the Truth better than I can repeat it. As to the situation of a person having his salvation in Yeshua HaMashiach being incapable of sin, as long as any are in these temporal mortal bodies(just as this reader), there is a sin nature that needs propitiation from Yeshua HaMashiach on a continuing basis until the day of final deliverance, provided to that sinner just as the Holy Scriptures dictate. Islam contradicts these facts for the simple reason that the Islamic Prophet did not believe the WORD of the LORD when he had the chance, and dictated his tenets as a replacement.

You, (and others of like-minded sensibilities), make the assertion that the Islamic Prophet met Jesus Christ in heaven, in complete contradiction to what Jesus Christ said Himself. If we are to take Jesus Christ at His WORD, then it would be impossible for the Islamic Prophet to have met Jesus Christ, except in the last days of judgment, to receive the judgment for his unbelief of the Word Jesus Christ had already spoken about the Truth. In actuality, there is no conclusive evidence, written or otherwise in the realm of humanity outside the Hebrew Holy Bible that verifies any such transaction between the Islamic Prophet, that the Islamic Prophet needed to have the same divinity as Jesus Christ in order to prove his contradiction to the Holy Bible, and there is no such revelation, only the Islamic Prophet's contention. Neither is there any heavenly corroboration of the Islamic Prophet's approval by Abraham, since in the mortal realm, such a situation would need better evidence for supporting such a conclusion. It is not there if it violates what Jesus Christ has said.

Now finally, in the same repetitive accusatory tone that is rampant in the festering ideology that says evangelical Christianity supports the evils we see in the world, we see the ignorance of many that question Who Jesus Christ really is by the lack of true knowledge in His Holy WORD. If there is a true desire to understand what the Hebrew Holy Bible says about sinful humanity, the need for a Savior in Jesus Christ to receive forgiveness by believing in His death on the cross for the substitutionary payment of the death penalty, then one needs to take Jesus Christ at His WORD, receive His forgiveness in the love extended by Almighty God through Jesus Christ, and get past all the world's argument against Jesus Christ and seek Him before it is too late.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Title By Date
ISLAMIC JIHAD SYNDROME [88 words]Peter RamseyNov 9, 2009 11:33
Obama Ramadan Speechs clue to his Islamic heart [85 words]jamesSep 22, 2009 22:55
"Wake-up Mr President" [968 words]Lactantius JrSep 22, 2009 07:32
On interpretation of Islamic scripture [105 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 8, 2009 12:56
Understanding True Scripture of the Hebrew Holy Bible is Better Source of Understanding What is Happening to America [801 words]M. ToveySep 10, 2009 17:46
My reply to Mr.M. Tovey [377 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 13, 2009 06:31
Why There is No True Debate Between Chrsitianity and Islam- No True Common Ground When Islam Denies the Truth [1796 words]M. ToveySep 14, 2009 13:49
More on Islam with Mr. Tovey [692 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 16, 2009 14:20
More On Christianity with Mr Debanjan Banerjee [2360 words]M. ToveySep 17, 2009 15:06
More on Islam and Christinaity with Mr. Tovey [939 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 20, 2009 05:13
⇒ The Truth About Jesus Christ Remains in His Holy Bible - Claims Against His HOLY WORD Cannot Be Substantiated in Truth [1164 words]M. ToveySep 21, 2009 19:09
My answer to Mr. Tovey [449 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 24, 2009 15:04
The Christian Imperative Remains the Same [1146 words]M. ToveySep 25, 2009 13:32
Islamic imperative also remains unchanged [875 words]Debanjan BanerjeeSep 27, 2009 13:42
how could we be so blind? [85 words]Jules PostenSep 7, 2009 13:20
Pandering - what Pandering!!! [89 words]JaladhiAug 28, 2009 15:54
See no Truth, Speak No Truth!!! [104 words]JaladhiAug 28, 2009 15:42
Islam's role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings? [44 words]Mladen AndrijasevicAug 28, 2009 02:39
islamic obama is not a huge shock. [105 words]Phil GreendAug 26, 2009 18:25
More on Obama's Speech [384 words]YnnatchkahAug 26, 2009 04:02
pay attention to the detail [79 words]yuval Brandstetter MDAug 25, 2009 00:46
Fasting [44 words]Mohamed EljahmiAug 24, 2009 14:16
Sometimes feasting is better than fasting.... [60 words]PavaAug 26, 2009 13:26
Is fasting beneficial? [203 words]Mohamed EljahmiAug 26, 2009 21:18
Ebionites.... [25 words]PavaAug 27, 2009 17:29
Ebionites [19 words]Mohamed EljahmiAug 28, 2009 16:42
Ramadan and early islam and the Ebionites [1048 words]dhimmi no moreAug 29, 2009 09:05
At night I am Ebionite [16 words]PavaAug 30, 2009 01:19
Islam has solution to every thing [110 words]MansoorSep 9, 2009 00:52
Ramadan in the arctic but again Allah knew about nothing beyond Arabia [524 words]dhimmi no moreSep 10, 2009 07:24
I think it rot [30 words]MansoorSep 10, 2009 23:42
In memory of the victims of the 9/11 atrocity [58 words]dhimmi no moreSep 11, 2009 07:26
Allah cannot be the God of the arctic [76 words]dhimmi no moreSep 13, 2009 06:47
Conjecturing or Having REASONABLE suspicion. [140 words]YnnatchkahAug 23, 2009 23:24
Another message from Obama in his speech- I want some statistics. [320 words]YnnatchkahAug 23, 2009 21:14
Dr. Pipes writings are delights. [231 words]SvetAug 23, 2009 20:43
Obama's Anti-Israel Policy [41 words]LindaJul 27, 2009 22:37
Sorry to dissapoint you Linda [8 words]PavaAug 24, 2009 00:06
Linda is wrong [43 words]IrisAug 28, 2009 09:17
The Course of Obama's Anti-Israel Policy [791 words]Bishop E W Jackson SrJun 29, 2009 11:25
Bishop Jackson- It's good to have someone like you in the trenches with us...G-d Bless You! [11 words]FroikeJul 1, 2009 19:18
Response to comment on article [56 words]Bishop E W Jackson Sr.Jul 3, 2009 09:34
Jew hatred [121 words]KinanaJul 31, 2009 03:44
How Could America Be So Stupid?! [171 words]AlanAug 4, 2009 10:41
Guilt By Association and Undocumented Allegtation and Surmises... [208 words]Burton GoldsteinAug 20, 2009 12:58
Long Live Bishop Jackson- Man of Truth...Man of Vision! [36 words]FroikeAug 25, 2009 18:04
Dhimmitude is cool! [45 words]VernJun 5, 2009 11:01
Obama and Moubarak meet in Cairo: What's next?. [133 words]Morris AbrahamJun 1, 2009 19:40
Demagogy is the domain of charlatans... [219 words]TzionaMay 26, 2009 07:41
Obama is... [30 words]TajMay 6, 2009 13:25
Who Is A Muslim [69 words]Renee LevineMay 4, 2009 06:48
There may be more to Evangelical failure to identify Obama as a "Christian" [91 words]Peter HerzApr 25, 2009 17:01
prophet [46 words]TomApr 29, 2009 22:48
Obama [61 words]Muslim LadyApr 13, 2009 03:25
Obama unpopular [20 words]Think againSep 27, 2009 21:24
Palestinians [185 words]DonSep 28, 2009 07:37
It is what one does with their religion that counts. [35 words]Phil GreendApr 10, 2009 12:47
Obama WAS and IS MUSLIM [124 words]mariaha_14Apr 8, 2009 14:44
Crazy comments [36 words]thebassguyApr 21, 2009 19:03
Yes, I do not believe Obama and is NOT b/c of his Islamic past experience (There are moderate muslijms) [362 words]YnnatchkahApr 4, 2009 11:32
sounds just like my brother who is French has profferred [150 words]Don DeeMar 24, 2009 21:26
Even Devil can be a President of United State [92 words]IfrahimMar 23, 2009 17:24
Islam, a house with no exit! [142 words]B N GururajMar 21, 2009 03:07
Yes, We are a nation of many people, diversity is our strength! [236 words]Renee BurgessFeb 6, 2009 11:22
Religious fools.. [69 words]DONVANFeb 9, 2009 11:02
Actually, Renee [72 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiFeb 9, 2009 11:49
REPLY TO DONVAN'S REPLY TO RENEE BURGESS [392 words]DANIEL REDMONDFeb 11, 2009 20:11
Christianity... [68 words]donvanFeb 16, 2009 16:30
REPLY TO "STRAIGHT TALK LUIGI" [179 words]DANIEL REDMONDFeb 18, 2009 21:51
Daniel Redmon and why secular soceities die [578 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiFeb 19, 2009 20:02
REPLY TO DONVAN'S LATEST LAMENT [266 words]DANIEL REDMONDFeb 19, 2009 20:59
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A FEW MORE WORDS FOR 'LUIGI' [411 words]DANIEL REDMONDFeb 26, 2009 17:52
really... [76 words]DONVANMar 1, 2009 21:02
TIME TO DUST OFF ... [144 words]DANIEL REDMONDMar 2, 2009 23:23
Wrong again Daniel... [89 words]donvanMar 4, 2009 10:10
EXACTLY.. [23 words]DONVANMar 5, 2009 09:26
WELL, NOT REALLY WRONG...... [106 words]DANIEL REDMONDMar 5, 2009 19:49
the best comment [8 words]barry soetoroMar 20, 2009 18:19
Donvan...Have you forgotten the roots of your "Christian Values"....Judaism? [18 words]FroikeJul 1, 2009 19:21
of course... [56 words]donvanJul 3, 2009 05:28
The ongoing saga of our president Barack Obama [306 words]vigilantFeb 5, 2009 22:22
Placate, appease, obfuscate, and lie... [106 words]donvanFeb 3, 2009 16:04
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calling out?? [260 words]donvanMar 1, 2009 17:50
WOW! DONVAN FOUND A DICTIONARY [808 words]DANIEL REDMONDMar 2, 2009 22:46
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Obama cannot be a Muslim [32 words]George WaltersFeb 5, 2009 03:21
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obama Courts Iran, Syria. [31 words]JinnFeb 2, 2009 22:40
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The rules have changed... [52 words]KathyJan 28, 2009 19:47
United States of Islam [72 words]muhammad abdullahJan 31, 2009 18:23
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Wagner [182 words]JamesJan 31, 2009 14:20
The success of terror.. [238 words]donvanJan 26, 2009 09:01
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no longer Christian and middle names [202 words]Rebecca MouldsJan 25, 2009 13:37
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The quickly fading facade [102 words]Rebecca MouldsJan 29, 2009 19:08
What is the problem if Obama is Muslim
[w/response] [112 words]
Debanjan BanerjeeMar 24, 2009 05:43
Obama- God Help AmericA [222 words]TessJan 25, 2009 07:51
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I will rather invest in Israel [60 words]Pradeep MMar 24, 2009 05:46
about mansoor with no sympathy [31 words]racJun 23, 2009 02:54
the dream has materialized [65 words]Keith WilliamsJan 20, 2009 23:08
KEITH-no dream [75 words]btillyJan 28, 2009 01:21
The Man Who Would Unify the World [211 words]NoshariaJan 20, 2009 21:48
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Drooling, slobbering leftist media [65 words]jennifer solisJan 20, 2009 20:03
Geert Wilders, proof again of Britains snowballing gutlessness. [250 words]gordon weareFeb 13, 2009 23:00
Obama - a new Faustus. He gets his gal while the Devil gets his soul. [330 words]IanusJan 20, 2009 12:40
Short Memory !!! [35 words]JaladhiJan 21, 2009 15:49
Awad & Ellison: 8,000 jobs are available now in the Obama administration [160 words]JInn 'n' TonicJan 20, 2009 10:57
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Nah [319 words]Sofa SogoodJan 21, 2009 15:32
Fear Mongering Hysterics -- You Were Right !!! His Middle Name Is Hussein !!! And That's Muslim !!!! [32 words]Sofa SogoodJan 20, 2009 07:27
Obama's Conversion [13 words]NoshariaJan 21, 2009 20:30
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If he was born Muslim, but is now Christian [6 words]LaurenJan 20, 2009 00:47
USA President [157 words]gopelalwaniJan 23, 2009 17:16
Yes [7 words]Imam Ahmed MuhammedFeb 10, 2009 13:53
No [30 words]TomApr 29, 2009 22:53
Our dear Tom tells us that lots of Christians in the Middle East "Have the name Hussain" Really? [106 words]dhimmi no moreSep 3, 2009 07:15
Holla glad to be back!!! OBAMA!!!! [751 words]ahmadzafireSep 4, 2009 20:10
Everyone is born muslim?? Heh, nice try... [156 words]KlewSep 5, 2009 18:59
Klew [124 words]ahmadzafireSep 6, 2009 20:42
dhimmi no more [85 words]ahmadzafireSep 6, 2009 20:55
Christian Arabs do not call their boys Hussain [161 words]dhimmi no moreSep 8, 2009 06:37
The Correct Answer, SUBMISSION [32 words]AnneMSep 9, 2009 12:33
AnneM [88 words]ahmadzafireSep 9, 2009 23:54
dhimmi no more [297 words]ahmadzafireSep 10, 2009 00:33
More islamic delsuions [388 words]dhimmi no moreSep 12, 2009 10:00
Christian Arabs do not call their boys Hussain part deux [468 words]dhimmi no moreSep 13, 2009 07:03
dhimmi no more [1720 words]ahmadzafireSep 13, 2009 09:59
Christians with Muslim names [71 words]Peter HerzSep 27, 2009 16:57
Peter Herz [149 words]ahamdzafireNov 11, 2009 15:17
Another tablighee and the Arabic language [202 words]dhimmi no moreNov 12, 2009 16:09
dhimmi no more [243 words]ahmadzafireNov 13, 2009 18:26
dhimmi no more [1123 words]ahmadzafireNov 13, 2009 18:28
Cherry picking time and the Qur'an really says that Jesus is God and I'm not the author of this poor theology [283 words]dhimmi no moreNov 13, 2009 21:04
Cherry picking time and teaching tablighees al-lugha al-3arabiyya wa al-lugha al-suryaniyya [1193 words]dhimmi no moreNov 14, 2009 12:46
Cherry picking time and teaching tablighees al-lugha al-3arabiyya wa al-lugha al-suryaniyya part deux [179 words]dhimmi no moreNov 14, 2009 16:54
Cherry picking time and the islamic Binity [851 words]dhimmi no moreNov 15, 2009 16:50

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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