Why There is No True Debate Between Chrsitianity and Islam- No True Common Ground When Islam Denies the Truth
Reader comment on item: Barack Obama and Islam: An Ongoing Saga
in response to reader comment: My reply to Mr.M. Tovey

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Sep 14, 2009 at 13:49

To the previous writer, it has been my observation that this forum has been fair and permissive of varying points of view, even some that are intensive in their expressions of what is believed, and that the questions you pose are well within the context of this exchange. In that vein, I have more than a moderate interest in your views, for in similar context, the questions you pose need answering so that there will be no mistaking this reader's intentions by sharing a decidedly narrow view of how the Holy Bible has specific applications in every discussion of this sort. Let us answer the last question first.

This reader does not 'interpret' scripture; rather the Hebrew Holy Bible provides its own basis for the understanding of the Truth contained. In the letter by Peter, we are remonstrated to the fact that the Holy Scripture has no personal interpretation by any individual outside of the power of the Holy Spirit, that He (the Holy Spirit) provides the wisdom for every truth expressed within. Without a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, even that infusion of His power is withheld when any personal attempt to make Scripture fit a humanist perspective exceeds the true intent of the WORD of the LORD.

From that observation, we can see there have been many, countless attempts to use scripture to justify action of human society over the centuries, that going beyond the commandment of Jesus Christ to witness His love and extension of mercy to a sinful humanity, the Holy Bible and the Truth contained there has been incessantly violated for purely prideful human excesses. It is the work of the Adversary to keep mankind in the dark about the love Almighty God has for humanity through Jesus Christ, and in that darkness humanity has not got any chance to break into the light except through a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ as found in the Hebrew Holy Bible.

Next, in your assessment of the brutality found in Muslim majority governments, no argument is proffered here; rather an acknowledgment of the facts as presented from various sources more reliable than this reader confirm your observation from an educated point of view. Having made that statement, by the same observation, if an intelligent assessment of the underlying cause for the malicious governmental attitude is made, saying that the Muslim influences found in those governments are the root cause for their actions, then the question is posed, what resource is Islam purported to have that would make a society so governed more beneficial to the people when imposition of the tenets of the Prophets appears to be the cause for the oppression seen in those societies. More than that, Muslims from other non-Islamic countries seem to take tolerant approach when such oppressive actions are revealed and calls for moderation in those instances are turned away as being anti-Islamic.

As to the assertion that western Christianity is antithetical to Islam, there are more than enough witnesses and historical background to develop just exactly the principles that make such assertions true. We can begin with the very initial argument; that the reason Islam exists is because of disbelief of the Hebrew Holy Scriptures, that the Islamic Prophet dictated the Quran as a replacement to the Holy Bible. In the subsequent attempts to increase the influences of the Quran, it was necessary for the followers of the Prophet to reduce, even eliminate the influences that the Holy Bible had in those times, not very hard to do considering the disrespect the WORD of the LORD was getting. The Holy Bible was itself denigrated, the Savior of whom the love of Almighty God rested, reduced from His rightful place as LORD to a mere mortal against the truth portrayed in the Hebrew Holy Bible. So, if one wants to understand the antipathy predicated by the Islamic perception of who Jesus Christ is, understand that against all arguments to the contrary, Muslim, faux Christian, agnostic, atheistic, pantheistic and pagan alike, Jesus Christ is LORD and to make any pathetic attempt to minimize that Truth such as Islam does, is always, until His return, a source of contention.

Which brings us to your next remark, of the debate, which by your assertion (and many others for that matter), always brings the Christian to question the character of the Islamic Prophet while supposedly kindly appreciation for Jesus Christ is some kind of Islamic way for respect for who they are told Jesus Christ is supposed to be according to the Quran. To simplify, Jesus Christ, the First, Last and Only WORD on Who Jesus Christ really is, comes from the Hebrew Holy Bible. It is His autobiography, and diary, of His relationship with creation, of how He spoke this existence into being, of the failure of Mankind to adhere to the WORD of the LORD in the Hebrew Holy Bible, and the provision of His love through Jesus Christ being sent to the cross as the means for our salvation. Maybe one might think a better explanation may come from Islam, or any other religious distraction from the Truth of the Holy Bible, is required understand why the Quran, or any other substitute, is thought necessary to answer a debate about Who Jesus Christ really is. But by the Muslim community's own admission, it does not appear that Islam can explain it appropriately.

Now the next point, about a supposed problem that Christianity might have with the Muslim community making contributions to the development of the west, which question, in and of itself, supplies the seed for the answer. We will dismiss the assertion of bigotry in the absurd allegation that true Christians view Muslims as inferior beings, which position is patently false, and is a tool of the Adversary to keep imbalance in the human schemes of things. Beyond that is the answer to the question, where we revert to the basic Biblical principle, that all of mankind is in a fallen state, that all are in need of a relationship with Jesus Christ for salvation and eternal life, something Islam dismisses. If the Muslim community is seeking involvement in changing the west to be more in tune with Islam, then it is apparent that Islam must finish what the Islamic Prophet intended, to conquer and bring into submission all contradicting belief systems, or eradicate that which will not submit. In that vein, the next problem you are having with Christians is the claim Muslims make upon Jesus Christ, whether He is the paternal property of the Jewish or Christian Community. Again, that is a position that is answered by the WORD of the LORD, that He is not our property; we ARE HIS! On the basis of faith in Jesus Christ as LORD, His dying on the cross and shedding His precious blood for the sins of the believing humanity (my sins are forgiven by my belief in Him as LORD and Savior), He has redeemed us as His Church and are His possession forever. The Quran chokes on those words.

Now, coming to the next to last your observations (your last one having been addressed first), you present a somewhat skewed perception of the Biblical influences that were part of the formation of the United States of America, whereby a suggestion is made to set aside whatever sources you may have referred to make your point. For having been born and raised under the provisions of the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, and the other framing document that brought forth the only country that can claim a birth in true governmental freedom, this American citizen has a more in depth knowledge and understanding the personalities and actions taken by those who framed the basis of this country, and who gave warnings not to undermine those freedoms with humanist rethinking that would eventually be the cause of the downfall.

Regarding the 56 people who were part and parcel in the development of the republic that became the United States, you, like many of those who try and trivialize the Biblical impact on this country's founding, name the two who were the least faithful in Biblical applications to the formation of the country, yet who conceded the importance of the Biblical impact nonetheless. My education regarding the founding this country takes further input from the correct historical resources, and from that I would rather rely upon a more informed understanding of that process, and from a more prominent Christian perspective found in several of the other founding members, like Roger Sherman. He is someone with whom I have a more sympathetic association, both in political affinity and by being a blood relation. The record shows his participation, fully Christian in his belief and application, in the formation of the American government as being significant, maybe even more so than the aforementioned Franklin and Jefferson, no matter that their images adorn American money or not. It would be a misuse of this forum to explain the Christian influences of all the other 53.

The misconception that there is a 'separation of church and state' in American politics comes from a liberalist mindset that insinuated itself early in the jurisprudence of American civil matters, culminating in the quoting of a Jefferson correspondence that took a specific answer to a specific question and magnified it out of proportion to the truth. For someone of Muslim influences to say the same thing as Jefferson would jeopardize the concept of an Islamic state, for would Islamic law be separated from governing a Muslim society? One would understand that not to be so, for the obvious reasons. Also, for obvious reasons, since America has allowed that separation to occur, the squandering of the freedoms associated with a proper observance of the Constitution of the United States is now upon this country, and exposure to the problems now faced a result of denying that heritage. It is no wonder that Muslims see that weakness and are willing to exploit it. Were it not for the truth of the Holy Bible, this world would not have the choice but to eventually submit.

The Truth of the Holy Bible insures that those who believe in Jesus Christ as LORD are safe and saved in His hands, and His Truth will prevail in the long run. Because of this, there is no real debate that can diminish the practicality of believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior, for He Himself gives us the understanding, the wisdom, the grace and mercy for each of those of us who follow Him, and can do so knowing that there is no sufficient argument, from Islam or otherwise, that can truly replace His love for each of us, now and forever.

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