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وشهد شاهد من اهلها Saudi scholars and the Quranic fragments

Reader comment on item: Study the Koran?

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 27, 2015 at 16:53

Dr. Pipes

I'm sure you are aware that dating of Quranic fragments is notoriously difficult and to make it more complicated is to use carbon dating which in this case would date the vellum but as far as I know not the style of writing, the ink or if this is one or more scribes any one familiar with old Quranic fragments will realize that we are dealing here with two sets of fragments and this one is from Surat Taha and it is not as old as the next fragment and anyone who is familiar with Quranic fragments would date it as in the late second or even third century and here is the link


And here is the really old fragment and even for readers that cannot read Arabic can appreciate the difference


This really predates the first fragment and indeed the Saudis scholars do not believe the carbon dating and this is why I use the Quranic وشهد شاهد من اهلها or we have the testimony of its people (or the Saudis) and here is an article from Bawbait al-Shuruq where a Saudi scholar of al-Makhtutat al-Islamiyya is doubting the dating based on the text itself and he says that the dating is not correct because

1. The Arabic letters have dots

2. The chapters are separated as we can see where Surat Mariam is separated from Surat Taha

And these were late developments in the editing of the Quranic text and anyone who does not get this much does not deserve to earn a PhD degree and here is the article


And here from akhbaar24 a Saudi scholar is saying that these are two different codices as I just mentioned and that the younger fragment is written in Hijazi script which post date the Kufi script which would have been the one used that early because the Hijazi sacript was not used that early

But most disturbing to these scholars is that the carbon dating of the vellum is from 568CE to 645CE which means that by Ms Fedeli's logic these heterogenous codices could have pre-dated Muhammad because the Islamic tradition tells us that Muhammad was born in 570CE and died in 632CE (and yes i believe that all of these dates are later constructs by al-mufasereen in the third century) which means that parts of the Qur'an could have pre-dated Muhammad

Oh next? It will be the word Taha and the canonization of the Qur'an


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