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A few remarks not only on big Nazi-lies

Reader comment on item: Where the Nazi "Big Lie" Endures

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), May 1, 2007 at 17:22

Dr. Pipes writes :

> Fishman's answer revisits World War I, which is not a surprise, as post-cold war analysts increasingly recognize the extent to which Europe lives still under the shadow of that disaster,

I am not so sure what was more disasterous - the war itself, or the Entente victory .

> Fishman begins by noting the topsy-turvy situation whereby Israel is perceived as a dangerous predator as it defends its citizens against terrorism, conventional warfare, and weapons of mass destruction. A 2003 survey, for instance, found Europeans seeing Israel as "the greatest threat" to world peace. How did this insane inversion of reality – the Middle East's only fully free and democratic country seen as the leading global menace – come to be?

With c. 20 000 000 Moslem colonizers and silent invaders in Europe and who knows how many native Europe-haters one can't be amazed about why anti-semitism is so "successful" in Europe.

> Back then, the British government first exploited advances in mass media and advertising to target both the enemy's and its own civilian populations, hoping to shape their thinking.

The USA mustn't be forgotten though . On the contrary , it did assume a leading role in the war time big lie propaganda . The notorious "Committee on Public Information" created by Wilson five days after America had declared war on Germany conducted an ingenious mass campaign to denigrate and demonize Kaiser Germany . Its success was impressive and perhaps even greater than that by the British official propaganda department at Crewe House under Lord Northcliffethe . To mention just a few American "masterpieces" of that time : "The Kaiser : The Beast of Berlin", "Wolves of Kultur" , "Pershing's Crusaders" , " , "To Hell With The Kaiser" or "Home or Hun" . Mass censorship and intimidation was introduced , skeptics were shouted down , denounced or jailed . An American Jewish film director (Robert Goldstein) was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the movie "The Spirit of 76" , where he dared present the good Brits as not so good at all . The fact that he had produced the movie before 1917 didn't help him at all. Nor did the First Amendment . As one analyst put it : " It is fascinating that this phenomenon, often linked with totalitarian regimes, emerged in a democratic state".

> The Central Powers' publics heard messages designed to undermine support for their governments,

Alas , one has to view in that context the famous Balfour Declaration of 2.11.1917 which was not only designed to attract to the entente Cause the Jews in America and in Russia whose support Lenin was so eager to exploit. 100 000 German Jews fighting faithfully on the German side and millions of Jews in the German-occupied territories benefited from the Kaiser German pro-Jewish policy at that time , were also obviously targeted. I think that the Germans never forgot and forgave that .

> while Entente publics were fed news reports about atrocities, some of them false. Notably, the British authorities claimed that Imperial Germany had a "Corpse Conversion Factory" (Kadaververwerkungsanstalt), that plundered enemy dead soldiers' bodies to produce soap and other products. After the war's conclusion, when the British learned the truth, these lies left a residue of what Fishman calls "skepticism, betrayal, and a mood of postwar nihilism."

> This British disinformation campaign had two disastrous implications for World War II. First, it prompted the Allied public to be skeptical concerning German atrocities against Jews, which bore a close resemblance to the imaginary horrors the British had disseminated, so that reports from Nazi-occupied territories were regularly discounted. (This explains why Dwight D. Eisenhower arranged for visits to the concentration camps immediately upon their liberation, to witness and document their reality.)

A. Ponsonby's , " Falsehood in wartime" published in 1928 , one of the most fundamental analyses of propaganda in world war I , confirms this brilliantly :

"It must be admitted that many people were conscious and willing dupes. But many more were unconscious and were sincere in their patriotic zeal. Finding now that elaborately and carefully staged deceptions were practised on them, they feel a resentment which has not only served to open their eyes but may induce them to make their children keep their eyes open when next the bugle sounds."

http://www.vlib.us/wwi/resources/archives/texts/t050824i/ponsonby.html#into

> Second, Hitler admiringly noted the British precedent in his book, Mein Kampf (1925): "At first the claims of the [British] propaganda were so impudent that people thought it insane; later, it got on people's nerves; and in the end, it was believed."

It seems worthwhile to complete the quotation though : "After four and a half years a revolution erupted in Germany whose slogans came from the enemy war propaganda". (A.Hitler , Mein Kampf , p.203-204 , Munich 1935 )

Besides , Hitler speaks of propaganda of both the British and the Americans. He admires both .

> A decade later, this admiration translated into the Nazi "Big Lie" that turned reality on its head, making Jews into persecutors and Germans into victims. A vast propaganda machine then drummed these lies into the German-speakers' psyche, with great success.

As Hitler remarked before : "I have learnt infinitely much from this enemy propaganda". (ibidem, p. 193-194)

> Such groundwork proved its value after Israel's historic victory in the Six Day War of 1967, a humiliating defeat for both the Soviet Union and its Arab allies. The subsequent Soviet-Arab propaganda campaign denied Israel the right to defend itself and inverted reality by relentlessly accusing it of aggression.

Even if the above is true , it is only partly true . Accusing the Soviet Union of doctrinal anti-semitism sounds rather unconvincing , if not unjust . I could quote tens , if not hundreds of examples , which prove the contrary . On the 25 of July 1918 the Soviet of People's Comissars issued a decree "On fighting anti-semitism" where it read : "antisemtic movement and anti-Jewish pogroms are the undoing of the cause of workers' and peasants' revolution" or Lenin's slogan "Antisemitism equals Counterrevolution". Both were treated as capital crimes in Soviet Russia. I can't recall any country where at that time fighting anti-semitism was declared part of the official policy. Of course , it's true that Stalin persecuted the Soviet Jews too. But Stalin made no exceptions. For him it was only absolute power that counted , not being a German or a Jew.

It was the Soviet Union that stood firmly behind the emergence of Israel in 1948 and for a long time supported it. Surely, it was not dictated by any doctrinal philosemitism ( a phenomenon equally unknown to America ) but by hope to have an ally in the struggle for world domination. As it became clear that Israel stands on America's side , the Soviet Union had few choices left . It attacked the friend of its enemy. But this change was dictated by power politics , not inborn anti-semitism in Khrushtschov or Brezhnev. It makes it so different from Moslem-Nazi anti-semitism.

> Precisely as Hitler had analyzed in Mein Kampf, if these impudent claims were at first thought insane, in the end they were believed.

> Today's political madness, in other words, is directly linked to yesterday's.

How true, Dr. Pipes ! If politicians and influential leaders in democracies had known history better , this world would most probably not suffer so much from re-vitalized past political madnesses.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (108) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2two lies in Nazi propanda popular with the islamists [74 words]mythJan 31, 2010 10:10168173
request for reference [37 words]Ichil LEIBNov 20, 2007 16:13114128
1Short term appeasement, long term catastrophe [126 words]T. Rajah-BalajiSep 20, 2007 02:06109247
Where the Nazi " Big Lie " endures [155 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 19, 2007 09:49104047
1the first victim of war is ...the truth [151 words]Phil GreendJun 19, 2007 23:5399604
Britain's propaganda in the First World War [127 words]Daniel Nussbaum II, M.D., FAAPMay 28, 2007 17:2995054
1the biggest amount of documents about nazism and islam on the web [41 words]aval31May 14, 2007 03:4792773
1Compliment to AVA 131 [31 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 17, 2007 23:5992773
a lonely little french resistant on the web. [153 words]aval31May 21, 2007 05:1192773
1Reply to AVA 131 [117 words]SeamusMacNemiMay 22, 2007 08:4792773
Nice link [2 words]orange yonasonMay 27, 2007 23:5992773
LIES HAVE UNFORTUNATELY ENDURED [169 words]V. RAJAGOPALANMay 7, 2007 08:0091955
1Lies have unfortunately endured [164 words]JimJun 26, 2013 16:2891955
Reader Jim is --almost-- right [215 words]PrashantJun 27, 2013 21:1291955
The big picture problem [281 words]moderate MuslimMay 6, 2007 21:4191897
2Moderate Muslim, stop lying! [299 words]MosheMay 8, 2007 09:4791897
2Reply to Moshe [11 words]Seamus MacemiMay 9, 2007 01:5791897
More fantasy from our dear M&M [227 words]dhimmi no moreMay 9, 2007 07:5091897
Seamus, what's wrong with English? [18 words]MosheMay 10, 2007 07:1391897
Comment on Moshe's response to "moderate" Muslim [24 words]orange yonasonMay 28, 2007 00:2391897
1Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al Husseini and Nazism [193 words]Pete FarmerMay 6, 2007 00:5191791
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al Husseini and Nazism [112 words]IanusMay 6, 2007 18:1591791
Reply to Ianus: On Al Husseini [675 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 7, 2007 21:3391791
1On Al Husseini [1865 words]IanusMay 10, 2007 16:1291791
Reply to Ianus: I think we've finally made it [186 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 20:4791791
Where the Nazi "Big Lie"Endures [99 words]S.C.PandaMay 4, 2007 03:3591600
wrong calculus [66 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDMay 8, 2007 16:1091600
Evil men find evil ways [130 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 4, 2007 00:1291586
The Big Lie [292 words]Steven D. CordsMay 3, 2007 23:2391581
1Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism [16 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HarrakMay 3, 2007 22:1691566
Question for Mr Pipes [52 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
uptoface -PhD. Université de Montréal-May 5, 2007 21:4191566
AntiSemitism and AntiZionism [120 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 21:2891566
Asking For Daniel Pipes Opinion [111 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Johanes van BreukelenMay 7, 2007 23:2291566
Reply to Harrak [26 words]EuropeanMuslimMay 9, 2007 00:0991566
2New Europe is anti-everybody [23 words]Paolo FernandiMay 9, 2007 09:4291566
Anti-zionism and anti-semitism [157 words]EuropeanChristianMay 9, 2007 19:5391566
Reply to European Muslim [127 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 22:5591566
Anti-Zionism is a "PC" code for anti-Semitism, while "anti-Semitism" itself is a misnomer. [176 words]MosheMay 12, 2007 17:3291566
to Dr Pipes - where uptoface PhD comes from - Quebec [57 words]James BurkeMay 19, 2007 02:0891566
Where the Nazi " Big Lie " endures : A reply to uptoface PhD. [165 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 19, 2007 10:1591566
2Anti-Israel Reporters Revealed [922 words]AnonymousMay 3, 2007 22:0991563
Sometimes Might Makes Right [219 words]BlackspeareMay 3, 2007 17:0691522
"co-evolution of prejudice" [168 words]SheerahkahnMay 3, 2007 15:5891514
To paraphrase [210 words]donvanMay 3, 2007 17:2191514
Literacy is prerequisite for any serious discussion [17 words]Alexander GutmanMay 5, 2007 23:5491514
Alexander Gutman, [15 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 6, 2007 19:5291514
Well now, Alex, [15 words]donvanMay 7, 2007 09:2091514
where will it all end [43 words]terryMay 3, 2007 15:1791507
The consequence of Jihad. [115 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 3, 2007 23:1891507
Reply to Terry, The destructive power of Hatred [789 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 5, 2007 22:5091507
your translation is wrong [71 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
martien penningsMay 3, 2007 14:3691504
Islamic Al Taquiya is Much Older than Nazism- Muslims will Teach a Lesson or Two to Nazis [87 words]SinghaMay 3, 2007 11:1691485
1Islam As A Souce Of Antisemitism [240 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 5, 2007 23:3191485
what! Chrsitiano-facist... [105 words]HarrakMay 6, 2007 00:1691485
On The Nazi Roots Of Modern Radical Islam [439 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 2, 2007 16:2491385
It all began in Eden [314 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 2, 2007 23:0691385
1"On The Nazi Roots Of Modern Radical Islam" ...A most improbable theory [469 words]IanusMay 3, 2007 17:1191385
Reply to Ianus [489 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 4, 2007 18:2491385
1Reaply to Seamus MacNemi's reply [1079 words]IanusMay 6, 2007 05:3691385
to Seamus [120 words]BillMay 6, 2007 12:1891385
Seamus MacNemi: I have a question for you [29 words]dhimmi no moreMay 6, 2007 17:2091385
Reply to Ianus [693 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 23:0591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [83 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 23:1491385
1Another reply [1415 words]IanusMay 7, 2007 18:3691385
Our dear Seamus you did not answer my question! [21 words]dhimmi no moreMay 7, 2007 18:3891385
Reply to Bill : G-D is ONE [216 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 7, 2007 22:1191385
Our dear Seamus and his big time bogus falsafa [94 words]dhimmi no moreMay 8, 2007 19:1991385
re : Reply to Bill : GOD is ONE [233 words]BillMay 8, 2007 20:1891385
Reply to Dhimmi No More [217 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 8, 2007 23:3291385
Reply to Inspector Ianus [145 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 8, 2007 23:5391385
1Seamus, are you Jewish? [193 words]MosheMay 9, 2007 03:0891385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [131 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 9, 2007 18:0891385
1Reply to Bill? [149 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 9, 2007 18:2891385
1But you still did not answer my question [19 words]dihmmi no moreMay 9, 2007 19:0491385
1Sorry for my mistake ! [213 words]IanusMay 10, 2007 16:2091385
The bogus tawheed again [22 words]dhimmi no moreMay 10, 2007 17:4591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [581 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 19:2791385
TO SEAMUS [119 words]BillMay 10, 2007 20:5591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [105 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 21:0191385
"Close but no cigar"? really? And another cliche from our dear Seamus [112 words]dhimmi no moreMay 11, 2007 18:2091385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [366 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 11, 2007 22:4291385
1Reply to Moshe [981 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 13, 2007 01:5191385
What makes the "Big Lie" endure [184 words]Dr RJPMay 2, 2007 14:0791379
2Islamic lies and manipulations [203 words]G.VishvasMay 2, 2007 14:0491378
The same happened in Egypt 1400 years ago and is still happening [303 words]Egyptian ChristianMay 14, 2007 20:1791378
Blame the people not a religion [33 words]TomFeb 12, 2010 14:0291378
Amalek lives in Saudi Arabia [512 words]Yehuda Ben-Asher, MD Efrat, Gush EtzionMay 2, 2007 13:5391377
Question for Yehuda Ben-Asher, MD Efrat, Gush Etzion [49 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 6, 2007 13:3791377
The Nazi- Arab connection has additional forms [106 words]Shalom FreedmanMay 2, 2007 10:1691369
The Third Reich is Alive [166 words]Caesar M. ArevaloMay 1, 2007 23:4491307
Israel needs English and Arabic TV stations [43 words]Haim BelisowskiMay 1, 2007 23:0491303
Biblically Ignorant [199 words]Richard BowersMay 1, 2007 22:3591301
Biblically Ignorant [127 words]MosheMay 3, 2007 04:5691301
On Biblical Ignorance [445 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 3, 2007 16:4491301
Conversion [69 words]RobJan 13, 2013 12:0691301
2A few remarks not only on big Nazi-lies [1253 words]IanusMay 1, 2007 17:2291264
Re: The Big Lie [79 words]Fred FelserMay 1, 2007 16:4591259
The Big Lie [116 words]Allan GrantMay 1, 2007 15:5691251
Joel Mowbray touches on this as well [87 words]David W. LincolnMay 1, 2007 15:3091249
The Nazi "Big Lie" Endures [197 words]M.D. AnthonyMay 1, 2007 15:1491244
Too Narrow a Focus? [549 words]Ron ThompsonMay 1, 2007 15:0691241
Refugees make good television [523 words]PatMay 2, 2007 13:2691241
inaccurate translation "Juden sehen dich an" [65 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Martien PenningsMay 1, 2007 11:0391204
Arab Fascism [209 words]Edward HalperMay 1, 2007 10:5591202
Truth [178 words]Felipe OrnelasMay 1, 2007 10:0491199
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies... [506 words]Farid H.May 2, 2007 20:0691199
"The Big Lie" [100 words]Donald W. BalesMay 1, 2007 10:0091198
Israelis have bought into the propaganda... now what? [66 words]AaronMay 1, 2007 09:2791192

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