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Reader comment on item: Where the Nazi "Big Lie" Endures
in response to reader comment: Reply to Ianus

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), May 7, 2007 at 18:36

Dear Seamus MacNemi, you wrote :

> Your words drip with your hatred and your contempt for the simple truth. I was born in war and I have lived in war all of my life and I am sick of it, as are all of my relatives near and far.

Do you come from South-Eastern Europe as I do ? If so , then believe me it was the war (both the second and the first ) that most adversely affected my family's fate and broght much suffering and injustice to it. But it was no reason to me to look at war as something metaphysical and theological as you do. The more I thought on that the more I admired what Heraclitus said : "War is the father of all things".

> I speak of MY FOLK. We are a reality and not some myth for you to play with. We are all related at length through marriage and by birth and we comprise a fair segment of the human race on this planet. True, we are not Jews, but that does not mean that we believe differently from the Jews. That we are successful in our endeavours is no matter of mere luck but it is the result of hard work and diligent study.

Sure , it's the foundation of the Protestant work ethics , as Max Weber has demonstrated.

> Your hatred puts you on a par with those who you hate and it is that hate that is the source of all of the evil in this world.

Reading that I had the impression you're an apostle of love . How then can I reconcile your condemnation of hatred with implacable hatred which you show to Christianity as the sentence below proves :

"(...)and the Church be damned."

or

" Anti Semitism was endemic in the Christian community long before the advent of Islam and if there was any true source of antiSemitism in history it was the Christian Church. Christians killing Muslims, Jews, so called Pagans and anybody else who didn't buy into their idea of G-d. Accepting Jesus came to mean accepting tyrrany at the hands of a Christian/Roman/German/Russian/ Englishman, it makes no difference. They're all the same underneath." ?

Can you help me about that ? To my simple mind your two statements are contradictory.

Haven't you made Jesus' mistake ? The sermon on the mountain is charming . But Jesus' attitude towards Judas and the pharisees glaringly inconsistent with the sermon.

> Wars are not won by the defeat of an enemy but only through the winning of a friend..

With respect , dear Seamus MacNemi , I prefer definitely K. Clausewitz' view on that significant topic. It's based on deep knowledge of history and human nature and logic . Yours instead - I am sorry to say - isn't.

> My folk do not seek to rule over others but neither will we be ruled over. We will rule ourselves as we see fit (...)

If so, then I do respect your folk although I can't share their world-view.

> You may think you've done away with the clan system but that does not hold true for other folk. My family is my clan and my clan is my family and we will persist in our thinking as we do despite the modern world notions of some so called elite intellectuals.

I respect your choice .

> Do you think you can excuse the church by blaming the Muslim?

Have you ever tried to study history ?

> Who are you trying to convince anyway?

Someone who would like to check and rationally criticise what I say .

> Shabti Zvi? He was once a great and highly respected Rabbi. A Gaon in fact. His mistake was in indulging in Cabballa to the exclusion of all reason. It drove him quite mad. He began to lose all ability to discern right from left, up from down, night from day. He lived in an impossible dream world and tried to make it a reality in a world which was not yet ready. I can quite understand his predicament. That is what happens to anyone who hopes too much and who is too often hurt. I do not hate him as some do.

Some do ? So you see there are serious differences on how to interpret his career .

> What is all this business of religious warfare any way?

Monotheism is in fact Panodra's box from which reigious wars and intolerance sprang. In polytheism wars of religion are not known , nay unthinkable .

> What is religion but a cloak that men put on to seem to make themselves presentable to G-D? G-d does not care for your religions or your for professions of piety. HE cares only for the quality of your living in the world. HE does not want you bowing and scraping at HIS knees. HE would rather you stand up like a man and be counted for the right. Shabti Zvi saw that much but he was born into a world which could not share his vision and he paid dearly for it.

I am not the right person to direct the above remarks to as I have nothing good to say about religion (although for aesthetic reasons I am fond of polytheistic religions) .

> You cannot make peace by perpetuating hatred.

I'd like to read an explanation on the above contradiction in your statement. (You upbraid hatred and at the same make an ample use of it ) .

> Continually calling up the demons of the past does no one any good.

On the contrary. It helps a lot against amnesia - avery garve condition which is alas so widespread nowadays. We are what history has made of us. If we lose our past we lose our identity. Forgetting the past make we become nothing. We are spiritually dead.

> All that does is to cause those demons to live in the present. It is those demons we must defeat and not the poor benighted souls who are possesed by them.

Tell the Serbs they should forget Kosovo ; tell the Greeks they should forget Ionia and Constantinople. Tell the Jews they should forget Auschwitz ... Tell Seamus MacNemi he should foget his folk's past ... Medice , cura te ipsum!

> Amalek the rodef, the pursuer. It seems that you have chosen to be my personal rodef, my personal Amalek.

I'd rather choose a different archetype and say I've chosen to be Socrates' gadfly .

> You do not come to me as a friend but with your teeth bared in a snarl of contempt.

I come to you with a few questions. If you wish you can answer them. If not , feel free not to reply. Forget my false teeth (I have too many of them alas) and remember that I only show them to Moslems and you're none of them.

> That much is evident in your words. What do you seek to defend? What do you seek to prove?

Rationalism , Enlightenment , the intrinsic value of the the Western civiliaztion whose ruin I see as an even more disastrous and sinister event than the fall of the Roman Empire ... To someone fed on Oriental obscurantism such things don't mean so much perhaps. To me they do.

> I see my words have provoked you which is what I had intended.

Again I wonder how this confession is correlated to your first sentence : "Your words drip with your hatred and your contempt for the simple truth." ? Did you intend to make me angry with "the simple truth"? Very puzzling !

> But I wanted to provoke you to thought and prehaps reflection.

Perhaps we have a semantic problem here. What you call "thought" and "reflection" seems rather to mean "religious obscurantism" to me. I did read the Bible you know and I found the sort of "thought" and "reflection" almost on every page there . And that's why I am so grateful to destiny and history that it ahs preserved a few much better books than the Bible.

> Instead all you have to offer me is your anger. What a pity.

If you haven't found a single rational thought in what I have written , then I fully agree with you , dear Seamus MacNemi . What a pity!

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (108) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2two lies in Nazi propanda popular with the islamists [74 words]mythJan 31, 2010 10:10168173
request for reference [37 words]Ichil LEIBNov 20, 2007 16:13114128
1Short term appeasement, long term catastrophe [126 words]T. Rajah-BalajiSep 20, 2007 02:06109247
Where the Nazi " Big Lie " endures [155 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 19, 2007 09:49104047
1the first victim of war is ...the truth [151 words]Phil GreendJun 19, 2007 23:5399604
Britain's propaganda in the First World War [127 words]Daniel Nussbaum II, M.D., FAAPMay 28, 2007 17:2995054
1the biggest amount of documents about nazism and islam on the web [41 words]aval31May 14, 2007 03:4792773
1Compliment to AVA 131 [31 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 17, 2007 23:5992773
a lonely little french resistant on the web. [153 words]aval31May 21, 2007 05:1192773
1Reply to AVA 131 [117 words]SeamusMacNemiMay 22, 2007 08:4792773
Nice link [2 words]orange yonasonMay 27, 2007 23:5992773
LIES HAVE UNFORTUNATELY ENDURED [169 words]V. RAJAGOPALANMay 7, 2007 08:0091955
1Lies have unfortunately endured [164 words]JimJun 26, 2013 16:2891955
Reader Jim is --almost-- right [215 words]PrashantJun 27, 2013 21:1291955
The big picture problem [281 words]moderate MuslimMay 6, 2007 21:4191897
2Moderate Muslim, stop lying! [299 words]MosheMay 8, 2007 09:4791897
2Reply to Moshe [11 words]Seamus MacemiMay 9, 2007 01:5791897
More fantasy from our dear M&M [227 words]dhimmi no moreMay 9, 2007 07:5091897
Seamus, what's wrong with English? [18 words]MosheMay 10, 2007 07:1391897
Comment on Moshe's response to "moderate" Muslim [24 words]orange yonasonMay 28, 2007 00:2391897
1Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al Husseini and Nazism [193 words]Pete FarmerMay 6, 2007 00:5191791
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin Al Husseini and Nazism [112 words]IanusMay 6, 2007 18:1591791
Reply to Ianus: On Al Husseini [675 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 7, 2007 21:3391791
1On Al Husseini [1865 words]IanusMay 10, 2007 16:1291791
Reply to Ianus: I think we've finally made it [186 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 20:4791791
Where the Nazi "Big Lie"Endures [99 words]S.C.PandaMay 4, 2007 03:3591600
wrong calculus [66 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDMay 8, 2007 16:1091600
Evil men find evil ways [130 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 4, 2007 00:1291586
The Big Lie [292 words]Steven D. CordsMay 3, 2007 23:2391581
1Anti-Semitism and Anti-Zionism [16 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HarrakMay 3, 2007 22:1691566
Question for Mr Pipes [52 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
uptoface -PhD. Université de Montréal-May 5, 2007 21:4191566
AntiSemitism and AntiZionism [120 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 21:2891566
Asking For Daniel Pipes Opinion [111 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Johanes van BreukelenMay 7, 2007 23:2291566
Reply to Harrak [26 words]EuropeanMuslimMay 9, 2007 00:0991566
2New Europe is anti-everybody [23 words]Paolo FernandiMay 9, 2007 09:4291566
Anti-zionism and anti-semitism [157 words]EuropeanChristianMay 9, 2007 19:5391566
Reply to European Muslim [127 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 22:5591566
Anti-Zionism is a "PC" code for anti-Semitism, while "anti-Semitism" itself is a misnomer. [176 words]MosheMay 12, 2007 17:3291566
to Dr Pipes - where uptoface PhD comes from - Quebec [57 words]James BurkeMay 19, 2007 02:0891566
Where the Nazi " Big Lie " endures : A reply to uptoface PhD. [165 words]Jaisingh ThakurJul 19, 2007 10:1591566
2Anti-Israel Reporters Revealed [922 words]AnonymousMay 3, 2007 22:0991563
Sometimes Might Makes Right [219 words]BlackspeareMay 3, 2007 17:0691522
"co-evolution of prejudice" [168 words]SheerahkahnMay 3, 2007 15:5891514
To paraphrase [210 words]donvanMay 3, 2007 17:2191514
Literacy is prerequisite for any serious discussion [17 words]Alexander GutmanMay 5, 2007 23:5491514
Alexander Gutman, [15 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 6, 2007 19:5291514
Well now, Alex, [15 words]donvanMay 7, 2007 09:2091514
where will it all end [43 words]terryMay 3, 2007 15:1791507
The consequence of Jihad. [115 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 3, 2007 23:1891507
Reply to Terry, The destructive power of Hatred [789 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 5, 2007 22:5091507
your translation is wrong [71 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
martien penningsMay 3, 2007 14:3691504
Islamic Al Taquiya is Much Older than Nazism- Muslims will Teach a Lesson or Two to Nazis [87 words]SinghaMay 3, 2007 11:1691485
1Islam As A Souce Of Antisemitism [240 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 5, 2007 23:3191485
what! Chrsitiano-facist... [105 words]HarrakMay 6, 2007 00:1691485
On The Nazi Roots Of Modern Radical Islam [439 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 2, 2007 16:2491385
It all began in Eden [314 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 2, 2007 23:0691385
1"On The Nazi Roots Of Modern Radical Islam" ...A most improbable theory [469 words]IanusMay 3, 2007 17:1191385
Reply to Ianus [489 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 4, 2007 18:2491385
1Reaply to Seamus MacNemi's reply [1079 words]IanusMay 6, 2007 05:3691385
to Seamus [120 words]BillMay 6, 2007 12:1891385
Seamus MacNemi: I have a question for you [29 words]dhimmi no moreMay 6, 2007 17:2091385
Reply to Ianus [693 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 23:0591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [83 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 6, 2007 23:1491385
1Another reply [1415 words]IanusMay 7, 2007 18:3691385
Our dear Seamus you did not answer my question! [21 words]dhimmi no moreMay 7, 2007 18:3891385
Reply to Bill : G-D is ONE [216 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 7, 2007 22:1191385
Our dear Seamus and his big time bogus falsafa [94 words]dhimmi no moreMay 8, 2007 19:1991385
re : Reply to Bill : GOD is ONE [233 words]BillMay 8, 2007 20:1891385
Reply to Dhimmi No More [217 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 8, 2007 23:3291385
Reply to Inspector Ianus [145 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 8, 2007 23:5391385
1Seamus, are you Jewish? [193 words]MosheMay 9, 2007 03:0891385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [131 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 9, 2007 18:0891385
1Reply to Bill? [149 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 9, 2007 18:2891385
1But you still did not answer my question [19 words]dihmmi no moreMay 9, 2007 19:0491385
1Sorry for my mistake ! [213 words]IanusMay 10, 2007 16:2091385
The bogus tawheed again [22 words]dhimmi no moreMay 10, 2007 17:4591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [581 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 19:2791385
TO SEAMUS [119 words]BillMay 10, 2007 20:5591385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [105 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 10, 2007 21:0191385
"Close but no cigar"? really? And another cliche from our dear Seamus [112 words]dhimmi no moreMay 11, 2007 18:2091385
Reply to Dhimmi no more [366 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 11, 2007 22:4291385
1Reply to Moshe [981 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 13, 2007 01:5191385
What makes the "Big Lie" endure [184 words]Dr RJPMay 2, 2007 14:0791379
2Islamic lies and manipulations [203 words]G.VishvasMay 2, 2007 14:0491378
The same happened in Egypt 1400 years ago and is still happening [303 words]Egyptian ChristianMay 14, 2007 20:1791378
Blame the people not a religion [33 words]TomFeb 12, 2010 14:0291378
Amalek lives in Saudi Arabia [512 words]Yehuda Ben-Asher, MD Efrat, Gush EtzionMay 2, 2007 13:5391377
Question for Yehuda Ben-Asher, MD Efrat, Gush Etzion [49 words]Joe Schmoe USAMay 6, 2007 13:3791377
The Nazi- Arab connection has additional forms [106 words]Shalom FreedmanMay 2, 2007 10:1691369
The Third Reich is Alive [166 words]Caesar M. ArevaloMay 1, 2007 23:4491307
Israel needs English and Arabic TV stations [43 words]Haim BelisowskiMay 1, 2007 23:0491303
Biblically Ignorant [199 words]Richard BowersMay 1, 2007 22:3591301
Biblically Ignorant [127 words]MosheMay 3, 2007 04:5691301
On Biblical Ignorance [445 words]Seamus MacNemiMay 3, 2007 16:4491301
Conversion [69 words]RobJan 13, 2013 12:0691301
2A few remarks not only on big Nazi-lies [1253 words]IanusMay 1, 2007 17:2291264
Re: The Big Lie [79 words]Fred FelserMay 1, 2007 16:4591259
The Big Lie [116 words]Allan GrantMay 1, 2007 15:5691251
Joel Mowbray touches on this as well [87 words]David W. LincolnMay 1, 2007 15:3091249
The Nazi "Big Lie" Endures [197 words]M.D. AnthonyMay 1, 2007 15:1491244
Too Narrow a Focus? [549 words]Ron ThompsonMay 1, 2007 15:0691241
Refugees make good television [523 words]PatMay 2, 2007 13:2691241
inaccurate translation "Juden sehen dich an" [65 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Martien PenningsMay 1, 2007 11:0391204
Arab Fascism [209 words]Edward HalperMay 1, 2007 10:5591202
Truth [178 words]Felipe OrnelasMay 1, 2007 10:0491199
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies... [506 words]Farid H.May 2, 2007 20:0691199
"The Big Lie" [100 words]Donald W. BalesMay 1, 2007 10:0091198
Israelis have bought into the propaganda... now what? [66 words]AaronMay 1, 2007 09:2791192

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