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The Palestinians are already downtrodden and disillusioned

Reader comment on item: Why Palestinians Need an Israel Victory

Submitted by Joseph Clogstoun (Australia), Apr 9, 2018 at 22:44

I refer to your article in the Australian newspaper of 24-25 March regarding co-existence with the Jewish state. You asked that people with an interest in the topic write to you.

Your premise that the Palestinians must be crushed before they are forced to the negotiating table is essentially flawed. Contrary to your premise, the Palestinians have been essentially crushed, humiliated and rendered stateless after 50 years of brutal and harsh military occupation. Menachim Begin (a survivor of the Warsaw Ghetto) must be turning in his grave with Israeli running the largest concentration camp in the world - Gaza. The state of the Palestinians who live in areas A and B are no better, rogue settlers protected by the IDF, embedded in the West bank are harassing the Palestinians by occupying illegal settlement, destroying their houses, olive trees and the other crops of the Palestinians. Israeli has the 5th most powerful army in the world, provided with the latest technology by the US. This is no match for Palestinians fighting back with stones.

I think we both essentially agree that under the oleaginous Nethanyahu the two state solution is essentially dead and buried. Yet every other country, including Australia but not the US, naively insists that this be the basis for any conclusion of an agreement. The international community, who along with the UN are seen as anti-Israel, quite rightly insists that Israeli freeze all settlement activity (which is incidentally a violation of the Geneva Convention) and that the formal borders of the two states be based on 1967 lines. Nethanyahu has rejected both these protocols. He is not interested in peace, only maintaining the status quo and grimly holding on to his position. Nethanyahu's government is the most right wing in history with an agenda driven by the most extreme elements of Israeli society, including the rabid settlers led by Nafthali Bennett and Liberman.

I served in Saudi Arabia as an Australian diplomat, and I have always wondered why the Saudis were never pro-active about the plight of the Palestinian people. The subtle message i received was "the demographic time bomb". I see their point. The status quo is unsustainable. In another decade or so a third of Israeli society will comprise of Heradim, a group that contributes little or nothing to the national economy. On the West Bank the Palestinian population will outnumber the half a million settlers and will remain poor and impoverished. Nethanyahu, instead of trying to address long term problems, is busy trying to quash the remaining bastions of dissent within Israel and the West Bank. I must point out that contrary to popular opinion in the US, Israel is not a democracy. It is a theocracy and this penetrates to the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The central contradiction of the State of Israel is "democracy for some and dispossession for others". Under this so called democracy the 1.6 million Arab-Israelis are poor than its Jewish citizens and face discrimination in housing, land allocation, employment, education and services. How can the Palestinian leadership recognise "Jewish state" a demand sprung by Nethanyahu at Annapolis.

As the Israel economy grows, the economic disparity between the the respective populations increases dramatically. For instance, if this is not an indication that the Palestinian population is not crushed, GDP per capita in Israel in 2015 was $37,700, the West Bank $3,700 and Gaza $1,700. As a privileged white academic living in the US, you don't have put up with the daily tribulations of getting through Israel military check points to seek employment and a whole range of services not available on the West Bank, including medical treatment. The more the Palestinian people are alienated and disposed by the State of Israel, including the jailing of children as young as 7, the more they are prone to violence and the scope for more radical solutions. I agree that as Abba Eban said,"the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity", it is time for new Palestinian leadership to take over.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Daniel Pipes replies:

"As a privileged white academic living in the US, you don't have put up with the daily tribulations of getting through Israel military check points to seek employment and a whole range of services not available on the West Bank, including medical treatment."

That's rich. And as a privileged former Australian diplomat, you don't have to put up with the Palestinians' murderous rampages and missiles. "

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Reader comments (82) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2AN IDEAS CONTEST FOR THE ISRAEL VICTORY PROJECT [240 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Edmond RichterApr 22, 2018 05:57242822
1Dear Mr. Richter [83 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMay 1, 2018 05:20242822
2Guiding the perplexed our dear Deb! [244 words]dhimmi no moreMay 2, 2018 07:35242822
1Maginot Minded [44 words]Reynald de ChatillonMay 9, 2018 01:52242822
1Actions for victory/ Des actions pour la victoire [248 words]Edmond RichterApr 22, 2018 05:21242821
4One of the best articles you've written in a while on the subject [361 words]There is NO Santa ClausApr 21, 2018 15:18242813
The Palestinians are already downtrodden and disillusioned [671 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Joseph ClogstounApr 9, 2018 22:44242719
Menachim Begin and the Warsaw Ghetto. [10 words]Don DurhamApr 14, 2018 06:08242719
1Response to Joseph Clogstoun. [170 words]Reynald de ChatillonJun 20, 2018 02:47242719
2Pipes is clearly correct [229 words]John JaffeApr 3, 2018 13:37242662
2Palestinian Peace? [97 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Sohel BahjatApr 2, 2018 12:55242643
3Yes, even Nominal reform is good [110 words]PrashantApr 3, 2018 07:46242643
1Real gems from our dear Sohel Bahjat [185 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2018 08:42242643
3NOT A CHANCE IN JANNAH! [114 words]UNCLE VLADDIApr 1, 2018 17:05242636
1Rethink it, Unk! [102 words]DajjalApr 2, 2018 17:28242636
1India v. Pakistan = Israel v. Palestine [523 words]LudvikusMar 30, 2018 16:49242621
1Taqqueiyah [26 words]S. LevyMar 27, 2018 12:01242595
3Antidote to the Taqqueyah dogma [24 words]PrashantMar 28, 2018 21:04242595
1Cowboys, and the American Dream! [190 words]Michael SMar 27, 2018 05:32242593
1Since the Arab-Palestinians are inciting to commit terror and violence. [385 words]YJ DraimanMar 27, 2018 04:35242591
7The Myanmar Option. [431 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Reynald de ChatillonMar 27, 2018 00:01242586
2Myanmar is serving the Islamic medicine to Muslims [31 words]PrashantMar 28, 2018 20:59242586
3Identify immoral element [121 words]DajjalApr 1, 2018 02:53242586
Israel Wins [93 words]LucilleMar 26, 2018 10:12242582
3A defeatist [309 words]Daniel RubioMar 26, 2018 08:20242580
1Islamic world needs legitimate wars [385 words]PrashantMar 27, 2018 00:50242580
2How do you expect to implement this? [153 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HarryMar 25, 2018 20:20242577
5Victory over Palestinian Muslims [684 words]PrashantMar 25, 2018 12:34242576
3Face it - No Arab-Palestinian state west of the Jordan River [584 words]YJ DraimanMar 25, 2018 02:33242573
2Defeat of "Palestinians" [107 words]Paul WinterMar 24, 2018 21:08242572
1Pal-Arab defeat is not enough, it should lead to a 3-State Solution composed of Israel, Egypt (for Gaza) and Jordan (for parts of the West Bank), with 1948 refugees absorbed by booming Saudi/Gulf economies [543 words]G MarcusMar 24, 2018 17:32242570
4Criminal Palestine Should Be Destroyed [181 words]DaveMar 24, 2018 16:50242568
Dear Dave there is no military option [93 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 3, 2018 03:15242568
Adopting the Untenable Position That Militant Activism Will Not Prevail...? [229 words]M ToveyApr 4, 2018 15:24242568
LOL, you are a comedian [219 words]Peter HallJun 12, 2018 09:48242568
Dear Mr. Hall [381 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJun 13, 2018 06:43242568
1Our dear Deb but Allah tells the Jews to live in the promised land that he promised them and they should expel its occupants! [88 words]dhimmi no moreJun 13, 2018 14:01242568
Another question for our dear Deb! [70 words]dhimmi no moreJun 14, 2018 05:49242568
Poor Debanjan - Wrong again! [601 words]Peter HallJun 14, 2018 11:59242568
1Opportunity was missed after 1948 [66 words]George CohenMar 24, 2018 14:17242564
1Convert or leave. [75 words]Reynald de ChatillonMar 29, 2018 00:41242564
3Already Done That [101 words]Barry BlackMar 24, 2018 12:29242563
5But what does an Israeli "Victory" mean in terms of Strategy, Tactics, and Policy? [437 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
LudvikusMar 24, 2018 11:36242561
1Amen, Realism It Is [109 words]Gary SackMar 24, 2018 16:19242561
Israeli victory [72 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMar 27, 2018 23:36242561
Dr. Daniel Pipes Explicxitly means "No Colonialism Over the Palestinians" [306 words]LudvikusMar 28, 2018 16:43242561
2I will take a leaf from Debanjan Baneree's book [159 words]PrashantMar 28, 2018 20:56242561
Our dear Deb is back! [245 words]dhimmi no moreMar 29, 2018 11:24242561
Q5-21:27 Did not much make sense [223 words]PrashantMar 29, 2018 19:01242561
Dear Ludvikus [170 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMar 30, 2018 03:37242561
1Dear Prashant [87 words]Debanjan BanerjeeMar 30, 2018 03:54242561
Logic and our dear Deb? Allah and the Jews his favorite people! [144 words]dhimmi no moreMar 30, 2018 14:06242561
Q5:21-27 explained by al-Tabari part 1/2 [1412 words]dhimmi no moreMar 30, 2018 14:21242561
2Debanjan Banerjee asks me about hypocrisy [468 words]PrashantMar 30, 2018 20:13242561
1Lying by omission is the biggest tool used by Islamic apologists [153 words]PrashantMar 30, 2018 20:30242561
Have it right. Sura 5:32 is a decree for jews and not for muslims [49 words]LeopoldMar 31, 2018 05:05242561
Q5:21-27 explained by al-Tabari part 2/2 [380 words]dhimmi no moreMar 31, 2018 09:08242561
1Malala Yousafzai is Jewish Israel, and Pakkistan is Muslim Palestine. [195 words]LudvikusMar 31, 2018 17:44242561
The saga of Allah and the Palestinians: Q5:21-27 [466 words]dhimmi no moreApr 1, 2018 08:39242561
Truth is more than Q 5:21-27 [28 words]LeopoldApr 3, 2018 01:54242561
You endanger the liberal Muslim women [141 words]Debanjan BanerjeeApr 3, 2018 03:12242561
Our dear Leopold and Q2:187 [155 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2018 13:36242561
More gems from our dear Deb! And the failed state of Pakistan [122 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2018 13:51242561
Our dear Leopold: Stay focused! [79 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2018 13:57242561
Iran's Supreme Leader 'Makes Hitler Look Good' - Quote by Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic [142 words]LudvikusApr 3, 2018 14:37242561
In differrent qurans the number on suras differ [41 words]LeopoldApr 4, 2018 15:40242561
I'know it's from Talmud [41 words]LeopoldApr 4, 2018 15:47242561
Yes allah assigned the promised land to the jews [97 words]LeopoldApr 4, 2018 15:56242561
2Logic defies Mr Debanjan Banerjee again [242 words]PrashantApr 4, 2018 23:20242561
2The religion of peace! [121 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2018 13:44242561
For Leopold: إذا احتل شبر من أرض المسلمين is a Hadith! [142 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2018 14:06242561
Where is the link to the verse? I'm waiting [118 words]dhimmi no moreApr 5, 2018 14:11242561
More gems from our dear Leopold [26 words]dhimmi no moreApr 6, 2018 06:53242561
for dhimmi no more [64 words]LeopoldApr 6, 2018 14:35242561
2Attention Leopold and Ayat al-Sayf [311 words]dhimmi no moreApr 10, 2018 07:38242561
Thank you for your answeres dhimmi no more [63 words]LeopoldApr 10, 2018 14:22242561
1Poor Debanjan - Wrong again! [122 words]Peter HallJun 14, 2018 12:07242561
2Australian movement [72 words]AdamMar 23, 2018 17:50242552
2DP idea will not come into reality [357 words]LeopoldMar 24, 2018 10:27242552
2Illusion of Peace. [145 words]Reynald de ChatillonMar 28, 2018 01:06242552
1For our dear Leopold and al-Kalam al-Mukarrar and Variant Traditions [330 words]dhimmi no moreApr 10, 2018 08:57242552
Israel's Victory is Already Seen: You Just Have to Know What to Look For. [178 words]M ToveyMay 14, 2018 13:21242552

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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