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Of Muslims and Nazis, etc.

Reader comment on item: Ban the Burqa, Allow the Burkini
in response to reader comment: So let's ban black Nazi uniforms but not the grey ones!

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Aug 24, 2016 at 11:12

Uncle Vladdi,

What you seem to be saying, is that the burkini should be banned because it is a Muslim practice, period. You also compared Islam to Naziism. I understand both points. Taken together, they say,

"Islam is a threat to [Western countries? The Jews?] that is akin to Naziism; and the way to protect [the West? Jews?] from it, is to ban obvious Islamic practices."

This is a rasonable doctrine, and a reasonable practice: It is what the Saudis and certain other Islamic countries practice toward Christians and Jews; it is what the American Christians practiced against the Mormons; it is what Israel practices against proselytizing Christians; what China practices against non-state-controlled churches, what the Jewish leaders practiced against Jesus and... ironically, what the Nazis practiced against the Jews.

The important distinction in all of the above, should be whether concern over these groups is justified.

The Saudis and others: Are they justified, in fearing that Christians and Jews might get a toehold in their country? Or that allowing them in would cause a violent reaction from their Wahabbi mullahs? Perhaps they are.

The American Christians: Were they justified, in attacking the Mormons at Nauvoo and Beaver Island, and killing their leaders? The mobs thought so; and the government officials stood by and let it happen. Those officials were certainly justified in fearing that the Mormon presence would lead to anarchy and violence; because that's exactly what happened.

What is happening in Israel, with Yad l'Achim thugs following Messianic Christians around and trying to keep them from practicing their religion (which commands that one proselytize): Are the Israelis justified, in thinking the Christian presence will corrupt the Jewish nature of the Jews? I don't know. Ask a bikini-clad Jewess in Tel Aviv about "corruption". That said, perhaps they are justified.

The Chinese government: Are they justified, in arresting Christian leaders, and removing crosses from churches? Recall that some 170 years ago, some 50 million people died in a syncretist Confucian-Christian uprising. Perhaps they are justified.

The Jewish leaders. Were they justified in turning Jesus over to the Romans, to have him killed? Ostensibly, they did this because they were afraid his followers would foment an uprising against Caesar. Were they justified and genuine? Those same leaders ultimately did foment an uprising against Caesar, so I doubt that they were genuine; but many Jews today think they were justified.

Finally, the Nazis: Were they justified in standing by, while thugs destroyed synagogues and attacked Jews? That situation was the same as the attacks on the Mormons, over 100 years earlier. Were they justified in trying to eradicate the Jews, so repeat disturbances wouldn't happen? Perhaps they were. Who am I, to judge?

You must see, there are some questions involved here; it isn't a black-white situation (or black-grey, as in the Nazi uniform example you gave). I won't presume to know the answer. Daniel has his opinion, and you have yours; and I think the two are different.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (46) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
UK police may let Muslims wear burka as uniform in effort to boost diversity [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
FormerStudentSep 9, 2016 15:47232477
modern kit [64 words]Mohammed Waza Khiddif id'UllahSep 15, 2016 03:21232477
Re: Your comment [132 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jonathan KeilerAug 29, 2016 17:23231944
1Hillary would look fabulous in Burkini [140 words]Bakrdi151Aug 28, 2016 03:25231863
1Burkini looks ugly [96 words]PrashantAug 27, 2016 22:07231846
power over reason [60 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
mythAug 26, 2016 20:28231805
Cote d'Azur and the socially undesirables [75 words]mythAug 26, 2016 20:25231804
1You are refreshingly harsh towards Muslim sharia [120 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
BillAug 25, 2016 09:15231736
Nazi symbol [19 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
marlanAug 25, 2016 06:10231734
Propaganda [73 words]BenAug 24, 2016 15:03231703
Burkini [43 words]Steven Boldovitch (Liberal member /Toronto East-York)Aug 24, 2016 13:06231698
Burkini [178 words]David MCAug 24, 2016 08:29231681
1With respect, a Strong Dissent [435 words]Ron ThompsonAug 23, 2016 22:15231665
Yes! [13 words]Ruth SklarAug 23, 2016 20:26231663
4So let's ban black Nazi uniforms but not the grey ones! [714 words]UNCLE VLADDIAug 23, 2016 19:37231662
1Muslim garments are a uniform for IFF [70 words]DavePAug 24, 2016 05:51231662
Of Muslims and Nazis, etc. [498 words]Michael SAug 24, 2016 11:12231662
my Burkini comment [10 words]Joan RibiDec 8, 2016 12:22231662
Burkini [2879 words]Iftikhar AhmadAug 23, 2016 16:10231653
Burkini or Bust [106 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
WilliamAug 23, 2016 15:42231651
Let's compromise [15 words]Abu NudnikAug 23, 2016 14:35231647
1Dr. Pipes, you rather miss part of the point. [263 words]Anon.Aug 23, 2016 13:49231644
1100% support the BAN!!! [64 words]ullaAug 23, 2016 13:06231643
1Burquinis AND Burquas should be banned [304 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Lorna SalzmanAug 23, 2016 12:40231641
2Re: Burquinis AND Burquas should be banned [46 words]WHSAug 27, 2016 03:40231641
ban on burkinis [80 words]KikaAug 29, 2016 14:20231641
Homophobia is deplorable and has nothing to do with the burquini issue [140 words]Lorna SalzmanAug 30, 2016 11:15231641
Christians also wear "burkinis" [88 words]Peter ChewAug 23, 2016 11:19231631
Birkini in Saudi Arabia? Never [96 words]dhimmi no moreAug 26, 2016 08:46231631
waiting for France to lead the way and ban all things Islamic [30 words]OliverAug 23, 2016 10:26231629
4The burkini and the burqa AND the veil are all flags of conquest [61 words]Bernado StevensAug 23, 2016 10:13231628
Conquest? Really! [167 words]stevenlSep 1, 2016 10:18231628
L' opinion d' une Musulmane Francaise. About male androgenic chauvinism!!! [704 words]stevenlSep 6, 2016 16:44231628
Islamic Gear A Kind Of Rorschach Test [186 words]DaveAug 23, 2016 09:56231624
ban burka [101 words]dianne gallenAug 23, 2016 09:55231622
Sometimes I wish more women would wear the burkini ... [25 words]David KoralAug 23, 2016 09:32231618
Fiddling while Rome burns [95 words]DavePAug 23, 2016 09:17231616
1Are Burins safe in the water? [95 words]dhimmi no moreAug 23, 2016 08:34231614
Washington's allies [263 words]PerraultAug 23, 2016 03:57231609
1Sense at last [62 words]ECAWAug 23, 2016 02:10231608
Today, the Burkini... [52 words]Mal CitronAug 23, 2016 01:14231607
3Missing the point [53 words]stevenlAug 23, 2016 01:10231606
absolutely right [12 words]gray manAug 30, 2016 06:26231606
Could a Burkini become a BOOM-KINI? [48 words]Mike RamirezAug 22, 2016 23:40231605
3Yes, I agree. What the French are doing makes no practical sense. [88 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael SAug 22, 2016 22:11231603
yes agree [51 words]angela greerAug 23, 2016 15:40231603

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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