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Experience and governmental lies

Reader comment on item: Qaddafi's Ignominious End
in response to reader comment: Freedom of Religion in Lebanon

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Nov 6, 2011 at 20:15

BB King wrote :

> I cited Ibn Warraq, the brilliant Muslim apostate and champion of humanism who claims that Lebanon rejects the Muslim law of apostasy and accepts people for changing their faith within its territory. You conveniently ignored this passage and failed to reply to it, something you accuse me of doing to you. So here is the link again for your kind perusal http://www.iheu.org/node/1541. <

Speaking of kind perusals, may I by way of exception quote myself here : "I don't doubt that there are parts of Lebanon where Moslems are in overwhelming minority and where some rudimentary tolerance can be found, but I thought we were talking about Lebanon a whole, weren't we?"( Paper democracy and the justice system of the United Arab Emirates "seven places above the USA" )

You assert that this is something that shows I have ignored ibn Warraq's words, don't you? To me it seems not to be the case and, frankly, I can't believe that in West Beirut or Hezbollah-controlled South Lebanon you will find any apostates alive.

> Furthermore, I think the U.S. govt. knows more than you and the U.S. claims the Lebanese govt. protects religious freedom in practice (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2010/148830.htm) and there is no evidence of forced religious conversions within Lebanon. Now is the U.S. government with its extensive intelligence networks lying to us? If so, why should I believe you over my own govt.?<

May I congratulate you? You are the first American I come across that believes in the veracity of the statements by its government, who thinks that its officials are not corrupt and lying careerists on the payroll of big business sponsoring their election campaigns, who are not ready to betray and sell any ideal for personal and corporate benefit and enrichment and who really care for the well being and happiness of the common American people !!! If I am not mistaken you're a rare specimen of a true believer in politics in these cynical and dark times of unbelief based on sad experiences of real political life .

As to my personal experience I have heard your (and my) governments lie and cheat so often that whenever I hear something announced by the government(s) I consider it automatically as a lie until it's proven not to be so by other sources. I can give you an example of insolent lie coming from " extensive intelligence network" you seem to praise so much. In February Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told a congressional hearing that "... Muslim Brotherhood is ... a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried al-Qaeda as a perversion of Islam". Well, if you rely on such liars like him, then you may come back and argue in your next post that the Muslim Bortehrhood is "a largely secular group that has eschewed violence and decried al-Qaeda a perversion of Islam" and so there are indications to believe that if the Muslim Brotherhood joins hands with Hezbollah in Lebanon the net result will be a more secular and peaceful Lebanon.

In general almost all the governmental comments on the so called "Arab spring" have been an awkward and primitive lie and I reacted very allergically to it.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (66) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Tragic event [30 words]LoraOct 27, 2011 08:43190446
3democracy in the arab world [57 words]swapnilOct 26, 2011 10:31190412
3the people's tyrant [176 words]RNOct 24, 2011 04:25190329
12Where are Libya's 144 tons of gold ? [186 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 16:40190316
Similarities between Qadhafi and Jugurtha [57 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:17190316
1To find something similar to Gaddafi in the western world, Debanjan has to go back 2000 years [99 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 02:09190316
8The Test of the Century [109 words]Michael Hanni MorcosOct 23, 2011 14:42190313
3Qaddafi's Ignominious End [187 words]Balarabe AbbaOct 22, 2011 09:11190276
Qaddafi's Ignominious End [63 words]Balarabe AbbaOct 21, 2011 14:01190250
3Qaddafi's Ignominious end [135 words]Nenette GrunbergOct 21, 2011 10:50190245
3Nothing to rejoice [115 words]car313Oct 21, 2011 05:01190238
8What about directing worldwide jihad against China ? [192 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 18:21190238
2China's "Muslim Problem" doesn't need US manipulation [542 words]Kepha HorOct 21, 2011 23:17190238
While I'm at it... [52 words]Kepha HorOct 21, 2011 23:19190238
1Democracy and Islam [110 words]JoshOct 22, 2011 00:39190238
1You have a point there [122 words]car313Oct 22, 2011 05:31190238
4Why another enemy? The old one is still there. [596 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 15:01190238
4Spectators,not actors [326 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 16:18190238
3How to profit from meddling with China's "Islamic problem" ? [716 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 18:46190238
1The next bogey is... [12 words]KeithOct 23, 2011 23:55190238
Communism was not a bogey [443 words]PrashantOct 24, 2011 00:05190238
Nice Litany, but... [71 words]Kepha HorOct 25, 2011 17:55190238
4Whose litany do you mean? [531 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 07:00190238
Re my Comments [439 words]Kepha HorOct 26, 2011 21:06190238
Re my Comments [136 words]Kepha HorOct 26, 2011 21:11190238
11Chechens were Christians. [644 words]IanusOct 29, 2011 12:38190238
3Ever heard a Moslem blame Islam for anything ? [889 words]IanusOct 29, 2011 19:26190238
3Islam -the biggest killer of Christianity [1120 words]IanusOct 30, 2011 08:27190238
1Have I ever heard a Muslim blame Islam for anything? [199 words]Kepha HorNov 3, 2011 21:43190238
1A quibble [83 words]Kepha HorNov 3, 2011 21:48190238
2What America will you fight for ? [855 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 19:32190238
1What Will You Fight For, Indeed, America? [580 words]M. ToveyNov 7, 2011 18:04190238
Ok, Ok, [485 words]Kepha HorNov 7, 2011 21:48190238
Maybe... [36 words]Garry LockwoodNov 17, 2011 18:30190238
3Maybe... [452 words]IanusNov 20, 2011 15:20190238
Don't Forget [134 words]BB KingNov 23, 2011 22:47190238
5"Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi" [1639 words]IanusNov 30, 2011 14:13190238
3Qaddafi [66 words]Nelson D'SilvaOct 21, 2011 04:08190236
Seconding Nelson D' Silva's voice [197 words]JoshOct 22, 2011 15:37190236
4Canadian -Nato Factor [130 words]Michael Hanni MorcosOct 20, 2011 23:03190223
2QADAFFI'S END [45 words]samOct 20, 2011 22:27190222
1No Pluralism in Libya [86 words]jdOct 20, 2011 22:09190220
2Or ... [39 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 19:39190220
6I hope I'm wrong, but... [79 words]Peter HerzOct 20, 2011 20:25190212
3Peter Herz's hope is true [120 words]PrashantOct 20, 2011 22:18190212
7We all need to be pessimistic about Libya [63 words]JoshOct 21, 2011 00:43190212
6Theory of games and Qaddafi [774 words]IanusOct 21, 2011 17:54190212
2Are you aware that Lebanon is a democracy in the MiddleEast, not just Israel? [71 words]BB KingOct 21, 2011 22:46190212
4Mixing up form and content [285 words]IanusOct 23, 2011 14:09190212
2Disagree [83 words]BB KingOct 23, 2011 20:20190212
4What content does 'confessionalism form of government' convey in real life ? Theocratic pluralism ? [622 words]IanusOct 25, 2011 02:50190212
2Wrong Precedent to Establish Democracy [124 words]BB KingOct 25, 2011 20:47190212
4Not so wrong as you think [661 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 19:03190212
4Answer [66 words]BB KingOct 26, 2011 23:25190212
4Unsatisfactory answer [411 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 07:48190212
2Set in your mindset [175 words]BB KingOct 28, 2011 22:13190212
3... or perhaps in yours ? [1177 words]IanusOct 30, 2011 19:01190212
5A few observations [288 words]BB KingNov 1, 2011 00:46190212
2Paper democracy and the justice system of the United Arab Emirates "seven places avove the USA" [992 words]IanusNov 3, 2011 18:33190212
1Thanks, Prashant [33 words]Peter HerzNov 3, 2011 21:50190212
1Thanks for the moral support... [35 words]Peter HerzNov 3, 2011 21:54190212
2Freedom of Religion in Lebanon [240 words]BB KingNov 6, 2011 17:43190212
2Experience and governmental lies [543 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 20:15190212
2You're welcome [167 words]IanusNov 6, 2011 20:44190212
Last Dictator ? [44 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
nashoushOct 20, 2011 16:45190202
2Not to mention the pro-US dictators [38 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:19190202

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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