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Recent events in Canada show that if you don't pose a threat, your children just might.....

Reader comment on item: Does the [New York] Police Department Profile? Should It?
in response to reader comment: facism yay

Submitted by Tyler (Canada), Jun 30, 2006 at 19:59

"how many muslim soldiers are there in the army who are loyal? Did that guy even do it for religious reasons or was he getting personal revenge or some non-"religious" reason? I don't know."

Yes, you don't know.

"Yes, make your enemy even bigger, its all muslims now not just a minority alienated from the mainstream"

Most muslims are the author of their own alienation from the mainstream by ' ghettoizing' their existence in free states....look at France, Holland, Belgium, Germany, for example. You and Ahmad may be the exception, as the current situation in Europe and around the world shows, integration is not the norm when it comes to muslims.

"I am a teacher, my wife is a surgeon, we participate in our democracy and oppose the attacks on it, why in God's name should we be locked up or forced to move away when we have ties in Australia going back nine generations with the birth of our daughter? Why should our property be confiscated to appease a bunch of chickens like you who would sell their liberties for a few more minutes of life?"

A few questions about your faith: As a muslim I assume you believe in 'absolute truth' as opposed to reletavistic truth so prevelant in western society today. Does your absolute truth come from the Koran? If not, then from where do you derive your tenents of faith and doctrine? Do you pick and choose what you want to believe based on what feels right or comfortable to you? Do you hold the Koran to be true and without any error in it's entirety? What are your views on countries not yet under Islamic rule? I'm curious as to what a moderate muslim believes and how their faith is justified verses the wahabiist view. What is your views on Jews? Christians? Final judgement? According to the Koran, will the trees and rocks that the Jews are hiding behind really yell out 'there's a Jew hiding behind me, kill him"? Do you adhere to ALL of Mohammad's teachings? What about those on women who he claims are stupid and menstruate? Or that in court, the testimony of 1 man is worth that of 2 women?

Also, what exactly do you teach? As an educated person (teacher) do you think that name calling advances your argument against internment verses profiling? I believe that calling someone 'chicken' does not further your argument against internment. In fact, it reflects poorly on your viewpoint.

I'm just trying to be pragmatic about this problem, both logistically and economically. I'm sure if someone did a true cost-benefit analysis of internment-verses profiling, which incidentally, is what this thread is supposed to be about, they would find a HUGE savings both in monetary, manpower, and reduced risk of attack.

Any true muslim who subscribes to the Koran and ALL that it teaches and ALL the tenents of the Islamic faith, is a threat to all free democracies that are not under muslim rule. Period. And as such, they should be interned or deported until after the war is over. Even 'moderates' (I'm guessing you are one) like yourself might someday wake up or to use another term, become 'born again muslims' taking the commands of Mohammad to 'kill the infidels where you find them' seriously. If you won't become 'born again' then your children certainly present this risk. This risk is very real as was clearly demonstrated in the 17 Canadians that were arrested in Ontario for allegedly plotting terrorist attacks on the dominion of Canada and even plotting to behead the prime minister, Stephen Harper. The majority of them were young adults and five of them were under the age of 18. Their parents weren't alleged terrorists but their children were a different story. Had Canadians interned muslims this wouldn't have happened. It's pretty hard to get three tons of explosives when you're properly interned.

The confiscation of your property is not to appease 'chickens' but rather, to pay for the internment so that the overburdened tax payer does not have to cover yet another program. Fair is fair; why should I have to pay to intern someone who is a risk to my country? This would free up money for the war on terror or other important social programs like health care, education, etc.

By the way, It's not 'my liberties' that are for sale here but rather the liberties of a small minority that inherently, by virtue of what is written in the Koran and preached by Imams, threatens the vast majority. The idea that minority rights, even if detrimantal to the health and safety of the majority, is the product of liberalism and is wrong. I see no problem with temporarily curtailing certain freedoms for certain minorities if it means saving millions of lives.

"The geatest threat these people pose to us is not loss of life, it is the loss of our way of life."

Really? How about those three thousand who died on September 11? I guess they all lost their way of life didn't they? What about those who died in the Bali nightclub attack? What was their greatest threat? I guess you're right, they lost their way of life, in fact, they will NEVER again be able to party in a nightclub. I guess now that they're dead they won't be able to have much of a way of life. I could go through the last 1400 years for numerous examples but these two examples will have to suffice for now.

So now what if one of those adherants to the 'peacefull religion' obtains a thermo-nuclear device and detonates it in Sydney harbour? I'm just guessing here but perhaps you might concede that people(thousands upon thousands) will lose more than just 'their way of life', pehaps they might even just lose their LIVES!!!!

By the way, non-muslims, ie the majority, would not lose their way of life by temporarily interning a small minority of people who represent a significant threat to the majority, in fact, their way of life will greatly improve because they won't have to worry about terrorist attacks. Better for the economy too.

"If you love concentration camps so much move to China or North Korea, they will love you there."

I don't love 'concentration camps' at all, in fact I loathe them and what they represent, the logical outcome of the teaching of evolution; survival of the fittest, that man evolved from slime and therefore has no morals or eternal consequences for his actions, master races, etc. The internment of the Japanese differs greatly from the 'concentration camps' of Hitler's Germany. As a 'teacher', you should know this, unless of course you are using the Islamophylic-liberal revised history of the world. In case your liberal teaching plans don't include this information, let me enlighten you as to one minor difference between concentration camps and internment camps: after WW2, the U.S. of A. released the Japanese very much alive, the Jews, on the other hand, didn't quite fare so well. The Jews were systematically exterminated, something called the Holocaust; perhaps you have heard of it?

In fact, the billions of bucks that the Saudi's spend on promoting Islam in the U.S.of A. could be used to provide for quite comfortable internment camps, more than just humane. And only the right of free movement would be curtailed, muslims would still be allowed to pray and enjoy all the religious freedoms they want, just so long as they are interned and not posing a threat to the rest of society.

I'm pro-choice on this matter. Those who don't want to be interned are free to leave the country until after the war is over. Those who choose to remain, can be humanely interned. I did not mention anything about concentration camps, that was a figment of your imagination. I'm sure that adequate facilities can be built once the Saudi investments have been expropriated. Once the threat of terror has been mitigated, we can release all those who chose internment over deportation. Choice is what makes this proposal more palatable to the lefties since they always seem to favour pro-choice.

"By definition, a war can only be waged on a state. What we are engaged in is international policing with war rhetoric. terrorists are criminals and should be treated as such."

I think you need to do your homework and define the word 'jihad'. Jihad is more than just the 'struggle within'. As the last 1400 years has shown us, Jihad is waged on ALL unbelievers no matter their geo-political situation. It can be waged on a state or an individual, or a group of individuals. It is Islam that has declared 'war' on the remainder of the world not yet under Islamic rule. Like the crusades of the middle ages, western democracies are just responding in kind to this Islamic aggression, and responding a little too slowly for some people's liking.

Your name calling (ad hominem attacks), appeal to seniority (9 generations) in a non-union country, improper definition of terms(jihad), red herrings(concentration camps), and appeal to emotion, only support the internment option verses the profiling option. In fact, you haven't given me any reasons why the internment option is less valid than the profiling option for controlling the Islamic threat.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (110) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
police make money off catching criminals is why profiling is unethical [119 words]jerryDec 23, 2009 09:31166177
2Profiling a must. [51 words]VictoriaAug 15, 2008 23:44136810
Profiling, really? [219 words]HeatherDec 4, 2008 09:51136810
Of Course [178 words]dfwhiteSep 24, 2006 16:3357345
How do you profile [36 words]Marie DowdlesOct 2, 2006 20:2857345
Dear Marie [54 words]dfwhiteOct 3, 2006 15:3157345
Dear dfwhite [61 words]MarieNov 8, 2006 04:3457345
Profiling has its dangers [113 words]Michael FoxAug 16, 2006 03:0553011
profiling [143 words]RieSep 28, 2006 15:5053011
Here's Looking at You [158 words]BriarsJun 25, 2006 13:2648145
19We need more than profiling: WE NEED MUSLIM INTERNMENT CAMPS NOW!!! [490 words]TylerJun 20, 2006 02:0347920
1tyler [81 words]ahmad zafireJun 26, 2006 22:2547920
2ahmad zafire [527 words]TylerJun 28, 2006 01:3847920
tyler [316 words]ahmad zafireJun 29, 2006 11:4947920
1internment of enemy aliens [54 words]terryJun 30, 2006 09:4247920
1facism yay [199 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 10:0147920
Recent events in Canada show that if you don't pose a threat, your children just might..... [1556 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 19:5947920
comfort zone [122 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 20:3447920
Tyler [1110 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 08:2347920
With you [218 words]dfwhiteSep 26, 2006 17:4347920
Do you want to Inter half the world's population [104 words]RieOct 2, 2006 20:4647920
Yes indeed! Internment camps are needed for ALL muslims now and are way overdue. [112 words]Brian McInnesOct 29, 2006 09:3547920
Rie: You made my point for me....thank you! [311 words]TylerOct 29, 2006 18:0047920
Ignorance is not bliss [347 words]AdamMar 27, 2007 17:2747920
Absurd [118 words]ParisaMar 24, 2009 02:2647920
Ethical way to protect Americans against Muslims [146 words]CandidSep 3, 2010 23:0647920
Why don't you put whys before your your co-religoists [68 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 7, 2010 11:2747920
Muslim interment camps in America [94 words]Betty LiportoApr 8, 2015 19:1247920
Prophet Mohammed and Islam never profile people [337 words]John BastileJun 18, 2006 11:3547859
Flawed narrations [41 words]Dawud KhuluqSep 20, 2006 22:4947859
So far... [17 words]SandiJun 15, 2006 22:2447741
More on Security Certificates... [513 words]J.S.Jun 15, 2006 18:4047733
Has Canada gone nuts? [26 words]JaladhiJun 16, 2006 12:0747733
Indeed, I suspect the general public is "nuts.." and/or suicidal (?) [402 words]J.S.Jun 16, 2006 17:4847733
Canadians are still very liberal oriented despite the election of the Conservative Government [239 words]Jeff BurkeJun 18, 2006 10:4747733
1A message for CANADA [388 words]HarrakJun 18, 2006 12:0647733
Quite correct reading, Jeff, the Canadian public is largely leftist... [163 words]J.S.Jun 19, 2006 15:3147733
1Imagine how credible your comments would be if you actually lived in Canada Harak! [772 words]TylerJun 20, 2006 02:5847733
Ottawa 300 ERR [260 words]HarrakJun 20, 2006 17:5347733
I rest my case! [23 words]TylerJun 22, 2006 02:1547733
Harrak you crack me up [222 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:0347733
Tyler, you keep great company [48 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:5347733
Go ahead and dialogue away, while we still have a democracy............ [223 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 20:2347733
thank you for correction [35 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 09:0447733
Imagine [36 words]Jonathan UsherJun 15, 2006 08:1347706
Try this for profiling! [35 words]Kevin MJun 14, 2006 19:4847688
Try this for profiling! [206 words]barbaraJun 17, 2006 04:0647688
ever heard of the IRA barbara? [43 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 19, 2006 12:2247688
Burn a cross? [101 words]barbaraJun 22, 2006 14:3847688
It was a joke Barbara. [322 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 23, 2006 07:0147688
Profiling, pluralism, and Canada as a Terrorist Haven...part 2 [939 words]J.S.Jun 14, 2006 19:3747686
Please verify your sources Sir. [55 words]YovenJun 16, 2006 13:5547686
"Several" ? - How about One! [133 words]JaladhiJun 16, 2006 15:3747686
There is no death penalty in Canada, and the juveniles can't be identified... [104 words]J.S.Jun 16, 2006 17:5847686
Is canada willing to solve the Palestinian Problem [111 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 17, 2006 18:5347686
Indeed!! Actually, that WAS a suggestion under Jean Chretien Liberal Party of Canada! [84 words]J.S.Jun 19, 2006 15:1747686
not voluntarily [75 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2006 07:5547686
yes, that's a consideration... [326 words]J.S.Jun 22, 2006 14:4547686
Islam a cult? look at your speech! [193 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:4547686
RE: Islam a cult? look at your speech! [119 words]YovenJul 6, 2006 18:4847686
venom! [148 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 05:3047686
I think.. [35 words]IdnaaJun 4, 2008 18:0447686
Profiling [35 words]steven LJun 14, 2006 18:2747685
Rev. Thomas Bayes and intelligent estimation of probability of an event, given partial iinformation [215 words]Howard T, HermannJun 14, 2006 18:0247682
Absolutely correct [19 words]Stephen CrowleyJun 26, 2006 02:1847682
Go ahead and profile me, I have nothing to hide. [224 words]YovenJun 14, 2006 14:0347675
profiling [155 words]DanJun 14, 2006 12:3747672
Profiling is a good solution [93 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
HarrakJun 14, 2006 11:5147666
who cares?. [113 words]ahmad zafireJun 14, 2006 23:1947666
Terrorism per capita [173 words]HarrakJun 15, 2006 19:5547666
An aplogist spin [90 words]VijayJun 16, 2006 15:5447666
Harrak Understands Nature of Conflict [215 words]InfidelJun 16, 2006 16:2147666
Muslim countries have the largest number of terrorists per capita.... [26 words]MosheJun 17, 2006 16:1847666
Thanks for Dr Pipes and replies for Infidel [502 words]HarrakJun 18, 2006 02:0847666
We must call back all Indias from Arab & Muslim Countries [26 words]Proud IndianJun 19, 2006 15:0347666
define terrorist [579 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:3547666
Abdul Rahman, are you suggesting that terrorism is "relative"? [204 words]MosheJul 3, 2006 04:5447666
definition [409 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 09:3247666
inquiry [37 words]david kelsonJan 28, 2007 14:3947666
Next Justification There is Good AIDS and Bad AIDS [85 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh BharatPanthiSep 7, 2010 11:4647666
Profiling aka 'preemptive outreach?' : Dr.Pipes made the case for profiling four years ago -will they listen now? [418 words]Ben van de PolderJun 14, 2006 11:1747661
Dr. Pipes'positon regarding terrorist profiling [229 words]Carmen WaggonerJun 14, 2006 11:0747660
Profiling vs Stereotyping [247 words]Scott RoyJun 14, 2006 09:4147653
A Rational Perspective [96 words]John McClainJun 14, 2006 09:0347636
Profiling [98 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Paul RaetzJun 14, 2006 08:4847635
Should Profile [500 words]howardJun 14, 2006 08:3547634
Do Not Be Suprised That The NYPD Does It, Since It Was Hit On September 11, 2001 [110 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnneMJun 14, 2006 08:0247631
It does, and it SHOULD! [42 words]MosheJun 14, 2006 04:4247627
Profiling [103 words]E. N. Mayfield, Jr.Jun 14, 2006 01:5347625
" Islamism" is a political artifact. [243 words]Dr Paul ChristopherJun 13, 2006 23:3147622
police and fbi still don't get it............. [297 words]warren baconJun 13, 2006 23:2147621
Christian Arabs don't blow themselves up! [123 words]MichaelJun 13, 2006 23:0447620
And the point is ....? [226 words]Mr. BowersJun 13, 2006 22:2947619
PROFILING IS A MUST [58 words]John ManittaJun 13, 2006 21:5047616
Police and Profiling [135 words]Nenette GrunbergJun 13, 2006 20:4847614
Granny don't need profiling! [48 words]Sue ChristensenJun 13, 2006 20:3847612
American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Commitee - Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the idea [87 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dave KatzJun 13, 2006 19:5647611
Re profiling [65 words]etrudieJun 13, 2006 19:3247610
Police & Profiling [224 words]Dan RusenJun 13, 2006 18:5747609
Who Is Complaining? [248 words]John RJun 13, 2006 18:5247607
Very good question! [73 words]MosheJun 15, 2006 03:0247607
Profiling [232 words]peter debellisDec 10, 2008 11:4747607
Profiling is common-sense [234 words]Alan NitikmanJun 13, 2006 18:2247605
A heavy blow against relativism [105 words]David W. LincolnJun 13, 2006 17:2847604
RACIAL PROFILE [135 words]DONANVJun 13, 2006 17:2747603
Absolutely, 200%, unequivocably, without question necessary [350 words]rickJun 13, 2006 17:1647602
Check the likely suspects [137 words]Ralph C Whaley MDJun 13, 2006 17:0547601
Is profiling justified given past occurrences??? [475 words]Dennis SellersJun 13, 2006 16:5247599
Racial Profiling [230 words]Steven GoldbergJun 13, 2006 16:1647596
PROFILING A MUST [38 words]Donald Grant Cheesman, USARMY (ret)Jun 13, 2006 15:5447594

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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