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Profiling, pluralism, and Canada as a Terrorist Haven...part 2
Reader comment on item: Does the Police Department Profile? Should It?

Submitted by J.S. (Canada), Jun 14, 2006 at 19:37

I am not totally in agreement with respect to "racial profiling." I don't believe "race" is a significant factor, and I suspect that the terrorist front is rapidly moving to become "inclusive." Thus, I can imagine a wasp as an Islamist terrorist (for example, an Anglican convert to Islam). Several of the individuals arrested on terrorism charges in Canada were formerly Hindu (I believe with East Indian backgrounds), but they converted to radical Islam. For me, if Hindus are likely to convert, why not Anglicans or Catholics, etc?

Also, I think the police need to build trust with the various ethnic communities in Canada. I think a softer approach might be more appropriate. (I also don't want to see ultra-nationalist, right-wing fanatics in power in Canada -- I suppose, typified by British soccer hooligans -- the rioting, tattooed, drunken, "outsiders out" types.)

On the other hand, I don't want pie-in-the-sky delusional, as in "let's all hold hands," types either...such as those found at the CBC -- generally CBC's journalists (as with the Toronto Star) are far too frightened to even mention or associate the word "Islam" with "terrorism." For them, it's all "Islam means Peace!!"

Now on to the Terrorist Haven part...The Canadian Supreme Court is hearing arguments about what's called a Security Certificate. Security Certificates have been around for a long, long time in Canada (long before 9/11 or 2001). The security certificates worked as follows: a non-Canadian would enter Canada, perhaps apply for refugee status or attempt to enter as an immigrant...Canadian authorities at CSIS (that's similar to the CIA) would get a tip from some other intelligence agency noting that individual X was potentially dangerous (had been implicated in some "plots" -- ie., suspected of terrorist related activities.) CSIS would notify Federal ministers; and if two ministers signed the security certificate, the person would be sent packing. Thus, in the past, any would-be immigrant with a violent past, would be (after a security certificate has been issued) picked up by the RCMP, put on a plane and deported to his home country.

This procedure no longer works. One of the problems is that the Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that anyone -- citizen or non-citizen -- is entitled to Charter Right protections. That is, if a person sets foot on Canadian soil, he is to be granted the same rights as any Canadian citizen -- that includes not just due process, but free access to lawyers, welfare, social benefits, etc., etc. Then came another problem -- whether or not Canada could deport people to countries which practiced torture...Thus creating a catch-22 situation.

So, now we have 5 people currently being held (in jail) on Security Certificates -- they can't be released from jail because they are too dangerous (one Egyptian has been charged with 7 terrorism related counts in Egypt.). At the same time, their defense attorneys argue that they cannot be deported to their home countries (because their home countries are typically Arab states which practice torture.) These individuals could (if they wished) voluntarily leave their jail cells -- they could choose to return to say, Egypt...But, of course, they do not want to return to Egypt. So they sit in Canadian jails and whine about their "confinement" and claim "it's illegal." They also claim to "want justice." (One of their biggest boosters is James Loney -- he's the fellow who's with the group Christian Peacekeepers -- Loney has been described in the media as a "moral imbecile" -- he was kidnapped in Iraq, then when rescued, he had the temerity to implicitly denounce his rescuers, along with all forms of "violence" -- including any that would, I guess, save his life. I figure he should have been left in Iraq, since he loves terrorists so much.)

Michael Ignatieff, a potential leader of the Liberal Party of Canada has gone public, stating the following "principles" -- 1) He believes *all* people are entitled to Charter protections, not just citizens of Canada; 2) the use of indefinite detention -- that is, putting suspected terrorists in jail by virtue of a Security Certificate -- cannot be justified; 3) he doesn't want Canada sending people off to be tortured. Sooo, just what, precisely, are Canada's options -- let the terrorist go free?? I suspect that this is what liberals want. They want freedom for terrorists.

And the notion that somehow these terrorst plotters from abroad can be given a "trial" in Canada??-- well, where would you begin to get the evidence?? (Intelligence agencies only release info to other agencies given that the info is NOT going to be made public). The notion (which the alleged terrorists repeat over and over) is "Give us a Trial! Give us a Trial!" Yet they all know very well that a trial is not possible -- there's no way to gather sufficient evidence to convict them... Thus a Canadian "trial" would be their guarantee to freedom.

If the Supreme Court takes away the Security Certificates, or rules that deportation of terrorists to their home countries cannot be done -- then Canada will indeed have become a terrorist haven par excellence. Canada will become the World Attractor for Terrorists -- a magnet -- equal to any Third World Somalia. Bin Laden could take up residence and wander the streets of Toronto as a free man. (couldn't deport him to the U.S. -- he might be -- Gasp -- be executed!! o the horror!)...The Supreme Court (some of the justices have a background with the United Nations...) will be making their decision some time in September...or there abouts... I hope it's not dellusional.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (106) on this item

Title By Date
police make money off catching criminals is why profiling is unethical [119 words]jerryDec 23, 2009 09:31
Profiling a must. [51 words]VictoriaAug 15, 2008 23:44
Profiling, really? [219 words]HeatherDec 4, 2008 09:51
Of Course [178 words]dfwhiteSep 24, 2006 16:33
How do you profile [36 words]Marie DowdlesOct 2, 2006 20:28
Dear Marie [54 words]dfwhiteOct 3, 2006 15:31
Dear dfwhite [61 words]MarieNov 8, 2006 04:34
Profiling has its dangers [113 words]Michael FoxAug 16, 2006 03:05
profiling [143 words]RieSep 28, 2006 15:50
Here's Looking at You [158 words]BriarsJun 25, 2006 13:26
We need more than profiling: WE NEED MUSLIM INTERNMENT CAMPS NOW!!! [490 words]TylerJun 20, 2006 02:03
tyler [81 words]ahmad zafireJun 26, 2006 22:25
ahmad zafire [527 words]TylerJun 28, 2006 01:38
tyler [316 words]ahmad zafireJun 29, 2006 11:49
internment of enemy aliens [54 words]terryJun 30, 2006 09:42
facism yay [199 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 10:01
Recent events in Canada show that if you don't pose a threat, your children just might..... [1556 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 19:59
comfort zone [122 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 20:34
Tyler [1110 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 08:23
With you [218 words]dfwhiteSep 26, 2006 17:43
Do you want to Inter half the world's population [104 words]RieOct 2, 2006 20:46
Yes indeed! Internment camps are needed for ALL muslims now and are way overdue. [112 words]Brian McInnesOct 29, 2006 09:35
Rie: You made my point for me....thank you! [311 words]TylerOct 29, 2006 18:00
Ignorance is not bliss [347 words]AdamMar 27, 2007 17:27
Absurd [118 words]ParisaMar 24, 2009 02:26
Prophet Mohammed and Islam never profile people [337 words]John BastileJun 18, 2006 11:35
Flawed narrations [41 words]Dawud KhuluqSep 20, 2006 22:49
So far... [17 words]SandiJun 15, 2006 22:24
More on Security Certificates... [513 words]J.S.Jun 15, 2006 18:40
Has Canada gone nuts? [26 words]JaladhiJun 16, 2006 12:07
Indeed, I suspect the general public is "nuts.." and/or suicidal (?) [402 words]J.S.Jun 16, 2006 17:48
Canadians are still very liberal oriented despite the election of the Conservative Government [239 words]Jeff BurkeJun 18, 2006 10:47
A message for CANADA [388 words]HarrakJun 18, 2006 12:06
Quite correct reading, Jeff, the Canadian public is largely leftist... [163 words]J.S.Jun 19, 2006 15:31
Imagine how credible your comments would be if you actually lived in Canada Harak! [772 words]TylerJun 20, 2006 02:58
Ottawa 300 ERR [260 words]HarrakJun 20, 2006 17:53
I rest my case! [23 words]TylerJun 22, 2006 02:15
Harrak you crack me up [222 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:03
Tyler, you keep great company [48 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:53
Go ahead and dialogue away, while we still have a democracy............ [223 words]TylerJun 30, 2006 20:23
thank you for correction [35 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 09:04
Imagine [36 words]Jonathan UsherJun 15, 2006 08:13
Try this for profiling! [35 words]Kevin MJun 14, 2006 19:48
Try this for profiling! [206 words]barbaraJun 17, 2006 04:06
ever heard of the IRA barbara? [43 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 19, 2006 12:22
Burn a cross? [101 words]barbaraJun 22, 2006 14:38
It was a joke Barbara. [322 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 23, 2006 07:01
⇒ Profiling, pluralism, and Canada as a Terrorist Haven...part 2 [939 words]J.S.Jun 14, 2006 19:37
Please verify your sources Sir. [55 words]YovenJun 16, 2006 13:55
"Several" ? - How about One! [133 words]JaladhiJun 16, 2006 15:37
There is no death penalty in Canada, and the juveniles can't be identified... [104 words]J.S.Jun 16, 2006 17:58
Is canada willing to solve the Palestinian Problem [111 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 17, 2006 18:53
Indeed!! Actually, that WAS a suggestion under Jean Chretien Liberal Party of Canada! [84 words]J.S.Jun 19, 2006 15:17
not voluntarily [75 words]Yuval Brandstetter MDJun 20, 2006 07:55
yes, that's a consideration... [326 words]J.S.Jun 22, 2006 14:45
Islam a cult? look at your speech! [193 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:45
RE: Islam a cult? look at your speech! [119 words]YovenJul 6, 2006 18:48
venom! [148 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 05:30
I think.. [35 words]IdnaaJun 4, 2008 18:04
Profiling [35 words]steven LJun 14, 2006 18:27
Rev. Thomas Bayes and intelligent estimation of probability of an event, given partial iinformation [215 words]Howard T, HermannJun 14, 2006 18:02
Absolutely correct [19 words]Stephen CrowleyJun 26, 2006 02:18
Go ahead and profile me, I have nothing to hide. [224 words]YovenJun 14, 2006 14:03
profiling [155 words]DanJun 14, 2006 12:37
Profiling is a good solution
[w/response] [93 words]
HarrakJun 14, 2006 11:51
who cares?. [113 words]ahmad zafireJun 14, 2006 23:19
Terrorism per capita [173 words]HarrakJun 15, 2006 19:55
An aplogist spin [90 words]VijayJun 16, 2006 15:54
Harrak Understands Nature of Conflict [215 words]InfidelJun 16, 2006 16:21
Muslim countries have the largest number of terrorists per capita.... [26 words]MosheJun 17, 2006 16:18
Thanks for Dr Pipes and replies for Infidel [502 words]HarrakJun 18, 2006 02:08
We must call back all Indias from Arab & Muslim Countries [26 words]Proud IndianJun 19, 2006 15:03
define terrorist [579 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:35
Abdul Rahman, are you suggesting that terrorism is "relative"? [204 words]MosheJul 3, 2006 04:54
definition [409 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 09:32
inquiry [37 words]david kelsonJan 28, 2007 14:39
Profiling aka 'preemptive outreach?' : Dr.Pipes made the case for profiling four years ago -will they listen now? [418 words]Ben van de PolderJun 14, 2006 11:17
Dr. Pipes'positon regarding terrorist profiling [229 words]Carmen WaggonerJun 14, 2006 11:07
Profiling vs Stereotyping [247 words]Scott RoyJun 14, 2006 09:41
A Rational Perspective [96 words]John McClainJun 14, 2006 09:03
Profiling
[w/response] [98 words]
Paul RaetzJun 14, 2006 08:48
Should Profile [500 words]howardJun 14, 2006 08:35
Do Not Be Suprised That The NYPD Does It, Since It Was Hit On September 11, 2001
[w/response] [110 words]
AnneMJun 14, 2006 08:02
It does, and it SHOULD! [42 words]MosheJun 14, 2006 04:42
Profiling [103 words]E. N. Mayfield, Jr.Jun 14, 2006 01:53
" Islamism" is a political artifact. [243 words]Dr Paul ChristopherJun 13, 2006 23:31
police and fbi still don't get it............. [297 words]warren baconJun 13, 2006 23:21
Christian Arabs don't blow themselves up! [123 words]MichaelJun 13, 2006 23:04
And the point is ....? [226 words]Mr. BowersJun 13, 2006 22:29
PROFILING IS A MUST [58 words]John ManittaJun 13, 2006 21:50
Police and Profiling [135 words]Nenette GrunbergJun 13, 2006 20:48
Granny don't need profiling! [48 words]Sue ChristensenJun 13, 2006 20:38
American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Commitee - Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the idea
[w/response] [87 words]
Dave KatzJun 13, 2006 19:56
Re profiling [65 words]etrudieJun 13, 2006 19:32
Police & Profiling [224 words]Dan RusenJun 13, 2006 18:57
Who Is Complaining? [248 words]John RJun 13, 2006 18:52
Very good question! [73 words]MosheJun 15, 2006 03:02
Profiling [232 words]peter debellisDec 10, 2008 11:47
Profiling is common-sense [234 words]Alan NitikmanJun 13, 2006 18:22
A heavy blow against relativism [105 words]David W. LincolnJun 13, 2006 17:28
RACIAL PROFILE [135 words]DONANVJun 13, 2006 17:27
Absolutely, 200%, unequivocably, without question necessary [350 words]rickJun 13, 2006 17:16
Check the likely suspects [137 words]Ralph C Whaley MDJun 13, 2006 17:05
Is profiling justified given past occurrences??? [475 words]Dennis SellersJun 13, 2006 16:52
Racial Profiling [230 words]Steven GoldbergJun 13, 2006 16:16
PROFILING A MUST [38 words]Donald Grant Cheesman, USARMY (ret)Jun 13, 2006 15:54

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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