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Islamization but no Arabization: Iran and historical discontinuity v historical continuity

Reader comment on item: Dhimmis No More
in response to reader comment: Arabs, Copts and Goths

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Dec 27, 2017 at 09:12

Just to remind the readers: Carl Becker the great German historian believed that the answer to the question: Why did the countries invaded by the Arabs in the 7th century became Islamized and Arabized when the opposite have been expected so in the case of Iran those Arab invaders would have been speaking Persian and became Zoroastrians

The Islamic historical tradition's answer is that this was historical discontinuity (al-Jahilyya) Becker believed that it was in actual fact historical continuity So in the case of Egypt and Iran the Arab invasion was a catalyst for a change that was already happening for reasons we don't understand with or without the Arab invasion and the result was Islamization leading to Arabization

So the real question is: Why did this Islamization/Arabization happen?

Take the case of Iran a country that has much in common with Egypt. Both countries have very profound unique histories, well defined geography, with unique religions and languages In the case of Egypt we can see the Islamization followed by the Arabization But in the case of Iran we see the Islamization and just as in Egypt the conversion from Zoroastrianism to Islam was uneven and long. Arabization? It just did not happen and why is that? in-spite of the bizarre remark by gato about: "Arabic, however, was regarded by Arabs as the language in which the Heaven and its Prophet themselves have spoken, thus in terms of prestige it largely outflanked Coptic." I can also replace the word Coptic (sic) for Pahlavi Still the Persians did not become Arabic speakers and why is that our dear Gato? Did they have less respect for Allah's language?

What is most striking about Iran is Ali Dashti's claim that Persians the likes of al-Tabari, al-Zamakhshari, al-Bukhari and Sibawayhi wrote 70% of Kutub al-Turath al-Islami Can you imagine islam without al-Tabari and al-Bukhari? It makes you wonder that it might have been a case of "if you cannot beat them then join them" and most likely this is what happened Persia was dragged into Islam not unlike Egypt and Persians made Islam what it is The Arabs? They were busy doing what they did best: Loot and rape burn books libraries and destroying old civilizations that was indeed appalling

So why did the Persians continue to speak their Persian language and not become Arabic speakers? Could it be because of the profound secular literature in Persian and what was the effect of the likes of Firdawsi's Shahnemah on the survival of the language of Iran? Food for thought

In the case of Egypt extant literary evidence from late antiquity reveals that not only in Alexandria but also in the cities of the Cora, Egyptians were avid readers of Greek literature (as in the case of the Oxyrhynchus papyri) but still the Greek language was dead in Egypt two centuries following the Arab invasion! And why is that our dear gato? And no the Greek language did not vanish in Egypt because according to you "the tiny" Greek speakers left Egypt following the Arab invasion

If you take the time and attend a Coptic mass you will discover that the Copts also use Greek in their liturgy and why is that our dear gato?

So Iran presents another example of the outcome of the Arab invasions: Islamization albeit created by Iranians but no Arabization!

Do you get it our dear gato?


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Title Commenter Date Thread
1SUBJ1 [44 words]anonJan 11, 2018 09:05241827
1Paying Palestinians [154 words]Glenda UrmacherJan 9, 2018 21:21241815
Bring Back Imperialism and Colonialism [199 words]DaveDec 26, 2017 21:24241676
Christian population declines [38 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JesseDec 24, 2017 09:25241657
Dear Dr. Pipes [157 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeJan 1, 2018 01:18241657
Dear Dr. Pipes [52 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 2, 2018 22:11241657
Dear Dr. Pipes [85 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 2, 2018 22:59241657
2The most absurd claim by our dear Deb and he has a long history of absurd claims Right our dear Deb? [60 words]dhimmi no moreJan 3, 2018 08:06241657
1Our dear Deb and more gems! [74 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 08:12241657
Happy new year dear DNM [26 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2018 12:02241657
Debanjan exposes the mastermind behind ISIS [220 words]JeffJan 7, 2018 20:54241657
Dear Jeff [101 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2018 08:42241657
1Our dear Deb: Mullah كمال الحيدري says that the Qur'an is a corrupted book! What a disaster [146 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 14:24241657
3Dhimmi historians [31 words]SteinDec 21, 2017 22:50241645
Imperial Church [187 words]gato brancoDec 20, 2017 04:12241625
1I disagree with your statement about Spain in 1200 [285 words]gato brancoDec 20, 2017 02:47241623
2Big Mistake By Muslims [72 words]DavidDec 19, 2017 05:00241613
1Outside ME no better [69 words]VijayDec 18, 2017 10:23241594
1Christians and Jews, start saving up for the Jizya! [314 words]Michael SDec 12, 2017 10:47241547
1Comedy time! And how to punish the US for moving the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem! Read and laugh [55 words]dhimmi no moreDec 10, 2017 16:40241523
1The Arabization and Islamization of Egypt [335 words]dhimmi no moreDec 9, 2017 08:47241503
1Were the early 20th century Turks the only nasty Muslims? [97 words]KephaDec 15, 2017 20:07241503
7Entire conflict explained in less than 20 lines [203 words]G MarcusDec 19, 2017 00:57241503
Arabs, Copts and Goths [266 words]gato brancoDec 20, 2017 02:01241503
3Arabian imperialism [86 words]dhimmi no moreDec 21, 2017 07:23241503
3Islam came to the world at the right time (for them) [451 words]PrashantDec 22, 2017 13:16241503
1The 4th option is neither mentioned nor considered [270 words]PrashantDec 25, 2017 03:23241503
1Arabian Monotheism Muhammadan's style And what happens when the barbarian invade the lands of the civilized [986 words]dhimmi no moreDec 26, 2017 16:56241503
1Islamization but no Arabization: Iran and historical discontinuity v historical continuity [567 words]dhimmi no moreDec 27, 2017 09:12241503
1Are some languages superior to others? Greek Egyptian language and Arabic in Egypt post 642CE [597 words]dhimmi no moreDec 28, 2017 08:30241503
SO what about the West [37 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 1, 2018 01:22241503
1Islamic invaders were not imperialists and western imperialists were not religious tyrants. [607 words]PrashantJan 2, 2018 05:56241503
2Our dear Deb and wearing black shoes! What a disaster! [307 words]dhimmi no moreJan 2, 2018 09:47241503
Persians [150 words]gato brancoJan 2, 2018 11:57241503
1A few questions for our dear Deb whose Hindu ancestors were brutalized by the Muslim invaders of India [290 words]dhimmi no moreJan 2, 2018 12:14241503
2Hey our dear Deb: The Qur'an says that Paul is the prophet of Allah! What a disaster! [77 words]dhimmi no moreJan 3, 2018 08:14241503
1Persian and Egyptian languages: Scripts v spoken languages [474 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 09:09241503
1Hey our dear Deb I have another question: Is it true that Allah converted to Islam in Q3:18? What a disaster! [107 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 12:11241503
Christianity is still a Western imperial legacy [116 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 8, 2018 22:26241503
Once more Persians and Copts [219 words]gato brancoJan 15, 2018 01:57241503
1Egypt and Iran v Arab invasion and Islamization and Arabization [866 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 08:48241503
Our dear Deb and Arabian imperialism and the Shi'a tell us that the Qur'an is a corrupted book! [438 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 10:01241503
1Thanks for the article 'Dhimmis No More' [601 words]PrashantDec 8, 2017 11:29241498
There are differences [50 words]bernardDec 18, 2017 19:28241498
1So... [13 words]AlexDec 7, 2017 21:00241490
Let's Win the War of Ideas [212 words]DaveDec 7, 2017 18:12241489

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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