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Iran and Egypt, secular culture v Asateer al-Awaleen in religious garb!

Reader comment on item: Dhimmis No More
in response to reader comment: Persian writings in Arabic

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jan 27, 2018 at 10:53

Gato you wrote

>The existence of secular poetry in Egyptian language would have helped its survival in Muslim milieu since secular literature can be shared and admired by people of different confessions,

May be. But religious stories and poetry can be as powerful and inspiring as secular stories and poetry

In late antique Egypt Egyptians loved the stories of Homer in his "The Iliad and The Odyssey" which are not unlike the stories of the Old and New Testament Very inspiring and very entertaining This really means that not just secular literature but also religious literature was loved and appreciated and the "Copts" translated the Bible very early to their own Egyptian language in both the Sahidic as well as the Bohairc dialects so every Egyptian would be able to understand these texts

http://www.historyofinformation.com/expanded.php?id=193

It is very interesting to read comments in a papyrus by a Syrian visitor to Alexandria in late antiquity where he describes the scene at an Egyptian temple with the wonderful smell of incense and music and hymns all very inspiring for the Egyptian masses and not unlike today's Coptic Church!

The point is Egyptians had a wonderful source of literature written in their own language with heroes and villains and that is the Bible what else can you ask for

So the lack of secular writings in "Coptic" may not account for much

There is a "Legal Archive" of an Egyptian (Coptic) family in the early 7th century with something to do with inheritance and real estate and it spans a period of about 40 years well beyond the time of the Arab invasion in 642CE with the family travelling from their home in Upper Egypt to as far as Fustat/Masr in-order to settle the matter in a court of law And they were witnesses to the Persian invasion of Egypt then the return of the Greeks to Egypt followed by the Arab invasion They were truly aliens in their own homeland This is indeed what happened and this is truly still the tragedy of the Copts in Egypt now

Compare this with the Persians that followed the "if you cannot beat them then join them" and the end result is Persians created Islam and through the Abbasids were in control of not just the sacred but also the profane (politics) in the emerging Islam and for a long time

> but definitely Christian literature written by Egyptian monks hardly had any appeal on Muslims.

Again let us say Mathematical books would be of interest only to those that study mathematics and therefore would have limited appeal to the masses. Right?

As a matter of fact most Muslims have no clue about what is in their books and because most Muslims cannot read these books in their primary language Arabic and therefore are off limits to them! Yes they can use translations but we all know that translations are really about what the translator believed that the text is saying So there is nothing wrong with religious writings by the fathers of the Coptic church had limited appeal

Oh Asateer al-Awaleen? It means the Stories of the Ancients! The Meccan pagans were making fun of Muhammad that he was recycling the stories of the ancients (eg: The story of Dhul Qarnain and ahl al-Kahf) and that he was not providing them with any new stories that they did not know! Still these plagiarized stories in the Qur'an are loved by the Muslim masses! Any guesses why?

I do believe that if the people of Egypt would have done what the Persians have done "if you cannot beat them then join them" they would have been speaking their own Egyptian language albeit with loan words from Arabic and they would have shaped Islam (not unlike Iran) in their own image!


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Title Commenter Date Thread
2Why did Muslims attack Persia? [406 words]PrashantFeb 17, 2018 12:44242278
1Attention Prashant: The Arab invasion of Persia and the recent change in the paradigm of "What Really Happened" [724 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 20, 2018 09:08242278
2SUBJ1 [44 words]anonJan 11, 2018 09:05241827
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Dear Dr. Pipes [157 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeJan 1, 2018 01:18241657
Dear Dr. Pipes [52 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 2, 2018 22:11241657
Dear Dr. Pipes [85 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 2, 2018 22:59241657
2The most absurd claim by our dear Deb and he has a long history of absurd claims Right our dear Deb? [60 words]dhimmi no moreJan 3, 2018 08:06241657
1Our dear Deb and more gems! [74 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 08:12241657
Happy new year dear DNM [26 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 7, 2018 12:02241657
1Debanjan exposes the mastermind behind ISIS [220 words]JeffJan 7, 2018 20:54241657
Dear Jeff [101 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 15, 2018 08:42241657
1al-Taqiyya Deb's style! [93 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 10:08241657
3Our dear Deb: Mullah كمال الحيدري says that the Qur'an is a corrupted book! What a disaster [146 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 14:24241657
1Sleuth D.B.exposes even more on the hidden hands behind ISIS [307 words]JeffJan 20, 2018 18:42241657
4Dhimmi historians [31 words]SteinDec 21, 2017 22:50241645
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2Big Mistake By Muslims [72 words]DavidDec 19, 2017 05:00241613
1Outside ME no better [69 words]VijayDec 18, 2017 10:23241594
1Christians and Jews, start saving up for the Jizya! [314 words]Michael SDec 12, 2017 10:47241547
1Comedy time! And how to punish the US for moving the embassy in Israel to Jerusalem! Read and laugh [55 words]dhimmi no moreDec 10, 2017 16:40241523
1The Arabization and Islamization of Egypt [335 words]dhimmi no moreDec 9, 2017 08:47241503
1Were the early 20th century Turks the only nasty Muslims? [97 words]KephaDec 15, 2017 20:07241503
7Entire conflict explained in less than 20 lines [203 words]G MarcusDec 19, 2017 00:57241503
Arabs, Copts and Goths [266 words]gato brancoDec 20, 2017 02:01241503
3Arabian imperialism [86 words]dhimmi no moreDec 21, 2017 07:23241503
3Islam came to the world at the right time (for them) [451 words]PrashantDec 22, 2017 13:16241503
1The 4th option is neither mentioned nor considered [270 words]PrashantDec 25, 2017 03:23241503
1Arabian Monotheism Muhammadan's style And what happens when the barbarian invade the lands of the civilized [986 words]dhimmi no moreDec 26, 2017 16:56241503
1Islamization but no Arabization: Iran and historical discontinuity v historical continuity [567 words]dhimmi no moreDec 27, 2017 09:12241503
2Are some languages superior to others? Greek Egyptian language and Arabic in Egypt post 642CE [597 words]dhimmi no moreDec 28, 2017 08:30241503
SO what about the West [37 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 1, 2018 01:22241503
1Islamic invaders were not imperialists and western imperialists were not religious tyrants. [607 words]PrashantJan 2, 2018 05:56241503
3Our dear Deb and wearing black shoes! What a disaster! [307 words]dhimmi no moreJan 2, 2018 09:47241503
Persians [150 words]gato brancoJan 2, 2018 11:57241503
2A few questions for our dear Deb whose Hindu ancestors were brutalized by the Muslim invaders of India [290 words]dhimmi no moreJan 2, 2018 12:14241503
3Hey our dear Deb: The Qur'an says that Paul is the prophet of Allah! What a disaster! [77 words]dhimmi no moreJan 3, 2018 08:14241503
1Persian and Egyptian languages: Scripts v spoken languages [474 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 09:09241503
2Hey our dear Deb I have another question: Is it true that Allah converted to Islam in Q3:18? What a disaster! [107 words]dhimmi no moreJan 7, 2018 12:11241503
Christianity is still a Western imperial legacy [116 words]Debanjan BanerjeeJan 8, 2018 22:26241503
Once more Persians and Copts [219 words]gato brancoJan 15, 2018 01:57241503
1Egypt and Iran v Arab invasion and Islamization and Arabization [866 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 08:48241503
2Our dear Deb and Arabian imperialism and the Shi'a tell us that the Qur'an is a corrupted book! [438 words]dhimmi no moreJan 15, 2018 10:01241503
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Persian writings in Arabic [324 words]gato brancoJan 20, 2018 06:44241503
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1Iran and the "mother tongue"! Persian v Arabic! [1022 words]dhimmi no moreJan 25, 2018 11:27241503
Qur'anic Arabic etc. [615 words]gato brancoJan 26, 2018 01:27241503
1Iran and Egypt, secular culture v Asateer al-Awaleen in religious garb! [634 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2018 10:53241503
1Persian and Egyptian Arabic and the "mother tongue" [1364 words]dhimmi no moreJan 31, 2018 11:50241503
1Addendum The Quranic word al-Ruum is a loan word from Syriac [46 words]dhimmi no moreJan 31, 2018 12:01241503
1sermo plebeius and sermo urbanus Italian v Latin and Egyptian Arabic v Classical Arabic [179 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 1, 2018 08:19241503
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1Footnote: مملكة الانباط or the Nabataean Kingdom and Islam [131 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 2, 2018 09:39241503
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fuSHa and colloquial [361 words]gato brancoFeb 6, 2018 01:20241503
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1Language and identity: The sacred v the profane? And BBC Arabic is a joke! [240 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 10, 2018 07:38241503
John Wansbrough's Sectarian Milieu: The Abbasids and the sacred and the profane [569 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 10, 2018 08:08241503
1So what do we now about the Qur'an as a text? [788 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 10, 2018 11:29241503
Dr Mohmed Rahoma on the language of the Qur'an and that it is not Classical Arabic and the Quranic وشهد شاهد من اهلها [196 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 15, 2018 10:09241503
1Thanks for the article 'Dhimmis No More' [601 words]PrashantDec 8, 2017 11:29241498
There are differences [50 words]bernardDec 18, 2017 19:28241498
2So... [13 words]AlexDec 7, 2017 21:00241490
Let's Win the War of Ideas [212 words]DaveDec 7, 2017 18:12241489

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