3 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Arabian Monotheism Muhammadan's style And what happens when the barbarian invade the lands of the civilized

Reader comment on item: Dhimmis No More
in response to reader comment: Arabs, Copts and Goths

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Dec 26, 2017 at 16:56

Gato you wrote:

>I would like comment on this statement:[However, in the case of Egypt one would expect that the Arab invaders would have become Egyptian/Coptic speakers and would have converted to Coptic Christianity]

Then you wrote:

>Had Arab invaders been pagans as let's say Merovingian Franks they probably have converted to Coptic Christianity and adopted the Coptic language.

I think you need to read Carl Becker first in "Der Islam als Problem" in Der Islam 1 (1910) pages 1-20 You can also read G R Hawting's "John Wansbrough Islam and Monotheism" and what really happens when the barbarians invade the lands of the civilized Then let us take again

>However they came with their own version of the monotheist religion

There is no historical evidence that Islam existed before the Abbasids revolution in 750CE If you have evidence that Islam indeed existed prior to 750CE then I would like to see the evidence

As for Muhammadan monotheism it is very flawed and the Jews and the Meccan pagans knew that Muhammad's monotheism was flawed and it made it to al-Tabari exegesis of Surat al-Ikhlas where he indeed brings up the problem with Muhammadan monotheism that it is utterly flawed according to the Aristotelian logic and here is his tafsir you can use any translation tool and read

Muhammad's claims were refuted by the Jews and the pagans in Mecca as per al-Tabari who more likely than not was horrified by Muhammad's claims

It is good reading

Here is the link

http://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/tabary/sura112-aya1.html

Worse? the word احد Ahad in the verse means ONE OF So who are the other gods in addition to Allah? and the word صمد or Samad in 112:2 which has no meaning in Arabic is more likely than not Syriac ܨܡܕܐ Samada or bundle Allah the bundle (Trinity?) and here is the link

http://www.assyrianlanguages.org/sureth/dosearch.php?searchkey=12018&language=id

Muhammad was a plagiarist

Muhammad's monotheism does not make sense not back then and not now

>strongly connected to their ethnic roots(the first monotheist Abraham was reinterpreted as the forefather of Arabs)

Abraham of the OT and Ibrahim in the Qur'an are not the same and not even close

>and with very strong sense of mission and regarded the Coptic Christianity merely as an older, imperfect and corrupt form of their own monotheism

Your evidence? You need to read the study that I linked to the previous post

. >Secondly, Coptic was not the highest prestige language in Egypt,

Again the name of the language of Egypt is TmentRemnKemi This language existed for thousands of years and yes the language declined by the 13th century and was dead as a spoken language by the 17th century but it is still used as the language of liturgy to this day and Egyptian Arabic is full of loan words from the Egyptian language So why did the language of Egypt die? Do us a favor: provide evidence and flawed conclusion as you seem to do

>And the word Coptic or Qibt is derived from Arabic via Greek! Now you tell me again why did the language of Egypt die? Here to help you

https://www.amazon.com/Vanishing-Voices-Extinction-Worlds-Languages/dp/0195152468

You need to read first about why do languages vanish! So the language of Egypt die or is it still living in today's Arabic spoken in Egypt as well as in Coptic liturgy? Here is your chance to shine!

It is a small world our dear gato!

> it had a strong standing among Christian monks of mostly peasant origin but it had little intellectual production,

Could it be because it was their mother tongue? But again you are mixing many things here You need to read Bagnall's work on languages in Egypt in Late Antiquity first here is the link

www.amazon.com/Egypt-Late-Antiquity-Roger-Bagnall/dp/069101096X

>The language with the highest prestige in Egypt was Greek

Not really Greek was spoken widely in Alexandria as well as in the cities of the Egyptian Cora and bilingualism was not unusual You must pardon me but you have no clue about the languages spoken in Egypt before of after the Arab invasion

But the Greek language was dead in Egypt by the 9th century! Any guesses why? Enlighten me!

>but it was spoken by a tiny minority of upper classes which largely fled Egypt after the Muslim invasion

You need to read Bagnall and Christopher Haas's Alexnadria in Late antiquity first before uttering these very questionable and flawed statements by you Here is the link

https://www.amazon.com/Alexandria-Late-Antiquity-Topography-Conflict/dp/0801885418/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1514323494&sr=1-1&keywords=haas+alexandria
.
>Arabic, however, was regarded by Arabs as the language in which the Heaven and its Prophet themselves have spoken, thus in terms of prestige it largely outflanked Coptic.

Evidence? Hard and solid evidence and who cares what the Arabs and their so called prophet said or did not say It is called the mother language for a reason Right our dear gato? BTW The so called prophet of Islam said that Syriac is the language of heaven oh and also Arabic So was he a liar or was it just another Qissa?

Your above statement is silly

>An interesting parallel to this are the Goths who came to the Roman lands also with their own version of the monotheist religion, Arianism, but finally adopted the religion of the majority Roman population, the Roman Catholicism.

Why are you surprised? that is what Carl Becker is saying So you tell us why did the barbarians (the Arabs) not adopt the religion and the language of the civilized? Try again!

>An analysis of Goths and Arabs can be found in the "Hagarism" of Crone and Cook.

I doubt very much that you understood what Crone was saying! You need to read Becker first as well as Hawting! How many times do I have to say that?

>One of reasons of different destinies was the fact that Arabs could connect their monotheism with their tribal origins but Goths could not

Prove it! I'm waiting

Half knowledge is damn dangerous! .

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Arabian Monotheism Muhammadan's style And what happens when the barbarian invade the lands of the civilized by dhimmi no more

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)