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Need for Clarification

Reader comment on item: Peace Process or War Process?

Submitted by David ML (United States), Sep 24, 2009 at 22:15

Great article, excellent summary, thanks. Very helpful. But there is one area of disagreement, or perhaps a need for clarification:

you wrote: "...To survive, Israelis eventually must return to their pre-1993 policy of establishing that Israel is strong, tough, and permanent. That is achieved through deterrence — the tedious task of convincing Palestinians and others that the Jewish state will endure and that dreams of elimination must fail......(and further on in the article).....Israel does enjoy one piece of good fortune: It need only deter the Palestinians, not the whole Arab and Muslim populations. Moroccans, Iranians, Malaysians, and others take their cues from the Palestinians and with time will follow their lead. Israel's ultimate enemy, the one whose will it needs to crush, is roughly the same demographic size as itself.
"

The above statements imply that when the Palestinians perceive that Israel cannot be defeated, Israel will have won and the conflict will be ended. However, my understanding of the history of the conflict and the history of Islam leads me to conclude that:

a.) the need for deterrence goes way beyond the Palestinians; onward/outward to some of the key players in the Arab and non-Arab Muslim world (Arabia, Iran, Libya, Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt), and…..

b.) there is no military solution to this conflict because of "a".

When Israel defeated the PLO in Lebanon in 1982, it took the Ayatollah Ruholla Khoumeini only a few months to found, recruit, nurture, train, arm, expand and deploy Hizb'allah....and less than a year to turn it in to a formidable international terror force.

Now that the Saudis feel threatened by Iran and have withdrawn some support from Hamas, Iran happily fills that void and Hamas continues to grow in strength of arms and manpower, allied with Hizb'allah, and waiting for the next "right moment" to renew terrorism or renew qasams, or perpetrate more kidnappings.

Israel's recent Lebanon war resulted in a bigger, stronger (albeit more cautious) Hizb'allah which is now on the verge of taking over Lebanon....all thanks to Iran and Syria.

From the early 1950s to this day, Arab terrorism against Israel has been fed and incited and armed and supported and protected by various Arab nations and Iran (and sporadically other non-Arab Muslim nations).

As long as there are a few powerful and/or oil-rich Arab/Muslim states whose political situations and religious ideologies benefit from the conflict, there will be endless oil money to support the conflict, and there will be as well endless political backing to legitimize the terrorism in international circles and within international institutions.

Powerful as it is, Israel is not able to bludgeon in to unconditional surrender every belligerent Arab and/or Muslim state. And even if it were possible to do so, and Israel did so, how long would it take before a new generation of Jew-hater/Israel-hater Arab/Muslim leaders would arise and build from the ashes of their defeated predecessors a new coalition to renew Jihad and re-launch the war against Jihad's most consistently central and primary target? How long did it take for Hitler to build the third Reich on the ashes of the 2nd?

The success with Germany as a post-WW2 ally arose largely from the Allied forces willingness and ability to not only bring Germany to its knees, maintain the war until the surviving German leadership agreed to unconditional surrender, and crush Nazism, but also to manipulate into power a post-ww2 German leadership committed to peace with its former enemies and to the de-legitimization and repression of the former Nazi idealogues and ideology. Who in the West could put an end to the Islamic religious ideology of Jihad and of its theology of "Islam uber Alles" once Israel has brought about some sort of massive military victory?

The above is why Michael Oren says that there is no way that any military victory, no matter how conclusive, can end the conflict. There is no military solution.

There are enough Jihadist-terrorist-supporting Arab/Muslim states and enough money (thanks mostly to petroleum) to provide the support for a continued war (full scale war per Iran, terror war per Hamas and Hezb'allah, and political-social-intellectual-propaganda war per the PA's PASSIA funded by Arabia), until Israel's resources (human and material) are exhausted and Israel loses. As the Arab representatives at the Rhodes conference in 1949 said: "We Arabs can lose 40 wars. Israel can lose only 1."

There is enough of a culture of hatred, Jew-hatred and Israel-hatred, in much of the Arab, and some of the Muslim, world to provide the manpower for that continued war.

It will take generations, perhaps centuries, to undermine, attenuate, and ultimately reverse the Muslim tradition of Jew-hatred.....if it can be done at all (and given the current PC and pre-emptive dhimmi attitudes of western leaders, it does not seem likely that anyone will be committing much, if any, resources to initiate that task).

It is improbable, in my opinion, that any force in the West will be able to bring about reform in Islam, in order to replace the 1,375 year-old ideology of Jew-hatred and Kafir-hatred. So, the only real long-term effective way to end the conflict is to take away from the Muslim world its ability to put that ideology in to action.

Only by inventing or discovering a low-cost, efficient, clean, naturally renewable substitute for petroleum can the West bankrupt the oil-rich Jihadist Arab and non-Arab Muslim states.

The bankrupting of these states will not completely end the jihadist mentality of some significant part of the Muslim world....but terrorism is expensive; and the loss of oil revenue will make it much more difficult for the jihadist states to finance the jihad against Israel and the global jihad against western civilization. That will render the terrorist war much more manageable.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (47) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Little chance [274 words]PezDispenserSep 1, 2016 03:48232095
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1Darwin [417 words]that Blair was asked last October to address the cciuonl on his progress, but has not yet done so, nor has he set foot in Gaza. "We asked the cciuonl to invite Tony Blair to report to the cciuonl, like all the other envoys of the secretary-general reportMar 29, 2012 14:08194855
Peripheral Pseudo-Intellectualism= Platitudes & super Denial [225 words]Rosemarie ChaninMay 13, 2010 21:58172677
2yes, Israel must fight not to just survive to fight next year, but must fight and permanently defeat the muslims who would destroy all of Israel and genocide all of the Jews. April 2010 [244 words]Phil GreendApr 9, 2010 17:25171131
reply [47 words]Mio Navman M400DDec 17, 2009 23:52165980
backward logic [236 words]Jules PostenNov 5, 2009 18:10164086
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1Women in history were invisible soldiers. [242 words]LynnOct 20, 2009 08:43163267
Feminist aspect on the western pc-rot. [315 words]Gordon WeareOct 20, 2009 22:46163267
The new public-relations phrase: "non-Muslim peoples have the right to sovereignty" [38 words]ClarityOct 14, 2009 19:13163084
Obama's Isolationism Unveiled [904 words]Hans MolemanOct 5, 2009 16:49162646
Totally True (but I prefer the sound of the lie ) [140 words]Gordon WeareOct 19, 2009 21:24162646
the method [304 words]Charles B. CohenSep 29, 2009 15:40162315
When does a fight end? [205 words]Alex RevaiSep 27, 2009 13:37162192
In response to Alex Revai [264 words]DillahSep 28, 2009 16:31162192
Settlements convince Palestinians [60 words]Joakim FörarsSep 25, 2009 20:13162123
Need for Clarification [959 words]David MLSep 24, 2009 22:15162059
Demographics are still destiny and they are 100% against Israel [127 words]Charles MartelSep 23, 2009 17:10161973
Of course [89 words]Alan FoxSep 23, 2009 17:04161972
The Muslim problem... [46 words]donvanSep 23, 2009 21:36161972
Again from the UN [114 words]Seamus Dafydd Dives MacNemiSep 23, 2009 22:01161972
A splendin article Dr. Pipes and well put [192 words]Seamus Dafydd Dives MacNemiSep 23, 2009 16:27161969
Well Said, Mr. MacNemi [194 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 24, 2009 17:53161969
Quotations carry risks [64 words]Hans GuggenheimSep 22, 2009 17:21161929
Something is missing [127 words]Wallace Edward BrandSep 22, 2009 17:18161928
PEACE PROCESS OR WAR PROCESS [285 words]JACQUES HADIDASep 22, 2009 12:24161912
The right choices [100 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 22, 2009 11:40161909
The Great Oil War: A Vision for Core Strategic Victory [182 words]G MarcusSep 22, 2009 08:38161901
Still at least one more logic black hole [218 words]John BSep 22, 2009 07:17161897
Peace Process or War Process: Implications for a future democratic state. [154 words]Daphne BurdmanSep 22, 2009 04:34161893
You're right [58 words]Abu NudnikSep 22, 2009 02:08161886
But, Israeli Mentality has changed. [344 words]SvetSep 22, 2009 01:59161884
1Where is Victory [340 words]yuval Brandstetter MDSep 22, 2009 01:43161883
Victory, and Peace for Israel Comes at the Beckoning of Her LORD Almighty God [441 words]M. ToveySep 22, 2009 19:41161883
A Few Additional Comments [not to this piece but to 9/21/09 article, Peace Process or War Process] [773 words]Ron ThompsonSep 21, 2009 20:26161870
Splendid article. [8 words]PaulSep 21, 2009 16:59161857
The Destiny of Israel's Peace and the War Necessary to Bring It About. [546 words]M. ToveySep 21, 2009 16:29161855
UNRWA, considered [247 words]Solomon2Sep 21, 2009 15:27161854
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War and Peace [134 words]Nenette grunbergSep 21, 2009 15:21161853
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Peace Process or War Process [70 words]steven LSep 21, 2009 12:33161845
Choice of Extremes ? [310 words]Gordon WeareOct 21, 2009 17:22161845
Great article [72 words]Joan NeelSep 21, 2009 12:10161844
PEACE PROCESS OR WAR PROCESS [96 words]Kenneth S. PerlmanSep 21, 2009 11:11161841

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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