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A Few Additional Comments [not to this piece but to 9/21/09 article, Peace Process or War Process]

Reader comment on item: Peace Process or War Process?

Submitted by Ron Thompson (United States), Sep 21, 2009 at 20:26

A Few Additional Comments

Everything that follows, with one exception, is in 100% support and agreement with this longer-than-usual piece by Pipes.
First I've recently finished reading a 600 pg biography of Kemal Ataturk (2000, written by Andrew Mango), which I'm reminded of by Pipes' discussion of Palestinian "irredentism."

Among many other points I was struck by Ataturk's very deliberate and repeated rejection, which he sought to instill in the political dna of the population, and future leaders - NO to pan-Islam, and NO to pan-Turkism. In other words, he expressly rejected any form of irredentism, and did it so convincingly that he was able very quickly to bring the new nation of Turkey back to international respectability in place of the corpse of the Ottoman
Empire.

I was also struck by his increasing hostility to religion, especially Islam, on PRACTICAL grounds - it interfered with not just his policies but the very mindset he wanted for his countrymen in order that they might take their place in the modern world and not fall further behind than they already were before and after World War I.

Would that there were any single Muslim-born leader or prospective leader anywhere in the Middle East (or anywhere else for that matter in the Islamic world) capable of thinking in these terms.

Second, this piece might have cited the very unusual circumstance of four stories in recent days in the Washington Post which in import if not express purpose generally support, or at least are consistent with Pipes' thesis of Victory. Articles in the Post consistent with any of Pipes' views are very rare at all, let alone four in quick succession.

The first article, on Sunday, is an upbeat piece on Israel's growing proficiency in missile technology, so much so that any vestige of rationality left in the Iranian leadership must be increasingly worried that even one missile among many could get through to Israel before a devastating Israeli response (although this story could have a bit of a hidden agenda).

The second article, by the same reporter I think, pointed out that Obama's push to stop settlement construction has boomeranged in the sense that the population of Israel, instead of being made nervous about American support, has strongly rallied behind Netanyahu, so much so that his coalition
government now looks far less 'fragile' than it did when formed.

Third, and related, but in a 'pundit' piece, a Post editor wrote that Israel's refusal to buckle to US pressure has not produced the kind on international 'outrage' that usually happens whenever Israel defies 'consensus' opinion of what it must surrender in the fictitious name of being 'serious' about peace.

And fourth was a military piece (backing up why I've said, if I may mention it) that both of Israel's military actions, against Hezbollah in 2006 and Gaza last January now (mysteriously!) look much more like victories than either did at the time. As I wrote somewhere at the time, a reasonably sensible use of a DELIBERATE disproportion of violence - that is, nothing annihilationist, but definitely not linited to tit-for-tit either - seemed entirely sensible,
especially in Lebanon, and without regard to the howls of those who refuse to take the challenges Israel faces seriously.

With regard to the single point of disagreement, I think it should be part of a call for outright victory that one outcome, instead of just waiting for the Palestinians to admit and realize they are defeated - and that Israel is there not only to stay, but to contribute mightily to the whole region's development if allowed to - might just be that the Palestinians might have to be relocated, either by incentives or by harsher attritionist means. As
another friend said (not my regular Jewish advisor friend), of course the Palestinians deserve a land of their own - just not in Palestine. She suggested that Saudi Arabia might give a chunk of its unused land near some coast, perhaps to be made viable with huge Israeli and international
health, rather as Israel is doing on its own in the Negev.

Although I do not suggest it as a strict precedent, I recall from the Ataturk biography that the problem of Greek and Turkish irreconcilability in northwestern Anatolia (northwestern Turkey) was finally and irreversibly settled by a wholesale relocation of Greeks from an area they had inhabited, as a developed culture far, far longer than the "Palestinians" in Palestine.

If unremitting hostility continues, or larger scale violence returns, let alone if the Iranian nuclear threat gets more imminent, relocation of this disastrously led population should not be unthinkable.

Ron Thompson

Submitting....

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Reader comments (47) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Little chance [274 words]PezDispenserSep 1, 2016 03:48232095
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reply [47 words]Mio Navman M400DDec 17, 2009 23:52165980
backward logic [236 words]Jules PostenNov 5, 2009 18:10164086
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Feminist aspect on the western pc-rot. [315 words]Gordon WeareOct 20, 2009 22:46163267
The new public-relations phrase: "non-Muslim peoples have the right to sovereignty" [38 words]ClarityOct 14, 2009 19:13163084
Obama's Isolationism Unveiled [904 words]Hans MolemanOct 5, 2009 16:49162646
Totally True (but I prefer the sound of the lie ) [140 words]Gordon WeareOct 19, 2009 21:24162646
the method [304 words]Charles B. CohenSep 29, 2009 15:40162315
When does a fight end? [205 words]Alex RevaiSep 27, 2009 13:37162192
In response to Alex Revai [264 words]DillahSep 28, 2009 16:31162192
Settlements convince Palestinians [60 words]Joakim FörarsSep 25, 2009 20:13162123
Need for Clarification [959 words]David MLSep 24, 2009 22:15162059
Demographics are still destiny and they are 100% against Israel [127 words]Charles MartelSep 23, 2009 17:10161973
Of course [89 words]Alan FoxSep 23, 2009 17:04161972
The Muslim problem... [46 words]donvanSep 23, 2009 21:36161972
Again from the UN [114 words]Seamus Dafydd Dives MacNemiSep 23, 2009 22:01161972
A splendin article Dr. Pipes and well put [192 words]Seamus Dafydd Dives MacNemiSep 23, 2009 16:27161969
Well Said, Mr. MacNemi [194 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 24, 2009 17:53161969
Quotations carry risks [64 words]Hans GuggenheimSep 22, 2009 17:21161929
Something is missing [127 words]Wallace Edward BrandSep 22, 2009 17:18161928
PEACE PROCESS OR WAR PROCESS [285 words]JACQUES HADIDASep 22, 2009 12:24161912
The right choices [100 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 22, 2009 11:40161909
The Great Oil War: A Vision for Core Strategic Victory [182 words]G MarcusSep 22, 2009 08:38161901
Still at least one more logic black hole [218 words]John BSep 22, 2009 07:17161897
Peace Process or War Process: Implications for a future democratic state. [154 words]Daphne BurdmanSep 22, 2009 04:34161893
You're right [58 words]Abu NudnikSep 22, 2009 02:08161886
But, Israeli Mentality has changed. [344 words]SvetSep 22, 2009 01:59161884
1Where is Victory [340 words]yuval Brandstetter MDSep 22, 2009 01:43161883
Victory, and Peace for Israel Comes at the Beckoning of Her LORD Almighty God [441 words]M. ToveySep 22, 2009 19:41161883
A Few Additional Comments [not to this piece but to 9/21/09 article, Peace Process or War Process] [773 words]Ron ThompsonSep 21, 2009 20:26161870
Splendid article. [8 words]PaulSep 21, 2009 16:59161857
The Destiny of Israel's Peace and the War Necessary to Bring It About. [546 words]M. ToveySep 21, 2009 16:29161855
UNRWA, considered [247 words]Solomon2Sep 21, 2009 15:27161854
Don't expect much... [20 words]Sylvia ScottSep 27, 2009 03:03161854
War and Peace [134 words]Nenette grunbergSep 21, 2009 15:21161853
Unlikely recipes [478 words]Marshall OnellionSep 21, 2009 12:40161846
Peace Process or War Process [70 words]steven LSep 21, 2009 12:33161845
Choice of Extremes ? [310 words]Gordon WeareOct 21, 2009 17:22161845
Great article [72 words]Joan NeelSep 21, 2009 12:10161844
PEACE PROCESS OR WAR PROCESS [96 words]Kenneth S. PerlmanSep 21, 2009 11:11161841

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