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Reader comment on item: Islam vs. Islamism (article)
in response to reader comment: "Saudi Arabia will return to moderate, open Islam"
Submitted by M Tovey (United States), Mar 15, 2021 at 19:58
Virtually the entirety of humanity from the times of the Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians and ancient Egyptians, et al, have been under the influences of some form of religious leadership, either in reality or perception of a higher authority than mortal mankind, submission to such almost always requiring obeisance or facing penalties for rebellion to the higher power. Islam, even though coming in far later in history follows that premise pretty much in proforma to almost all forms of religious perceptions; there is one that stands out as being somewhat different, but let us come to that later. Dr. Pipes' attempt (a much thoughtful approach) to engage the conversation of how and why does Islam seem to press a difference, but cannot prove it.
For all the arguments that Islam appears to some as being the most logical deference to deity, the inconsistencies inherent in Islam is a tell; even in the recent twenty years of this perennial discussion, no one is any closer to making the defining distinction; and with much respect to Dr. Pipes' introspection, the answer is still no closer to resolution until one realizes that Islam does bring humanity to its knees for the lack of love for humanity-it is ingrained in its teaching and for those who cannot make a distinction for the apparent trend towards its violence, death to all does not bring peace to any society. Those in Islam that eschew the violence are considered apostate.
In complete controversy, the only 'religious' observances that have any hope of bring humanity any peace is that which was spoken by the architect of Christianity, in following the true words of the Christ Himself, and not the blasphemous and pretentious misrepresentations of centuries of false Christianity, which by the way in its apostate form, practically invited Islam to push against the message of the true Gospel and caused those same centuries to be episode of death and destruction by trying to kill off the base society that brought Christianity to existence, the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the same insanity of anti-Semitism and death to Jews that reeks in world forums today. SO the questions still remains: is the Islam we see today that challenges the world against Israel any different now than when it first embarked on trying to be the replacement religion in the world. The answer lays in the truth we see today. It will be more apparent when the battle for the Jewish Temple Mount commences. Today, even the Saudis will be required to make that observation. The Abrahamic Accords were a start; but not all embraced that, right?
Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".
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Title | Commenter | Date | Thread |
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1 | Definition or Meaning of "Islamism" beginning in 1747. [181 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Ludvikus | Feb 10, 2022 00:22 | 278810 | |
1 | Islamism as an Ideology [399 words] | Ludvikus | Feb 8, 2022 10:20 | 278764 | |
"Saudi Arabia will return to moderate, open Islam" [54 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | PezDispenser | Oct 25, 2017 01:21 | 241152 | ||
![]() | M Tovey | Mar 15, 2021 19:58 | 241152 | ||
2 | Terrorism is Normative, nor "Radical" in Islam [2322 words] | Uncle Vladdi | Feb 14, 2015 02:57 | 221058 | |
1 | ![]() | Dajjal | Feb 17, 2015 02:21 | 221058 | |
![]() | 1 | Muslim apostates exit even in Saudi Arabia [500 words] | dhimmi no more | May 18, 2014 12:35 | 214875 |
true political islam = westerm liberal democracy (3/4 rashodoun kalipha (somewhat) elected) [123 words] | hussain | Jan 10, 2014 15:45 | 212571 | ||
3 | Islam is islam [90 words] | albert snow | Jun 13, 2013 06:17 | 206939 | |
5 | ![]() | Jonathan Livingstone Seagull | Jul 21, 2013 01:12 | 206939 | |
Islamism; The Tool of Totalitarians. [132 words] | Karimi Karim | Jun 10, 2013 10:29 | 206871 | ||
2 | Islamist and not-Islamist [114 words] | Ameer (Istanbul) | Jun 4, 2013 21:50 | 206688 | |
2 | Low level islamic terrorism [34 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Vijay | May 29, 2013 07:52 | 206558 | |
7 | As i browse [77 words] | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 24, 2013 22:59 | 206311 | |
4 | Muhammad of the Medina period [63 words] | marlan | May 23, 2013 04:32 | 206246 | |
![]() | Prashant | Apr 24, 2017 04:32 | 206246 | ||
1 | pro-Sharia does not necessarily means islamist [45 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Gato Branco | May 23, 2013 02:36 | 206244 | |
16 | Let us call a spade a spade [583 words] | Lorthog | May 22, 2013 22:42 | 206242 | |
4 | ![]() | Domenic Pepe | May 24, 2013 09:29 | 206242 | |
Muhammad of the Medina period ? [63 words] | marlan | May 22, 2013 18:22 | 206238 | ||
Not so much successful [671 words] | Gato Branco | May 22, 2013 03:52 | 206221 | ||
Islam and Islamism are the same ideology and religion [371 words] | Martin Weidhaas | May 21, 2013 01:02 | 206197 | ||
10 | Monumetal Odds [104 words] | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 20, 2013 04:45 | 206186 | |
I am non-plussed at Daniel's position on Islamism vs Islam. [122 words] | Michael Mckee | May 20, 2013 02:31 | 206182 | ||
3 | What can we learn from Egypt again [198 words] | dhimmi no more | May 19, 2013 15:21 | 206172 | |
![]() | Ali Baba | May 23, 2013 16:16 | 206172 | ||
3 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 24, 2013 17:44 | 206172 | |
4 | "peaceful sufis"?? [38 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Viola Briatkova | May 19, 2013 14:26 | 206170 | |
3 | ![]() | Jaladhi | May 22, 2013 20:57 | 206170 | |
10 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 26, 2013 07:17 | 206170 | |
2 | ![]() | Jaladhi | May 28, 2013 16:48 | 206170 | |
1 | A Muslim-free Islam debate [39 words] | Robert Wielaard | May 19, 2013 02:59 | 206159 | |
10 | Islamism is nothing but Jihad and all Muslims follow it!! [125 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Jaladhi | May 18, 2013 17:56 | 206151 | |
1 | ![]() | Valin | May 18, 2013 19:13 | 206151 | |
5 | ![]() | Tom | May 22, 2013 11:52 | 206151 | |
6 | ![]() | Jaladhi | May 22, 2013 18:27 | 206151 | |
![]() | Valin | May 25, 2013 07:43 | 206151 | ||
![]() | Valin | May 25, 2013 07:48 | 206151 | ||
![]() | Froike | Jun 21, 2013 12:14 | 206151 | ||
![]() | akt | Mar 8, 2015 08:07 | 206151 | ||
22 | Dr. Pipes is mistaken [576 words] | Lorthog | May 18, 2013 02:24 | 206138 | |
5 | ![]() | Domenic Pepe | May 19, 2013 15:18 | 206138 | |
3 | ![]() | Dian Kjaergaard | May 20, 2013 18:04 | 206138 | |
![]() | akt | Mar 4, 2015 10:07 | 206138 | ||
4 | Question your "(islamists) have an impact beyond their limited numbers [65 words] | Alan Kushnir | May 17, 2013 21:07 | 206131 | |
1 | how instrumental is the Left? [191 words] | myth | May 17, 2013 16:24 | 206126 | |
7 | I think Mr. Pipes is somewhat off about why Islam was adopted by so many. [255 words] | JB | May 17, 2013 01:45 | 206114 | |
7 | ![]() | Ianus | May 18, 2013 02:57 | 206114 | |
1 | ![]() | JB | May 19, 2013 04:03 | 206114 | |
5 | ![]() | Domenic Pepe | May 19, 2013 18:18 | 206114 | |
![]() | JB | May 24, 2013 11:22 | 206114 | ||
5 | Islam vs. Islamism [173 words] | Bart Benschop | May 16, 2013 23:52 | 206112 | |
-ism [24 words] | Eugene | May 16, 2013 14:44 | 206105 | ||
9 | Islam vs Islamism - good cop vs bad cop [202 words] | Danny Green | May 16, 2013 10:31 | 206098 | |
1 | Not Moderate Muslims, but DEMOCRATIC Muslims [330 words] | Demolan | May 16, 2013 09:15 | 206096 | |
2 | ![]() | leigh | May 18, 2013 05:31 | 206096 | |
4 | Why not to make some parallels [45 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Roman | May 15, 2013 22:10 | 206083 | |
3 | ![]() | myth | May 16, 2013 05:26 | 206083 | |
18 | ![]() | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 17, 2013 19:05 | 206083 | |
4 | ![]() | Tom | May 17, 2013 23:53 | 206083 | |
![]() | Shishir | May 21, 2013 02:05 | 206083 | ||
4 | Was Mahomet a terrorist ? [49 words] | Ianus | May 15, 2013 18:26 | 206080 | |
6 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 16, 2013 06:31 | 206080 | |
8 | ![]() | Ianus | May 18, 2013 02:21 | 206080 | |
4 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 18, 2013 06:01 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | Reporter | May 19, 2013 04:17 | 206080 | |
9 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 19, 2013 08:40 | 206080 | |
4 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 21, 2013 07:36 | 206080 | |
3 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 21, 2013 15:54 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | Tom | May 22, 2013 19:41 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | Reporter | May 25, 2013 02:04 | 206080 | |
![]() | Report | May 25, 2013 02:08 | 206080 | ||
2 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 26, 2013 07:47 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 26, 2013 08:01 | 206080 | |
![]() | Reporter | May 27, 2013 02:25 | 206080 | ||
1 | ![]() | Reporter | May 27, 2013 02:33 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | Reporter | May 27, 2013 02:41 | 206080 | |
2 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 28, 2013 07:02 | 206080 | |
1 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 28, 2013 07:59 | 206080 | |
3 | ![]() | dhimmi no more | May 30, 2013 07:20 | 206080 | |
![]() | Tom | Jun 14, 2013 13:50 | 206080 | ||
![]() | Reporter | Jun 16, 2013 16:23 | 206080 | ||
8 | the flaw in Pipe's argument [78 words] | Martin E. Weinstein | May 15, 2013 12:35 | 206076 | |
1 | ![]() | myth | May 17, 2013 08:40 | 206076 | |
4 | Correct analysis, one false conclusion possibly [669 words] | Alexandros | May 15, 2013 05:51 | 206070 | |
2 | Islam or Islamism? [101 words] | Michal | May 15, 2013 04:34 | 206069 | |
4 | Peaceful military conquest? [178 words] | Hrishi | May 15, 2013 01:32 | 206068 | |
2 | Islam's Two Futures are Related to Islam and Islamism [260 words] | Randall B | May 15, 2013 01:01 | 206065 | |
4 | The West not to blame for Islamism [236 words] | M Taylor | May 14, 2013 23:35 | 206062 | |
7 | Christianism and Islamism [436 words] | There is NO Santa Claus | May 14, 2013 23:30 | 206061 | |
![]() | Randall B | May 16, 2013 02:31 | 206061 | ||
2 | ![]() | Tom | May 17, 2013 14:25 | 206061 | |
Could Muslims themselves in big numbers not realise their chance of winning in the West is remote and change? [357 words] | Demolan | May 14, 2013 22:48 | 206059 | ||
2 | We keep waiting for the 85% moderate moderate muslims to speak out against islamism. [25 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Phil Greend | May 14, 2013 21:08 | 206056 | |
2 | ![]() | Prashant | May 16, 2013 12:20 | 206056 | |
6 | ![]() | akt | May 17, 2013 21:07 | 206056 | |
3 | Islamic Believers versus the Lukewarm [244 words] | J Glueck | May 14, 2013 19:20 | 206055 | |
4 | ![]() | Ianus | May 18, 2013 08:38 | 206055 | |
3 | In what do Islamists differ from Muhammad? [44 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Mladen Andrijasevic | May 14, 2013 17:06 | 206054 | |
![]() | Prashant | May 16, 2013 12:14 | 206054 | ||
![]() | Hamza | May 8, 2015 16:33 | 206054 | ||
Serious Discussion [59 words] | Nick | May 14, 2013 11:59 | 206051 | ||
thanks and then some [309 words] | john w. mcginley | May 14, 2013 07:59 | 206040 | ||
9 | There is only one Islam and it is not pretty [232 words] | dhimmi no more | May 14, 2013 07:12 | 206039 | |
2 | islamization yes or no [106 words] | myth | May 14, 2013 05:46 | 206035 | |
1 | more distinctions in the islamic spectrum, more tactics needed [425 words] | myth | May 14, 2013 05:15 | 206034 | |
How do you define moderate Islam? Doesnt moderation often lead to apostasy as Muslims,not just Islamists fear? [169 words] | Shishir | May 14, 2013 03:25 | 206032 | ||
![]() | AAA | May 18, 2013 23:44 | 206032 | ||
1 | Islam vs Jihadism [147 words] | Dean Mohr | May 14, 2013 00:49 | 206027 | |
25 | It is just a Double Paradox [129 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 14, 2013 00:45 | 206026 | |
20 | ![]() | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 16, 2013 09:23 | 206026 | |
5 | ![]() | There is NO Santa Claus | May 17, 2013 08:02 | 206026 | |
7 | ![]() | myth | May 17, 2013 16:45 | 206026 | |
22 | ![]() | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 18, 2013 04:41 | 206026 | |
7 | ![]() | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 18, 2013 20:25 | 206026 | |
3 | Most non-Islamist Muslims are not anti-Islamists [64 words] | Arthur Cohn | May 14, 2013 00:15 | 206024 | |
![]() | Gato Branco | May 22, 2013 04:19 | 206024 | ||
4 | History, when wrong, must be criticized [516 words] | Prashant | May 13, 2013 23:50 | 206023 | |
3 | integration of Muslims into western society's concept of government, [424 words] | rodney allsworth | May 13, 2013 23:14 | 206022 | |
1 | Solution to Islamism [20 words] | Gary Clarke | May 13, 2013 21:48 | 206017 | |
Defeating Islamism [12 words] | Clifford Ishii | May 13, 2013 21:48 | 206016 | ||
2 | Accurate analysis. [137 words] | Lucretius | May 13, 2013 18:54 | 206010 | |
32 | Almost getting there, and then the familiar U-turn [1127 words] | Ron Thompson | May 13, 2013 16:43 | 206008 | |
4 | ![]() | Bruria Rimoni | May 13, 2013 23:03 | 206008 | |
5 | ![]() | Domenic Pepe | May 14, 2013 11:57 | 206008 | |
5 | ![]() | K T Thomas | May 15, 2013 11:35 | 206008 | |
2 | ![]() | Ron Thompson | May 16, 2013 21:01 | 206008 | |
6 | ![]() | Ron Thompson | May 16, 2013 23:54 | 206008 | |
![]() | stanley b | May 17, 2013 23:31 | 206008 | ||
1 | ![]() | Demolan | May 18, 2013 02:36 | 206008 | |
5 | ![]() | Michael Hanni Morcos | May 18, 2013 19:45 | 206008 | |
12 | Symptom or disease? [150 words] | Doug Mayfield | May 13, 2013 15:21 | 206007 | |
5 | The crisis of faith isn't new: [134 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Jason Pappas | May 13, 2013 14:19 | 206004 | |
69 | The Killer Answer to Defeating islam itself [546 words] | Domenic Pepe | May 13, 2013 14:11 | 206003 | |
1 | ![]() | gary Clarke | May 14, 2013 00:32 | 206003 | |
5 | ![]() | Tom | May 14, 2013 11:36 | 206003 | |
2 | ![]() | Albert Shanker | May 15, 2013 00:04 | 206003 | |
1 | ![]() | Ron Thompson | May 16, 2013 20:41 | 206003 | |
1 | ![]() | Mark | May 29, 2013 02:11 | 206003 | |
![]() | Mark | Jun 3, 2013 21:23 | 206003 | ||
![]() | sleepless | Jun 13, 2013 20:59 | 206003 | ||
![]() | Tom | Jun 18, 2013 14:16 | 206003 | ||
![]() | mbplee | Jul 18, 2013 04:31 | 206003 | ||
1 | ![]() | Prashant | Jul 19, 2013 02:24 | 206003 | |
1 | ![]() | Domenic Pepe | Jul 20, 2013 17:04 | 206003 | |
![]() | Jim Jennings | Nov 28, 2013 19:39 | 206003 | ||
![]() | Bruno | Dec 7, 2013 05:38 | 206003 | ||
3 | ![]() w/response from Daniel Pipes | Domenic Pepe | Dec 9, 2013 00:03 | 206003 | |
![]() | Leo | Aug 18, 2014 08:05 | 206003 | ||
6 | Islam vs. Islamism [142 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Gunther H. Sciff | May 13, 2013 13:47 | 206002 | |
1 | Great analysis [59 words] | Bruce Birnberg | May 13, 2013 12:56 | 206001 | |
4 | Not even as simple as Dr Pipes complicated position [124 words] | M.Orbuch | May 13, 2013 12:55 | 206000 | |
7 | Islam by any other name is anti-reason [316 words] | Edward Cline | May 13, 2013 12:51 | 205999 | |
2 | ![]() | sara | May 13, 2013 19:34 | 205999 | |
4 | ![]() | Edward Cline | May 13, 2013 20:24 | 205999 | |
![]() | thomas | May 14, 2013 05:59 | 205999 | ||
![]() | Lynn | May 14, 2013 09:20 | 205999 | ||
1 | ![]() | sara | May 16, 2013 00:26 | 205999 | |
1 | "Islamism" is but part of a dimension [183 words] | Michael Vanyukov | May 13, 2013 12:12 | 205998 | |
4 | Islam vs Islamism! The cameleon! [89 words] | Steven L | May 13, 2013 11:56 | 205997 | |
1 | ![]() | Lars Nielsen | May 14, 2013 04:27 | 205997 | |
3 | ![]() | Steven L | May 16, 2013 11:20 | 205997 | |
![]() | nightcry | Apr 22, 2017 12:44 | 205997 | ||
![]() | Lars Nielsen | Apr 24, 2017 06:13 | 205997 | ||
Completely agree but... [152 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Lory | May 13, 2013 11:56 | 205996 | ||
3 | Ah, The Killer Question... [224 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Soloview | May 13, 2013 11:05 | 205995 | |
10 | Who with sane mind wants to live in a Moslem state? [50 words] | NuritG | May 13, 2013 11:01 | 205994 | |
1 | ![]() | Thomas | May 14, 2013 06:03 | 205994 | |
![]() | Jaladhi | May 18, 2013 18:12 | 205994 | ||
1 | Distributions need to be understood [386 words] | Amit Srivastava | May 13, 2013 10:48 | 205993 | |
2 | Where are the "moderates." [70 words] | Carey Page | May 13, 2013 10:27 | 205992 | |
2 | Hope is not a strategy for change [101 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | Barry Wolfe | May 13, 2013 10:27 | 205991 | |
3 | "what went wrong" [158 words] | Tom | May 13, 2013 10:18 | 205989 | |
6 | There is only one Islam - and it must go, it really must go [700 words] | TL Winslow | May 13, 2013 10:11 | 205988 | |
16 | What differentiates Islam from other religions [188 words] | G Marcus | May 13, 2013 10:07 | 205987 | |
![]() | Thomas | May 14, 2013 06:07 | 205987 | ||
3 | ![]() | Tom | May 17, 2013 23:19 | 205987 | |
9 | Several polls have shown that a plurality of Moslems support the radicals [189 words] w/response from Daniel Pipes | David S | May 13, 2013 10:00 | 205986 | |
1 | IFF - Identify Friend or Foe. Support friend, fight foe. [477 words] | Yeshayhu Hollander | May 13, 2013 09:57 | 205985 |