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I think Mr. Pipes is somewhat off about why Islam was adopted by so many.

Reader comment on item: Islam vs. Islamism (article)

Submitted by JB (Canada), May 17, 2013 at 01:45

Islam is a very tough discipline, and people do not take such things up because it's winning adherents. That begs the question. It won adherents because it believed in using force to effect compliance. Today it gets new support from prisoners or the disadvantaged, because it has wealth and a vast propaganda system. These gains are not major in extent, but increasing.

Historically it was not moral suasion that caused "submission". It was the sword. All Muslims know this, although they also believe that they have other convincing arguments, but wherever they can they believe in the use of force. If they could not, they were peaceful Muslims. The Islamists believe they can. They believe they have the power. What gives them this belief I leave up to the reader to interpret, but one of those things is that they have been getting away with a lot, because liberal thinkers and universalists have allowed them to do so. Unless those Islamists are persuaded that they cannot win, they would surely feel remiss if they would not try. To persuade them that Islam cannot win today by force is the job of all decent people, including those Muslims that functionally do not believe it. Unless aggressive action is taken, coupled with conciliation for those who reluctantly accept that "Submission" is not to be imposed on the world and that other methods are preferable. The truth is that I do not believe that this can happen, the extremists will continue, and Islam is heading for a fall.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (179) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Definition or Meaning of "Islamism" beginning in 1747. [181 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
LudvikusFeb 10, 2022 00:22278810
1Islamism as an Ideology [399 words]LudvikusFeb 8, 2022 10:20278764
"Saudi Arabia will return to moderate, open Islam" [54 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserOct 25, 2017 01:21241152
Retrovision - Does Islam Today Represent Islam of any Prior Age? [437 words]M ToveyMar 15, 2021 19:58241152
2Terrorism is Normative, nor "Radical" in Islam [2322 words]Uncle VladdiFeb 14, 2015 02:57221058
1"Islamism" [173 words]DajjalFeb 17, 2015 02:21221058
1Muslim apostates exit even in Saudi Arabia [500 words]dhimmi no moreMay 18, 2014 12:35214875
true political islam = westerm liberal democracy (3/4 rashodoun kalipha (somewhat) elected) [123 words]hussainJan 10, 2014 15:45212571
3Islam is islam [90 words]albert snowJun 13, 2013 06:17206939
5A muslim is a muslim is a muslim [253 words]Jonathan Livingstone SeagullJul 21, 2013 01:12206939
Islamism; The Tool of Totalitarians. [132 words]Karimi KarimJun 10, 2013 10:29206871
2Islamist and not-Islamist [114 words]Ameer (Istanbul)Jun 4, 2013 21:50206688
2Low level islamic terrorism [34 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
VijayMay 29, 2013 07:52206558
7As i browse [77 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 24, 2013 22:59206311
4Muhammad of the Medina period [63 words]marlanMay 23, 2013 04:32206246
Muhammad in the Medina period [46 words]PrashantApr 24, 2017 04:32206246
1pro-Sharia does not necessarily means islamist [45 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gato BrancoMay 23, 2013 02:36206244
16Let us call a spade a spade [583 words]LorthogMay 22, 2013 22:42206242
4Real Confrontation of Lunatic islamism is Absolutely Required [97 words]Domenic PepeMay 24, 2013 09:29206242
Muhammad of the Medina period ? [63 words]marlanMay 22, 2013 18:22206238
Not so much successful [671 words]Gato BrancoMay 22, 2013 03:52206221
Islam and Islamism are the same ideology and religion [371 words]Martin WeidhaasMay 21, 2013 01:02206197
10Monumetal Odds [104 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 20, 2013 04:45206186
I am non-plussed at Daniel's position on Islamism vs Islam. [122 words]Michael MckeeMay 20, 2013 02:31206182
3What can we learn from Egypt again [198 words]dhimmi no moreMay 19, 2013 15:21206172
My forced conversion [35 words]Ali BabaMay 23, 2013 16:16206172
3Victims of Arabian imperialism [422 words]dhimmi no moreMay 24, 2013 17:44206172
4"peaceful sufis"?? [38 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Viola BriatkovaMay 19, 2013 14:26206170
3Peaceful Sufis - yup, just as peaceful as Sunnis and Shias!! [151 words]JaladhiMay 22, 2013 20:57206170
10Sufis are hypocrites and they are paying for it [297 words]dhimmi no moreMay 26, 2013 07:17206170
2Peaceful Sufis_- Not!! [285 words]JaladhiMay 28, 2013 16:48206170
1A Muslim-free Islam debate [39 words]Robert WielaardMay 19, 2013 02:59206159
10Islamism is nothing but Jihad and all Muslims follow it!! [125 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JaladhiMay 18, 2013 17:56206151
1So what is the answer [85 words]ValinMay 18, 2013 19:13206151
5Must we really be making excuses for Islam? [218 words]TomMay 22, 2013 11:52206151
6Spread the truth about Islam far and wide!!! [263 words]JaladhiMay 22, 2013 18:27206151
A reply [261 words]ValinMay 25, 2013 07:43206151
The Truth? [13 words]ValinMay 25, 2013 07:48206151
What the future looks like: [108 words]FroikeJun 21, 2013 12:14206151
defeating the Islamists [44 words]aktMar 8, 2015 08:07206151
22Dr. Pipes is mistaken [576 words]LorthogMay 18, 2013 02:24206138
5America Betrayed by Its Own Leadership [585 words]Domenic PepeMay 19, 2013 15:18206138
3Caught between a rock and a hard place? [335 words]Dian KjaergaardMay 20, 2013 18:04206138
secularists in India [13 words]aktMar 4, 2015 10:07206138
4Question your "(islamists) have an impact beyond their limited numbers [65 words]Alan KushnirMay 17, 2013 21:07206131
1how instrumental is the Left? [191 words]mythMay 17, 2013 16:24206126
7I think Mr. Pipes is somewhat off about why Islam was adopted by so many. [255 words]JBMay 17, 2013 01:45206114
7"liberal thinkers and universalists" or the grand US strategy to help worldwide Islamists fight kafirs [203 words]IanusMay 18, 2013 02:57206114
1There is much in what Dreyfuss has to say but I do not think that US sins against [86 words]JBMay 19, 2013 04:03206114
5American Power as the saudi/islamic Mercenary Army [294 words]Domenic PepeMay 19, 2013 18:18206114
Obama's speech on terrorism: Yes, they can! [115 words]JBMay 24, 2013 11:22206114
5Islam vs. Islamism [173 words]Bart BenschopMay 16, 2013 23:52206112
-ism [24 words]EugeneMay 16, 2013 14:44206105
9Islam vs Islamism - good cop vs bad cop [202 words]Danny GreenMay 16, 2013 10:31206098
1Not Moderate Muslims, but DEMOCRATIC Muslims [330 words]DemolanMay 16, 2013 09:15206096
2democracy/rule of law [79 words]leighMay 18, 2013 05:31206096
4Why not to make some parallels [45 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RomanMay 15, 2013 22:10206083
3some parallels in West Germany post 1945 [406 words]mythMay 16, 2013 05:26206083
18More insights [93 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 17, 2013 19:05206083
4Anti-Islam [100 words]TomMay 17, 2013 23:53206083
will the victory of anti Islamists have similar consequences for Muslims as Germans and Russians today [120 words]ShishirMay 21, 2013 02:05206083
4Was Mahomet a terrorist ? [49 words]IanusMay 15, 2013 18:26206080
6The founder of Islam and history [259 words]dhimmi no moreMay 16, 2013 06:31206080
8If Mahomet was a terrorist and all Moslems want to be like Mahomet , then ... let's forget the politically correct ruse of "Islam vs. Islamism" . [109 words]IanusMay 18, 2013 02:21206080
4Slight correction [89 words]dhimmi no moreMay 18, 2013 06:01206080
1I encourage everyone to read Sirat Al-Rasul [174 words]ReporterMay 19, 2013 04:17206080
9Islam, anti-blasphemy laws. the Benghazi atrocity and our leaders that are beyond help [410 words]dhimmi no moreMay 19, 2013 08:40206080
4Our dear reporter is saying that Muhammad was a warlord for only 10 years! What a disaster [966 words]dhimmi no moreMay 21, 2013 07:36206080
3And I encourage you our dear reporter to leave islam and the Arabs and their imperialism [63 words]dhimmi no moreMay 21, 2013 15:54206080
1Read the koran now [62 words]TomMay 22, 2013 19:41206080
1Ibn Is-haq and Ibn Hisham [96 words]ReporterMay 25, 2013 02:04206080
The truth is next to you [96 words]ReportMay 25, 2013 02:08206080
2The victims of Arabian imperialism [354 words]dhimmi no moreMay 26, 2013 07:47206080
1Victims of Arabian imperialism [362 words]dhimmi no moreMay 26, 2013 08:01206080
Al-Tableghee dhimmi ...... [22 words]ReporterMay 27, 2013 02:25206080
1Mr. Tabligheee [116 words]ReporterMay 27, 2013 02:33206080
1pribed Tabligheeee [97 words]ReporterMay 27, 2013 02:41206080
2Exposing ignorant tablighees and wannabe Arabs [312 words]dhimmi no moreMay 28, 2013 07:02206080
1Exposing ignorant tablighees and wannabe Arabs again [639 words]dhimmi no moreMay 28, 2013 07:59206080
3Lost tablighees and islam is the religion of the Arabs only [553 words]dhimmi no moreMay 30, 2013 07:20206080
Not true [271 words]TomJun 14, 2013 13:50206080
Muhammad battles [917 words]ReporterJun 16, 2013 16:23206080
8the flaw in Pipe's argument [78 words]Martin E. WeinsteinMay 15, 2013 12:35206076
1organizing the majority against a minority in power [81 words]mythMay 17, 2013 08:40206076
4Correct analysis, one false conclusion possibly [669 words]AlexandrosMay 15, 2013 05:51206070
2Islam or Islamism? [101 words]MichalMay 15, 2013 04:34206069
4Peaceful military conquest? [178 words]HrishiMay 15, 2013 01:32206068
2Islam's Two Futures are Related to Islam and Islamism [260 words]Randall BMay 15, 2013 01:01206065
4The West not to blame for Islamism [236 words]M TaylorMay 14, 2013 23:35206062
7Christianism and Islamism [436 words]There is NO Santa ClausMay 14, 2013 23:30206061
for 'NO Santa Claus' [56 words]Randall BMay 16, 2013 02:31206061
2weak comparison [198 words]TomMay 17, 2013 14:25206061
Could Muslims themselves in big numbers not realise their chance of winning in the West is remote and change? [357 words]DemolanMay 14, 2013 22:48206059
2We keep waiting for the 85% moderate moderate muslims to speak out against islamism. [25 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Phil GreendMay 14, 2013 21:08206056
2On who does the onus fall? [73 words]PrashantMay 16, 2013 12:20206056
6Moderate vs Radical Islamists [91 words]aktMay 17, 2013 21:07206056
3Islamic Believers versus the Lukewarm [244 words]J GlueckMay 14, 2013 19:20206055
4America and Islamism - friends for ever [134 words]IanusMay 18, 2013 08:38206055
3In what do Islamists differ from Muhammad? [44 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Mladen AndrijasevicMay 14, 2013 17:06206054
Mohammad reflected the mores of his times [93 words]PrashantMay 16, 2013 12:14206054
Interesting [39 words]HamzaMay 8, 2015 16:33206054
Serious Discussion [59 words]NickMay 14, 2013 11:59206051
thanks and then some [309 words]john w. mcginleyMay 14, 2013 07:59206040
9There is only one Islam and it is not pretty [232 words]dhimmi no moreMay 14, 2013 07:12206039
2islamization yes or no [106 words]mythMay 14, 2013 05:46206035
1more distinctions in the islamic spectrum, more tactics needed [425 words]mythMay 14, 2013 05:15206034
How do you define moderate Islam? Doesnt moderation often lead to apostasy as Muslims,not just Islamists fear? [169 words]ShishirMay 14, 2013 03:25206032
Moderation [57 words]AAAMay 18, 2013 23:44206032
1Islam vs Jihadism [147 words]Dean MohrMay 14, 2013 00:49206027
25It is just a Double Paradox [129 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael Hanni MorcosMay 14, 2013 00:45206026
20How Many were Against Hitler during the Holocaust? [20 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 16, 2013 09:23206026
5I disagree, Mr. Morcos [180 words]There is NO Santa ClausMay 17, 2013 08:02206026
7the Nazi paradox remains stunning [127 words]mythMay 17, 2013 16:45206026
22I respectfully disagree [132 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 18, 2013 04:41206026
7A lesson from Mom [110 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 18, 2013 20:25206026
3Most non-Islamist Muslims are not anti-Islamists [64 words]Arthur CohnMay 14, 2013 00:15206024
Why moderates do not condemn radicals [91 words]Gato BrancoMay 22, 2013 04:19206024
4History, when wrong, must be criticized [516 words]PrashantMay 13, 2013 23:50206023
3integration of Muslims into western society's concept of government, [424 words]rodney allsworthMay 13, 2013 23:14206022
1Solution to Islamism [20 words]Gary ClarkeMay 13, 2013 21:48206017
Defeating Islamism [12 words]Clifford IshiiMay 13, 2013 21:48206016
2Accurate analysis. [137 words]LucretiusMay 13, 2013 18:54206010
32Almost getting there, and then the familiar U-turn [1127 words]Ron ThompsonMay 13, 2013 16:43206008
4Dear Ron I applaud your insight [84 words]Bruria RimoniMay 13, 2013 23:03206008
5The Perfect Argument ... Q.E.D. [48 words]Domenic PepeMay 14, 2013 11:57206008
5There is nothing called 'Islamism', only 'Islam' [189 words]K T ThomasMay 15, 2013 11:35206008
2Thank you [175 words]Ron ThompsonMay 16, 2013 21:01206008
6A Good Muslim according to us is a Bad Muslim according to Islam [541 words]Ron ThompsonMay 16, 2013 23:54206008
Exactly, Ron [41 words]stanley bMay 17, 2013 23:31206008
1Can citizens not be asked to live in countries practicing the political societal system they are loyal too? [510 words]DemolanMay 18, 2013 02:36206008
5Very Hard [18 words]Michael Hanni MorcosMay 18, 2013 19:45206008
12Symptom or disease? [150 words]Doug MayfieldMay 13, 2013 15:21206007
5The crisis of faith isn't new: [134 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jason PappasMay 13, 2013 14:19206004
69The Killer Answer to Defeating islam itself [546 words]Domenic PepeMay 13, 2013 14:11206003
1war on all Islam ? [59 words]gary ClarkeMay 14, 2013 00:32206003
5agree! [347 words]TomMay 14, 2013 11:36206003
2The defeat of the devil on earth [15 words]Albert ShankerMay 15, 2013 00:04206003
1On the Parallel with Nazi Germany and Japanese Militarism [172 words]Ron ThompsonMay 16, 2013 20:41206003
1DEFEAT ISLAM WITH TRUTH. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. [388 words]MarkMay 29, 2013 02:11206003
DEFEAT ISLAM WITH TRUTH. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY. [11 words]MarkJun 3, 2013 21:23206003
What truth [73 words]sleeplessJun 13, 2013 20:59206003
Truth is not relative! [229 words]TomJun 18, 2013 14:16206003
Facing Reality: Defeating Totalitarian Islam [30 words]mbpleeJul 18, 2013 04:31206003
1Defeating Islam or Islamism? Neither! [176 words]PrashantJul 19, 2013 02:24206003
1Extirpate the Evil Inherent in islam itself [148 words]Domenic PepeJul 20, 2013 17:04206003
Islam [184 words]Jim JenningsNov 28, 2013 19:39206003
islam compared to nazism [88 words]BrunoDec 7, 2013 05:38206003
2islam is like nazism because ..... [123 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Domenic PepeDec 9, 2013 00:03206003
Agree [7 words]LeoAug 18, 2014 08:05206003
6Islam vs. Islamism [142 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gunther H. SciffMay 13, 2013 13:47206002
1Great analysis [59 words]Bruce BirnbergMay 13, 2013 12:56206001
4Not even as simple as Dr Pipes complicated position [124 words]M.OrbuchMay 13, 2013 12:55206000
7Islam by any other name is anti-reason [316 words]Edward ClineMay 13, 2013 12:51205999
2Interesting point Edward Cline [169 words]saraMay 13, 2013 19:34205999
4Reply to Sara [337 words]Edward ClineMay 13, 2013 20:24205999
Catholicism has political power [46 words]thomasMay 14, 2013 05:59205999
And to prove the opposite? [250 words]LynnMay 14, 2013 09:20205999
1More moderate than Islam assuredly [151 words]saraMay 16, 2013 00:26205999
1"Islamism" is but part of a dimension [183 words]Michael VanyukovMay 13, 2013 12:12205998
4Islam vs Islamism! The cameleon! [89 words]Steven LMay 13, 2013 11:56205997
1How to defeat islamism [191 words]Lars NielsenMay 14, 2013 04:27205997
3Islam and its byproduct Islamism [107 words]Steven LMay 16, 2013 11:20205997
How to defeat Islam(ism) ?! [131 words]nightcryApr 22, 2017 12:44205997
Answer to nightcry [147 words]Lars NielsenApr 24, 2017 06:13205997
Completely agree but... [152 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
LoryMay 13, 2013 11:56205996
3Ah, The Killer Question... [224 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
SoloviewMay 13, 2013 11:05205995
10Who with sane mind wants to live in a Moslem state? [50 words]NuritGMay 13, 2013 11:01205994
1I concur , Islam is the problem [5 words]ThomasMay 14, 2013 06:03205994
Occam's razor!! [35 words]JaladhiMay 18, 2013 18:12205994
1Distributions need to be understood [386 words]Amit SrivastavaMay 13, 2013 10:48205993
2Where are the "moderates." [70 words]Carey PageMay 13, 2013 10:27205992
2Hope is not a strategy for change [101 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Barry WolfeMay 13, 2013 10:27205991
3"what went wrong" [158 words]TomMay 13, 2013 10:18205989
6There is only one Islam - and it must go, it really must go [700 words]TL WinslowMay 13, 2013 10:11205988
16What differentiates Islam from other religions [188 words]G MarcusMay 13, 2013 10:07205987
Comparison between Islam and Christiany [28 words]ThomasMay 14, 2013 06:07205987
3Doubt enough Thomas? [82 words]TomMay 17, 2013 23:19205987
9Several polls have shown that a plurality of Moslems support the radicals [189 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David SMay 13, 2013 10:00205986
1IFF - Identify Friend or Foe. Support friend, fight foe. [477 words]Yeshayhu HollanderMay 13, 2013 09:57205985

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