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Reader comment on item: On Second Thought … Maybe that Israeli Apology to Turkey was a Good Idea
in response to reader comment: Ottoman bollocks.

Submitted by Mozere (United Kingdom), Apr 5, 2013 at 10:24

As a person of Turkish heritage I agree with most of your insightful analysis,however I disagree with the following points and arrive at a different conclusion.

1.Eastern states,whatever that may mean,have not got the monopoly on delusions of grandeur,which was shown in ample quantities by the likes of Napoleon and Hitler

2.The Turks likewise have not got the monopoly of invading and massacring other peoples territories,Alexander the Great did it,Russians cleared the Crimea and Circessia of its Muslim inhabitants,the last Tasmanian was hunted down like an animal by the british settlers not very long ago.Maybe these do not count as they were not good christian Europeans.

3.Erdogan may have his dreams,we all do,but he is an astute and a realistic politician.He knows politics is the art of the possible.He knows he is the mouthpiece of the resurgent Anatolian bourgeoisie,he also made his peace with the older established Istanbul capitalists,if he starts acting like Ahmedinejad this capitalist class will lose its power over its employees,and its wealth due to a possible embargo.Sir, I can assure you that a vast majority of the Turkish people are more interested in the continuing prosperity of their family than holding an imperial sway over the unfortunate people of the ME with Erdogan as the Calif.Besides secular life has been a part of a big section of the society to be undone easily.

4.The"success" of Turkey is all the more visible because our neighbours are doing exceptionally badly . Despite the Kurdish problem Turkey is a relatively stable country due to centuries old institutions of state which goes back to Ottoman and by extension to Byzantine customs of statecraft.There is an inherent respect for the state among the Turkish people which you do not find in the ME and possibly in the Balkans too.

5.I agree with the demographic explosion of the Kurdish,but this will surely come to an end in 20 years.A lot of Kurds now live in W Turkey where they migrate ,these will in time mix with the local population rather like the Irish in Britain.A lot of Kurds do not want to cede due to obvious economic reasons,that is why there has not been a wholesale rebellion among the ordinary people.There is a possibility of Turkey evolving into a Turco-Kurdish state with the Kurdish grievances resolved rather than be partitioned like yugoslavia which did nobody any good.In that case Turkey will be much stronger,and Erdogan knows this.Hence his repeated attempts of solving this running wound.

6.The EU,whatever its merits,has condemned Greece and Bulgaria to be economic dead ends by severing their links to hinterlands of E Thrace and W Anatolia.E. g. Istanbul and its environments with its 20 million wealthy consumers are denied access to the delights of Thesaloniki and Kavalla which are only 5 hours drive away.

7.In conclusion I would say the relatively strong position of Turkey vis a vis its neighbours is in part due to inept governance,sectarianism,tribalism and lack of state traditions in the neighbouring countries.Due to these factors economic activity in these countries are curtailed leaving the countries penniless and their citizens frustrated.By contrast Turkey is a veritable economic powerhouse competing with the likes of China.The irony should not be lost on those who blame the Turkish "yoke" on their backwardness while they are looking across the borders and enviously seeing a prosperous and stable country.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (60) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
"Palestinians" and Islamists protest Herzog's Turkey visit, evoke that criminal 2010 Marmara - violent hate flotilla [1001 words]MartinMar 10, 2022 17:04279299
Twenty Years Later - Why Mavi Marmara Remains a Failure - There will be No Return to Auschwitz [142 words]M ToveyMar 11, 2022 14:39279299
Netanyahu Channels Obama [74 words]DaveJul 4, 2013 18:09207619
Erdogan Predictable [74 words]DaveJul 4, 2013 12:38207602
Somehow, some way... [66 words]There is NO Santa ClausMay 11, 2013 12:35205927
Netanyahu, what were you thinking? [66 words]ElianaApr 26, 2013 23:23205666
1under pressure of utopia [62 words]Scoot BrownApr 18, 2013 16:59205280
1Hopefully more people will see that islamists do not wish peace. [54 words]Phil GreendApr 16, 2013 21:05205230
1A good idea [36 words]yuvalApr 11, 2013 09:49205087
1it is a matter of culture [39 words]jacob sassoonApr 10, 2013 19:19205072
2I've been waiting for this. [115 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEApr 9, 2013 11:48205043
11Ottoman bollocks. [816 words]Petros HouhoulisApr 4, 2013 02:54204938
2leadership not actively sought [559 words]MozereApr 5, 2013 10:24204938
A lot of Questions [396 words]AlexandrosDec 13, 2013 05:30204938
what is the Palestinian reaction? [47 words]mythApr 2, 2013 19:27204913
1Apologies [20 words]Keith BargerApr 2, 2013 16:13204910
4Sorry Daniel Pipes, I don't get this one [184 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
SoloApr 1, 2013 10:13204886
1Israeli thickness [97 words]David NatanelApr 6, 2013 03:14204886
Not "thick", no, but a definitely not a smart move [200 words]SoloApr 7, 2013 12:05204886
They are thicker than that [73 words]yuvalApr 11, 2013 08:35204886
Before and After [77 words]ASGApr 1, 2013 08:17204885
On Second Thought Maybe that Israeli Apolog to Turkey was a Good Idea [199 words]JudithApr 1, 2013 04:06204883
buy pride with lives [202 words]mythMar 31, 2013 07:23204860
The Apology to Turkey [107 words]Ilbert A. PhillipsMar 31, 2013 04:46204858
Being magnanimous doesnt get you far in the Middle East- they shouldve learnt this from the Gaza pullout [99 words]ShishirMar 31, 2013 01:42204853
Apology [138 words]Gunther H. SciffMar 30, 2013 22:43204850
2Sorry, I did not need the lesson. [48 words]Steve KleinMar 30, 2013 21:07204847
Great article [121 words]Admiral Peter KikareasMar 30, 2013 15:13204841
4Trouble comes from the North [229 words]Al SheeberMar 30, 2013 11:29204836
2to al sheeber [97 words]moMar 31, 2013 03:50204836
1Apology For Political Gain? [131 words]Ron AnderMar 30, 2013 09:09204829
Let us learn to eat carp for Thanksgiving. [425 words]Pincas JawetzMar 30, 2013 05:15204823
Turkey-Israel beyond apology [105 words]Nazim CairoMar 30, 2013 05:08204822
7You can never appease these guys enough [184 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PrashantMar 30, 2013 03:21204821
Blunder => Reality check [9 words]Carey PageMar 29, 2013 20:49204814
1This Peace Pipe is worth worth $5-to-$6 billion per year [50 words]NuritGMar 29, 2013 18:00204812
3No benefit whatsoever, just like with Hamas [205 words]saraMar 29, 2013 17:48204811
2Gaza withdawal said it all [81 words]Ron GerskupMar 29, 2013 17:36204810
1Who needs whom? [186 words]NuritGMar 29, 2013 17:29204809
Concoction of Naiveté and taqiyya [108 words]NuritGMar 29, 2013 16:42204808
Lay down with dogs [298 words]SarahSueMar 30, 2013 01:22204808
clamoring for real leadership! [252 words]NuritGMar 30, 2013 23:11204808
2Erdogan is predictable [135 words]Stergios BakasMar 29, 2013 16:30204807
The world of diplomacy [53 words]Susan KMar 29, 2013 15:53204805
Israeli Apology and Turkish Reaction [33 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
RaviMar 29, 2013 15:34204804
"Good Idea" [6 words]George HaasMar 29, 2013 15:29204803
1HaShem chai [16 words]BessieMar 29, 2013 14:50204802
1On Second Thought … Maybe that Israeli Apology to Turkey was a Good Idea-Humility Is Not A Sign Of Weakness [242 words]Henry Afamefuna IlonaMar 29, 2013 14:02204798
You are wrong, Henry [29 words]SarahSueMar 30, 2013 01:46204798
1Islamist Turkey wanted an Apology? How about apologizing to the Armenian people. [23 words]EdwardMar 31, 2013 01:52204798
Personally - I thought of it differently... [54 words]RobertMar 29, 2013 13:52204797
Under the eye of God Himself [16 words]Abu NudnikMar 29, 2013 13:39204796
We are NOT surprised [81 words]EthanPMar 29, 2013 13:31204795
1Well presented [207 words]Ira FeinbergMar 29, 2013 13:20204794
What Apology?... [124 words]marciaMar 29, 2013 13:18204793
1It's not just a few words [93 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MilhouseMar 29, 2013 13:13204792
A BARKING DOG DOES NOT BITE [147 words]JACQUES HADIDAMar 29, 2013 13:04204790
1On Third Thought [50 words]DavidMar 29, 2013 12:59204789
A bone in a dogfight [202 words]logdonMar 29, 2013 12:57204788
Erdo, the magnificient sultan! Apology. [35 words]Steven LMar 29, 2013 12:56204787

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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