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re: dhimmi no more - discrediting the 'breast-feeding of the adult'

Reader comment on item: Mahram Despotism vs. Saudi Women
in response to reader comment: our dear Bill's girl and breast feeding of the adult and Arabian imperialism and other sordid matters

Submitted by bill's girl (Saudi Arabia), Oct 31, 2009 at 18:09

I finally found the hadeeth that I believe you may be talking about in Malik's Muwatta, and again, I found that you are only quoting the part which suits your argument… totally out of context:

Section: Suckling of Older People

Book 30, Number 30.2.12:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that he was asked about the suckling of an older person. He said, "Urwa ibn az-Zubayr informed me that Abu Hudhayfa ibn Utba ibn Rabia, one of the companions of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, who was present at Badr, adopted Salim (who is called Salim, the mawla of Abu Hudhayfa) as the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, adopted Zayd ibn Haritha. He thought of him as his son, and Abu Hudhayfa married him to his brother's sister, Fatima bint al-Walid ibn Utba ibn Rabia, who was at that time among the first emigrants. She was one of the best unmarried women of the Quraysh. When Allah the Exalted sent down in His Book what He sent down about Zayd ibn Haritha, 'Call them after their true fathers. That is more equitable in the sight of Allah. If you do not know who their fathers were then they are your brothers in the deen and your mawali,' (Sura 33 ayat 5) people in this position were traced back to their fathers. When the father was not known, they were traced to their mawla.

"Sahla bint Suhayl who was the wife of Abu Hudhayfa, and one of the tribe of Amr ibn Luayy, came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said, 'Messenger of Allah! We think of Salim as a son and he comes in to see me while I am uncovered. We only have one room, so what do you think about the situation?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Give him five drinks of your milk and he will be mahram by it.' She then saw him as a foster son. A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

"This is what the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, thought about the suckling of an older person."

Book 30, Number 30.2.13:

Yahya related to me from Malik that Abdullah ibn Dinar said, "A man came to Abdullah ibn Umar when I waswith him at the place where judgments were given and asked him about the suckling of an older person. Abdullah ibn Umar replied, 'A man came to Umar ibn al-Khattab and said, 'I have a slave-girl and I used to have intercourse with her. My wife went to her and suckled her. When I went to the girl, my wife told me to watch out, because she had suckled her!' Umar told him to beat his wife and to go to his slave-girl because kinship by suckling was only by the suckling of the young.' "

Book 30, Number 30.2.14:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that a man said to Abu Musa al-Ashari, "I drank some milk from my wife's breasts and it went into my stomach." Abu Musa said, "I can only but think that she is haram for you." Abdullah ibn Masud said, "Look at what opinion you are giving the man." Abu Musa said, "Then what do you say?" Abdullah ibn Masud said, "There is only kinship by suckling in the first two years."

Abu Musa said, "Do not ask me about anything while this learned man is among you."

I happened to notice that it says 'Give him five drinks of your milk…' it does not say 'suckle him' as all other hadeeths regarding the fosterage through suckling specifically mention some form of the word 'suckle'. So, it could be that he is suggesting just that… give him milk, be it in a cup or bowl or other vessel, just as women today often pump their breasts to extract milk for babies to drink from a bottle. It also goes on to say that the wives of the Prophet considered this a special case for 'Salim alone'. So, this section is actually discrediting the suckling of older people!

Suckling of older people in Sahih Muslim:

Book 008, Number 3429:

Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), used to say that all wives of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) disclaimed the idea that one with this type of fosterage (having been suckled after the proper period) should come to them. and said to 'A'isha: By Allah, we do not find this but a sort of concession given by Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) only for Salim, and no one was going to be allowed to enter (our houses) with this type of fosterage and we do not subscribe to this view.

Book 008, Number 3430:

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) visited me when a man was sitting near me, and he seemed to disapprove of that. And I saw signs of anger on his face and I said: Messenger of Allah, he is my brother by forsterage, whereupon he said: Consider who your brothers are because of fosterage since fosterage is through hunger (i. e. in infancy).

Also from Malik's Muwatta:

Book 30, Number 30.2.14:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that a man said to Abu Musa al-Ashari, "I drank some milk from my wife's breasts and it went into my stomach." Abu Musa said, "I can only but think that she is haram for you." Abdullah ibn Masud said, "Look at what opinion you are giving the man." Abu Musa said, "Then what do you say?" Abdullah ibn Masud said, "There is only kinship by suckling in the first two years."

Abu Musa said, "Do not ask me about anything while this learned man is among you."

Book 30, Number 30.1.4:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Thawr ibn Zayd ad-Dili that Abdullah ibn Abbas said, "The milk which a child under two years old sucks, even if it is only one suck, makes the foster relatives haram."

Book 30, Number 30.1.6:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "There is no kinship by suckling except for a person who is nursed when he is small. There is no kinship by suckling over the age of two years."

Book 30, Number 30.1.10:

Yahya related to me from Malik that Ibrahim ibn Uqba asked Said ibn al-Musayyab about suckling. Said said, "All that occurs in the first two years, even if it is only a drop, makes haram. Whatever is after two years, is only food that is eaten."

Ibrahim ibn Uqba said, "Then I asked Urwa ibn az-Zubayr and he told me the same as what Said ibn al-Musayyab said."

Book 30, Number 30.1.11:

Yahya related to me from Malik that Yahya ibn Said said that he heard Said ibn al-Musayyab say, "Suckling is only while the child is in the cradle. If not, it does not cause flesh and blood relations."

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that he said, "Suckling however little or much, makes haram. Kinship by suckling makes men mahram."

Yahya said that he had heard Malik say, "Suckling, however little or much when it is in the first two years, makes haram. As for what is after the first two years, little or much, it does not make anything haram. It is like food."

And from Sahih Al-Bukhari:

No. 2477 – Narrated Aisha: Once the Prophet came to me while a man was in my house. He said, "O 'Aisha! Who is this (man)?" I replied, "My foster brothers" He said, "O 'Aisha! Be sure about your foster brothers, as fostership is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period (before two years of age)."

N. 4769 – Narrated Aisha: that the Prophet entered upon her while a man was sitting with her. Signs of anger seemed to appear on his face as if he disliked that. She said, "Here is my (foster) brother." He said, "Be sure as to who is your foster brother, for foster suckling relationship is established only when milk is the only food of the child."

From Muslim scholars:

Breast-feeding a child over two years old

Is it permissible to breast-feed a child over 2 years old? Until what age does breast-feeding make the child a relative (mahram)? Are there any exceptions to this rule?

I am asking because there are many 2 year olds in our area who need families - they need to be "adopted" in the Western sense. I would like to help these children, and expand our ummah, but too avoid hardship, I hope that there is a way that they could become relatives of my son.

Breast-feeding a child over two years old will not have the effect of making him a relative (mahram). It is permitted to breast-feed one's own child beyond two years, but two years is enough, as Allah says:

"The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling" [2:233 al-Baqarah]

If an adult breastfeeds, it does not have any effect of making him a mahram. Rather the breastfeeding that has this effect is that which takes place during the first two years of life.

The scholars of the Standing Committee said:

It is permissible for the husband to suck his wife's breasts, and if any milk reaches his stomach it does not have the effect of making him a mahram.

Shaykh 'Abd al-'Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh 'Abd al-Razzaaq 'Afeefi, Shaykh 'Abd-Allaah al-Ghadyaan, Shaykh 'Abd-Allaah ibn Qa'ood.

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-'Uthaymeen said:

Breastfeeding by an adult does not have the effect of making him a mahram, because the breastfeeding that has that effect is five breastfeedings or more within the first two years of life before weaning. Breastfeeding by an adult does not have that effect. Based on this, if we assume that someone breastfed from his wife or drank her milk, he cannot become a son to her.

Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/338.

Submitting....

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