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Two dangerous ideas
Reader comment on item: Combating the Ideology of Radical Islam

Submitted by David Isecke (United States), Apr 19, 2003 at 01:49

While in agreement with Dr. Pipes, I have strong reservations about the ideas I see presented by Graham Fuller. These ideas seem to stem from the view of 'democracy' as the ascendant ideal. It naturally follows from this that the muslims have the right to choose an Islamist government. The two ideas I see as very dangerous are:

1) We should "support moderate Islamists even if they do not explicitly renounce violence as a political tool."

2) "Democracy is the best option for the Muslim world, an end to rule by unpopular leaders would be in the best interests of the United States."

The answer to the first is, there are no moderate Islamists. Even if they are not engaged in actual violence against us at the moment, they are supporters of this violence. Also, if violence is considered a political tool, then rule of law and democracy are no more than propaganda veneer. Iran is a "democracy" by this standard, and its clear that it is a dangerous enemy to civilization under the current mullocracy.

My answer to the second would be that under democracy, muslims certainly would have the right to elect a radicalized government to office. However, this merely underscores the danger of trying to immediately implement a democratic government on a population that has no experience with living in a true civil society. They are as likely as not to elect one despot to replace another. The popularity of this despot is no comfort to the West, either. Remember the popularity of Osama bin Laden. If he were running in an election in, say, Egypt, he'd probably win. This would be a dark day for civilization.

Democracy has been tragically overstated in importance compared to local governance, civil society, and rule of law. Consider what we would think of a democratically elected government who subjugates women, reinstitutes the slave trade, and revokes citizanship for all non-muslims. This would abridge freedom for real people far more than the concept of 'democracy' would ensure it. In fact, the government, even if elected, should NOT have the ability to do this. In the United States, we have a Bill of Rights to prevent the government from subjugating the individual. We have also a seperation of powers to keep any one branch in line. Without these things, our republic would not have been nearly so resilient.

In other words, it is not the right of a majority to enslave or subjugate a minority. The best protection against this is not democracy; it is a strong rule of law that binds the government, as well as the people. Once people are used to living under a rule of law, in a working civil society, we can probably trust that democracy will have the effect of keeping this civil society from turning totalitarian, but that is the point: Democracy is only useful as a guaruntor of civil society and rule of law. It is worthless by itself.

For one more example, consider the democracy of Iran against the constitutional monarchy that was Britian after the signature of the Magna Carta. The British had a much better civil society, because the concept was there that even the monarch had to bend to the law. And the law was, at least in part, specified by the Parlaiment, which was also not elected at the time.

History has shown us many times what is really important to creating a decent civilized society. I hope we heed this lesson, instead of simply worship at the alter of democracy.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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Reader comments (78) on this item

Title By Date
ignorenace is a harmful wapon [231 words]NoraFeb 18, 2009 20:04
jihad is a holy WAR [238 words]waterguessenDec 19, 2008 22:47
99.999999% muslims are islamics [67 words]Mohd suhelAug 19, 2008 05:51
Radical Islamists or Cultists? [239 words]MaudiAug 6, 2008 07:31
Take the fight, on to the street. [40 words]Matthew HaysomMay 28, 2008 10:57
THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS NOT TO PLAY (ATHEIST PERSPECTIVE) [109 words]ATHEISTSep 1, 2008 04:37
Wrong is wrong and right is right [295 words]AntiworldlyOct 18, 2009 17:32
How do I fight back against radical Islam [105 words]David H McLeishJan 6, 2008 17:48
By searching for truth! [754 words]PDMJan 6, 2008 20:18
Dear Sir David H McLeish [180 words]YnnatchkahJan 6, 2008 21:32
Semper Fidelis.... [153 words]donvanJan 7, 2008 10:42
What can I do [413 words]blackmanApr 2, 2008 18:37
"Islamist" vs. "Islam" [143 words]Barry WolfeApr 11, 2006 12:40
Combating Islamism [22 words]Clifford IshiiMay 29, 2005 14:12
A Nation of optimism [65 words]Tom KunzieJul 25, 2006 22:59
The failure of the American-Islamic discourse [268 words]Ibn FilastinApr 30, 2005 22:35
What? [335 words]MaudiAug 6, 2008 08:45
Islamic justification of violence [200 words]Henry RebelloDec 4, 2004 05:25
The real face of Islam [186 words]John D'souzaDec 4, 2004 05:12
wrong conclusions about islam [96 words]Marwan TawashiFeb 3, 2007 15:22
a challenge to muslims - stop deluding yourselves [121 words]basilJun 27, 2009 15:35
Very true statements [34 words]Too late to bickerOct 18, 2009 18:04
⇒ Two dangerous ideas [584 words]David IseckeApr 19, 2003 01:49
Philosophy of Islam [94 words]DonApr 18, 2003 17:03
Moderate Islamist [158 words]daneApr 17, 2003 17:34
Clashes of Interest? [181 words]Matt MurrayApr 16, 2003 17:32
The reinventing of Islam [1147 words]Daniel Kayes ThomsonApr 16, 2003 11:42
Brave and correct Rabbi Daniel Kayes Thomson [17 words]ELIJAH HA NAVIJul 19, 2006 16:43
Bismillah. Take a Look [222 words]Faheem MunirDec 17, 2006 00:58
Moderate Islamists? [65 words]Neil LewisApr 15, 2003 22:52
Islamism [66 words]Muhammad SiddiquiApr 15, 2003 17:22
Vilification of Islamism [123 words]Don Van SICKLEApr 15, 2003 12:29
Fighting Islamist Ideology (read Sayyid Qutb) [189 words]JonApr 15, 2003 10:55
Rough road ahead fellows [178 words]Peter YorkoskiFeb 21, 2007 01:46
What about Muhammad and the Quran? [142 words]Rick FlandersApr 15, 2003 02:26
Rethink "Moderates" [235 words]BoycatApr 15, 2003 00:52
Stop thinking like westerners [285 words]Peter YorkoskiFeb 21, 2007 02:26
CAIR and the ACLU. Enough said. [127 words]KeithApr 14, 2003 22:32
CAIR [146 words]Marwan TawashiFeb 4, 2007 04:31
"Moderate?" [35 words]p eApr 14, 2003 21:13
The real enemy is change [209 words]Dennis CashenApr 14, 2003 18:00
Democracy not always best solution [109 words]Syd VeritaskApr 14, 2003 15:06
Democracy: Government with limited power [92 words]Stephen BermanApr 14, 2003 14:00
Islamists may "fail" but they don't willingly unelect themselves. [199 words]Matthew KennelApr 14, 2003 13:59
Islam is indeed the problem. [38 words]Emmanuel GoldsteinApr 14, 2003 13:35
You may fight but we will win [34 words]PatzDec 4, 2007 23:38
MODERATE ISLAM [128 words]WHIPSep 22, 2009 16:50
The moderates need to speak up a little louder! [170 words]fenixApr 14, 2003 13:29
Democracy & Islamists [310 words]Glenn KlotzApr 14, 2003 13:06
It'll never work... [124 words]MarkApr 14, 2003 12:20
Democracy is the Key [94 words]Susan BradfordApr 14, 2003 09:10
Internal discontinuity
[w/response] [52 words]
Zach AllenApr 14, 2003 09:03
Saudi Arabia self-described Islamist State [50 words]Ron FoxApr 14, 2003 07:42
Democracy vs Liberty and Islamism [299 words]Gordon MullingsApr 14, 2003 07:18
Co-authors disagree [186 words]JMHApr 13, 2003 22:41
ISLAM IS NOT THE ENEMY? [246 words]Mike DavisApr 13, 2003 22:36
Christian,Muslim? [103 words]AmalJan 12, 2007 12:18
The gap between our interests [150 words]Lenn ChowApr 13, 2003 18:51
In agreement with Pipes [56 words]Etta HellerApr 13, 2003 14:29
Does Moderate Islam Really Exist? [130 words]Richard RheinerApr 13, 2003 13:47
Holes in arguments [937 words]John Vander VoortApr 13, 2003 06:27
Staggering!!! [93 words]MontyApr 13, 2003 03:50
Understanding Islamism, Effects on American Policy [725 words]Yirmeyahu Ben-DavidApr 13, 2003 03:06
Illiberal Civil Society?
[w/response] [134 words]
Anthony ChaseApr 13, 2003 01:42
Personal view [164 words]E. J. BlumbergApr 13, 2003 01:04
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New Islam Movement [2596 words]ZoyaApr 13, 2003 00:09
re: New Islam Movement [67 words]Mustafa McPhersonSep 4, 2007 18:58
Need to be explicit [151 words]Boris FrenkelApr 12, 2003 23:07
Source of the Problem [358 words]Wiilliam James BonnesarApr 12, 2003 21:54
Two dangerous ideas [584 words]David IseckeApr 12, 2003 21:47
elections [29 words]Al GreenApr 12, 2003 21:41
militant theology & militant theocrats [69 words]MPaul HansenApr 12, 2003 20:48
The Core of the Matter [404 words]C.C. CouringtonApr 12, 2003 20:04
Moderate Islamists, an Oxymoron [188 words]Jan David RomanoffApr 12, 2003 20:03
I'm with "Will of Allah" [171 words]ClarkyMay 16, 2008 10:51
Radical or moderate Islamic Muslims? [158 words]HelenJun 21, 2008 17:29
Will of Allah [563 words]Charles OrenApr 12, 2003 17:39

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.

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