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The Bible, Jesus, Mohammed, America, Catholics and Islam Nura

Reader comment on item: Prepare to attack [Iran]
in response to reader comment: response to Straight_Talk_Luigi/3

Submitted by Straight_Talk_Luigi (United States), Jun 29, 2008 at 23:10

I very well know the problems of these countries. You know what the biggest problem is? They do not follow Islam, another secret.

Then I don't think you know their problems very well at all. Islam is major part of the problem, Nura.

There is no one Islamic state in this world.

Isn't this the goal of Islam?

There are states who implement some Islamic laws, but Allah's laws are the greatest which is the problem. The very existence of these countries are anti-Islamic.

I'm starting to think that living anti-Islamic can be a great thing.

There is no Nationalism in Islam.

Well, when you want a one-world government they wouldn't teach that. But it does cater pretty nicely to Saudi men.

Nationalism is actually relatively new to the Islamic world. Another gift from the West.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism, so long as it is done in good taste.

There should be no kings In Islam, Monarchies are un-Islamic, they border disbelief.

For this I am not surprised of any corruption that may go on in these countries, when you don't follow Islam corruption is the result.

This doesn't make sense because Islam by its very nature isn't perfect. No religion really is. I believe that the only form of perfection to exist is the Trinity.

My argument is that the West really has no room to criticize.

For the record, Nura, I'm not the West, "you Christians" "you Americans" or you anything. Honestly, when you say that you look terribly foolish.

Despite the corruption that exists in these countries, there are many evils that exist in the West that these countries have not followed, yet.

There are also many evils in the Islamic world that haven't gotten here yet. Although, I could have done with out, well, slamming airplanes into Manhattan skyscrapers.

Very Interesting statement. What is amazing is that Christians fail to remember that Jesus was a Jew who came to the Jews!! The Jews that fallowed him did not stop becoming Jews. Jesus observed the Sabbath and followed the old laws! If he came to change the laws why didn't he start with himself? Furthermore, what you are saying is not supported by the Bible. It is what I call "Doctrine worship" rather than God worship. Christians follow the Saints more than Jesus(PBUH)!

See below. Actually, it's really only Catholics who pray to the saints, and we ASK them to intercede on our behalf, since they are already in Heaven.

It is not saints, but Jesus Christ who saves.

Jesus (PBUH) said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matt. 5:17.

Then you are essentially recognizing the legitimate word of the prophets of the Old Testament. We do too, it's just that they say Jesus is the Son of God.

He said this when he was speaking to the Pharisees. It is very clear that Jesus came to reinstate the laws that were corrupted by the Jews. He came to Fulfill the prophesy of Moses, May Allah be pleased with them both.

He came to fulfill all Scriptures.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Verse 18

In the New American Bible the analysis is that Jesus is referring to His "death and Resurrection," not to Mohammed. It also says the literal interpretation is Mosaic Law, but if that is truly the case, why all the changes? The Mosaic Law is based on justice in this life, and was so because the ancient Jews believed there was no life after death. Jesus amends this by teaching there is eternal life, and that mercy and forgiveness are the way, not being concerned with animal sacrifice or the exclusion of lepers or restitution here and now.

I believe He said this to make sure His followers knew that He was neither going to turn the world upside down JUST yet nor let them do whatever they wanted. It was His way of hinting that He was a Jew, and His followers were Jews. It was not until after His Resurrection He told Peter "You are my rock, on this rock I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." I think this was the surest way for Jesus to convince as many as possible of His Divine Plan.

Muhammad_ was the last fulfillment which is what this statement refers to till all be fulfilled.

No, Muhammad was never mentioned in the Bible or the Torah.

How is this not clear enough? He came only to reinstate the old laws that were taken from the Torah.

The old laws are what the Jews were practicing! In fact, I would say that one reason why the Jews were suffering so much was because 150-200 years before Jesus came, they were out of favor with God! That's why they were so skeptical of Jesus! Because the Jews had JUST started to bring the old ways not 150 years PRIOR to the coming of Jesus is why, Nura!

It become clear to me once I read First and Second Maccabees.

Jesus came to make a NEW COVENANT, not to renew the old! The Jews already had the means for that in the Mosiac Law in Exodus and Leveticus.

Interesting statement! Why? Is it not because of the commandment of Moses? So then there are some old laws you follow.

We follow Jesus, not the Old Law. There is some overlap, but since Jesus was God (Allah), He had authority to change the Covenant as He saw fit.

When do you observe the Sabbath, Sunday? The Sabbath is not on Sunday. It's on Saturday which starts Friday when the sun sets. I used to observe the Sabbath, Christians don't observe the Sabbath.

We observe Sundays because on the Seventh Day, God rested as prescribed in Genesis. This is also the same day that Jesus was Resurrected. Jews observe on Saturday, but the Catholics changed it once the details of Christianity were formulated.

Furthermore, I will ask you why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. It wasn't Jesus who changed it. It fact it happened hundred of years later. I'll leave that for you to research. SUN DAY literally.

Actually, the Catholic Church has mass services every day of the week. Most Churches have Saturday mass that can used to substitute for Sunday mass.

If you choose not to eat pork, Nura, that is fine. However, it is permissible in Christianity.

Where is your proof? You will not be able to bring one statement by Jesus that he abolished the old Law of prohibiting pork. It is a falsehood that has been attributed to the religion. This is why when Jesus returns he is going to kill all of the swine. God has not permitted the flesh of swine, Man has.

God also commanded His followers in Genesis not to eat shellfish. Where is the proof that has been removed?

The reason for this, as I understand it, was to make a distinction between the pagans and the followers of God.

I don't believe that God will kill His Creation without some Higher purpose, and pigs seem to be among the least who need punishment.

In addition, do you remember when Jesus cast out the devils. Where did he put the souls of those devils? Swine! He put the devils that he casted out into a herd of swine which then ran into the ocean. I think this should give you a clue!

What? That sounds like something from witchcraft or reincarnation? Who knows what happens to devils after they are exercised? Maybe some are sent to hell? The Church teaches that some are allowed to operate in the universe.

Jesus is no doubt the Son of God, and He can, but I do not see the logic in Him doing something like that.

"Because you refuse to see Jesus for who He truly is."

You will not find ONE Muslim who will speak ill of Jesus. We respect him more than Christians. Each time we say his name we say: "May Allah have peace and blessings upon him."

I already know Muslims who take God's name in vain, and I would say not believing He is the Son of God is the worst thing you could think of Him.

What Christians do that? Muslims will not so much as produce a picture of him! Unlike Christians who have "graven images" of him everywhere.

It is important especially for visual learners. I know you must've learned about this at university. Having an image of Jesus is a beautiful thing.

Jesus is who HE said he was. A servant of God. This is how Muslims see him, how He saw himself.

Jesus lived a life of humility, so He wasn't going to boast, but He did teach. Jesus was a servant of God, a perfect One at that.

What am I refusing?

An Arbitrator between yourself and Almighty God is what you are refusing. Know that Mohammed cannot do this. Your pride and arrogance derived from his sadistic view of the world and Holy Testimony of the past could cost you eternity.

I very well know the problems of these countries. You know what the biggest problem is? They do not follow Islam, another secret.

Then I don't think you know their problems very well at all. Islam is major part of the problem, Nura.

There is no one Islamic state in this world.

Isn't this the goal of Islam?

There are states who implement some Islamic laws, but Allah's laws are the greatest which is the problem. The very existence of these countries are anti-Islamic.

I'm starting to think that living anti-Islamic can be a great thing.

There is no Nationalism in Islam.

Well, when you want a one-world government they wouldn't teach that. But it does cater pretty nicely to Saudi men.

Nationalism is actually relatively new to the Islamic world. Another gift from the West.

There is nothing wrong with nationalism, so long as it is done in good taste.

There should be no kings In Islam, Monarchies are un-Islamic, they border disbelief.

For this I am not surprised of any corruption that may go on in these countries, when you don't follow Islam corruption is the result.

This doesn't make sense because Islam by its very nature isn't perfect. No religion really is. I believe that the only form of perfection to exist is the Trinity.

My argument is that the West really has no room to criticize.

For the record, Nura, I'm not the West, "you Christians" "you Americans" or you anything. Honestly, when you say that you look terribly foolish.

Despite the corruption that exists in these countries, there are many evils that exist in the West that these countries have not followed, yet.

There are also many evils in the Islamic world that haven't gotten here yet. Although, I could have done with out, well, slamming airplanes into Manhattan skyscrapers.

Very Interesting statement. What is amazing is that Christians fail to remember that Jesus was a Jew who came to the Jews!! The Jews that fallowed him did not stop becoming Jews. Jesus observed the Sabbath and followed the old laws! If he came to change the laws why didn't he start with himself? Furthermore, what you are saying is not supported by the Bible. It is what I call "Doctrine worship" rather than God worship. Christians follow the Saints more than Jesus(PBUH)!

See below. Actually, it's really only Catholics who pray to the saints, and we ASK them to intercede on our behalf, since they are already in Heaven.

It is not saints, but Jesus Christ who saves.

Jesus (PBUH) said:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matt. 5:17.

Then you are essentially recognizing the legitimate word of the prophets of the Old Testament. We do too, it's just that they say Jesus is the Son of God.

He said this when he was speaking to the Pharisees. It is very clear that Jesus came to reinstate the laws that were corrupted by the Jews. He came to Fulfill the prophesy of Moses, May Allah be pleased with them both.

He came to fulfill all Scriptures.

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Verse 18

In the New American Bible the analysis is that Jesus is referring to His "death and Resurrection," not to Mohammed. It also says the literal interpretation is Mosaic Law, but if that is truly the case, why all the changes? The Mosaic Law is based on justice in this life, and was so because the ancient Jews believed there was no life after death. Jesus amends this by teaching there is eternal life, and that mercy and forgiveness are the way, not being concerned with animal sacrifice or the exclusion of lepers or restitution here and now.

I believe He said this to make sure His followers knew that He was neither going to turn the world upside down JUST yet nor let them do whatever they wanted. It was His way of hinting that He was a Jew, and His followers were Jews. It was not until after His Resurrection He told Peter "You are my rock, on this rock I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." I think this was the surest way for Jesus to convince as many as possible of His Divine Plan.

Muhammad_ was the last fulfillment which is what this statement refers to till all be fulfilled.

No, Muhammad was never mentioned in the Bible or the Torah.

How is this not clear enough? He came only to reinstate the old laws that were taken from the Torah.

The old laws are what the Jews were practicing! In fact, I would say that one reason why the Jews were suffering so much was because 150-200 years before Jesus came, they were out of favor with God! That's why they were so skeptical of Jesus! Because the Jews had JUST started to bring the old ways not 150 years PRIOR to the coming of Jesus is why, Nura!

It become clear to me once I read First and Second Maccabees.

Jesus came to make a NEW COVENANT, not to renew the old! The Jews already had the means for that in the Mosiac Law in Exodus and Leveticus.

Interesting statement! Why? Is it not because of the commandment of Moses? So then there are some old laws you follow.

We follow Jesus, not the Old Law. There is some overlap, but since Jesus was God (Allah), He had authority to change the Covenant as He saw fit.

When do you observe the Sabbath, Sunday? The Sabbath is not on Sunday. It's on Saturday which starts Friday when the sun sets. I used to observe the Sabbath, Christians don't observe the Sabbath.

We observe Sundays because on the Seventh Day, God rested as prescribed in Genesis. This is also the same day that Jesus was Resurrected. Jews observe on Saturday, but the Catholics changed it once the details of Christianity were formulated.

Furthermore, I will ask you why the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday. It wasn't Jesus who changed it. It fact it happened hundred of years later. I'll leave that for you to research. SUN DAY literally.

Actually, the Catholic Church has mass services every day of the week. Most Churches have Saturday mass that can used to substitute for Sunday mass.

If you choose not to eat pork, Nura, that is fine. However, it is permissible in Christianity.

Where is your proof? You will not be able to bring one statement by Jesus that he abolished the old Law of prohibiting pork. It is a falsehood that has been attributed to the religion. This is why when Jesus returns he is going to kill all of the swine. God has not permitted the flesh of swine, Man has.

God also commanded His followers in Genesis not to eat shellfish. Where is the proof that has been removed?

The reason for this, as I understand it, was to make a distinction between the pagans and the followers of God.

I don't believe that God will kill His Creation without some Higher purpose, and pigs seem to be among the least who need punishment.

In addition, do you remember when Jesus cast out the devils. Where did he put the souls of those devils? Swine! He put the devils that he casted out into a herd of swine which then ran into the ocean. I think this should give you a clue!

What? That sounds like something from witchcraft or reincarnation? Who knows what happens to devils after they are exercised? Maybe some are sent to hell? The Church teaches that some are allowed to operate in the universe.

Jesus is no doubt the Son of God, and He can, but I do not see the logic in Him doing something like that.

"Because you refuse to see Jesus for who He truly is."

You will not find ONE Muslim who will speak ill of Jesus. We respect him more than Christians. Each time we say his name we say: "May Allah have peace and blessings upon him."

I already know Muslims who take God's name in vain, and I would say not believing He is the Son of God is the worst thing you could think of Him.

What Christians do that? Muslims will not so much as produce a picture of him! Unlike Christians who have "graven images" of him everywhere.

It is important especially for visual learners. I know you must've learned about this at university. Having an image of Jesus is a beautiful thing.

Jesus is who HE said he was. A servant of God. This is how Muslims see him, how He saw himself.

Jesus lived a life of humility, so He wasn't going to boast, but He did teach. Jesus was a servant of God, a perfect One at that.

What am I refusing?

An Arbitrator between yourself and Almighty God is what you are refusing. Know that Mohammed cannot do this. Your pride and arrogance derived from his sadistic view of the world and Holy Testimony of the past could cost you eternity.

Submitting....

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