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She is Being Used for a VISA, and The Co-worker Is In On It!Reader comment on item: Advice to Non-Muslim Women against Marrying Muslim Men Submitted by Straight_Talk_Luigi (United States), Nov 2, 2014 at 15:30 My relative is an older woman and a little overweight (not obese and certainly in good heath but certainly overweight). Se has a huge self-esteem problem no matter how much I or her other relatives try to boost that esteem with positive feedback. She was, about a three years ago, These traits are frequently targeted by liars, scammers and manipulators who just want sex and/or money. taken in by a variation of the classic "Nigerian" scam by a man on the internet whom she thought she loved. (yes we all tried to warn her then too). I would say that dating scams are much more effective than Nigerian 4-1-1 scams because the person is emotionally invested. About a year ago she started talking to a co-worker who was from Morocco and came to the US on a fiance visa some years ago. He is no longer with the woman he married when he entered the country but with another older woman (I do not know the age of his previous wife as h is not open with that information). That is not surprising. My sense is that he used the first woman to get over here, and once was established, left her. He recently became a full citizen and is still living with his older girlfriend but openly talks about leaving her and living in a larger city with a bigger Moroccan population. Again, not surprising. Once VISA scammers get established, which is a process that may take years, they'll move out on there own. I would say this happens once they learn English good enough (if they don't already) and have document like a driver's license. (he has long since stopped practicing Islam and is quite open about not praying or attending Mosk). It is from this man that my relative started talking to a man living in Morocco. That doesn't mean that he's secular/liberal or that he's ultimately going to concede his religious values. A lot of religious men will have their fun in life, but what they really want is to settle down with someone in their own religion and/or culture. Within a couple of weeks my relative was discussing marriage to a man more than ten years younger than her but believed it was genuine because, unlike the Nigerian incident, she met him through a person she works with. Meeting in person does have its advantages, but really, if one is naïve or going to make excuses, those advantages shrink pretty quick. In this case, she is referred to a scammer by another scammer. Wthin a few months of knowing this man she poached part of the savings she had been rebuilding and flew to Morocco to "meet him and see if it was genuine." Going to Morocco once would not likely solve all doubts, and if it does, it shows naivety. She describes her time in Morocco in a dreamy context and all of my relatives and I were happy that she had such a good time and seemed to like him so much. There's a difference between liking a country and a person from that country. The rosy scenario is troublesome because a lot of these Third-World places are in dire shape. It tells me she's seeing things that just are not so. We were very hopeful for her but secretly we worry as the situation moved way too fast for us to truly be comfortable, especially with everything we have sat through with her. Liars and scammers rely on speed and spontaneous behavior to fit their agenda. The reason is "spontaneous people buy (into) things" as my old boss would say, and there's less time to mull over the doubts. Over the next few months she shared tidbits of the relationship with us,we try not to pry as she can get quite mad if she feels someone is trying to run her life, whatever the intention. First she said he was ok with not having children of his own but later has backtracked to say he wants children and she has looked at adoption and even attempted to volunteer him as a sort of live-in nanny/father for children in the family (this of course drew rage from just about everyone in the family because, like any parents, we like to parent an raise our own children). This was not the first red flag, obviously, but was a major alert that we might need to get more directly involved because now she appears to be promising our resources and lives to her fiance. I don't know what you mean by "our", but anything you have should be kept away from this man. I can pretty much promise you that whatever you send to him will not be gotten back, unless you want to track him down and drag it out in a court case. Even then, there's no promise. She is very proud that he has told her he is virgin (already deeply into middle age) saving himself for marriage and that they hadnot slept together on her visit. I understand that it is both illegal and against Islam so I took that as a good sign of his intent as I also took his refusal to ask for money to be another good sign even though se has, over the last year, become openly obsessed with amassing a large sum of money to "bring him here and pay for his paperwork" etc etc etc. So really, she's still giving him money in the form of savings that will used to get to him over here? Yup, she's being scammed! Once he comes here, he'll get settled, and will probably leave. I doubt he's sexually/physically attracted to her enough to stay, and like his co-worker, will probably look for people more like him. I know that there are a lot of con artists out there who will wait for years before springing a trap. I'd say you're already ahead of the curve if you know that. Of course I hve to accept that I might just be paranoid. There's zero signs of paranoia in your post. All of these concerns are justified. If anything, you're giving him too much credit. First of all, not sleeping together right away is not necessarily a sign the relationship will work out. I'm in the same age range as many of the young men described on here, and its possible they won't sleep with these women right away because they are not that attracted Believe me, you can have your "fun" even in Saudi Arabia if you know the right people and places. Not that I am suggesting it, but just stating it's there. Don't fall for the "he's from a socially conservative/Muslim/religious country" and has good family values routine! There have been some issues she has had getting him the paperwork to finalize his fiance visa This is a VISA scam. which has her agitated beyond belief and she has broken down two or three times over "not leaving him there". I'm sighing as I read this. Too much drama, and she's being had. I suggested that if she did not want to weather the waits she could aways go to Morocco and marry him there and then come back to the US hat way but would have to live with him and his family if she did that. She proposed the idea and initially told us that he had said that was "fine" but now doesn't even entertain the notion and is once more rushing around trying to work her job and calling various agencies to figure out why it is taking so long. Amid all of this her co-worker, the recent citizen, has been coaching her on what to say and do at almost every juncture from interviews to paperwork and what a wait time is "supposed to be". This is a SCAM, and I strongly suspect the co-worker is in on it. If the relationship is genuine, why would there need to be coaching? She has been mostly closed mouth about her conversations with this man… In her case, it's for all the wrong reasons. 1. He has almost never smiled in any pictures, even the ones with her. (I am told this is actually a good sign, as odd as that sounds, because it is supposedly part of their culture.) If you have to resort to ridiculous hair-splitting such as smiles in pictures regardless of cultural relevance, that really speaks volumes about the relationship, and that is NOT good. 2. He has never, as she constantly reminds everyone, likely because of the Nigeran, aske her for a dime of money. (I have mixed opinions on this because on the one hand he is doing the 'manly' thing but on the other he could be biding his time so this one is inconclusive to me.) They will rarely ask directly for money. What they will do is try and guilt a person into giving them something with a big sob story. 3. On her trip, although she couldn't understand anyone, she gushes over how much his family loves her and how she "cooked with his mother" and they wanted her to stay etc. Sometimes, the family is in on the scam. These experiences are irrelevant because the "relationship" boils down to the two of them. She is not marrying the family, she is marrying the man. Coming from an old fashioned background I personally think she is reading into the family meeting aspect than she should but there is always a chance it could carry a lot of weight. You actually need to be careful about when you meet someone from abroad or on-line about them talking to your friends/family. A lot of times, they are eager to somehow validate themselves. Just because someone acts civil when family is around doesn't mean they are actually that way by default. She showed a lot of concern when he was going in for his first visa hearing because the interviewer was american and just would not understand how he is and that he doesnt show emotion outwardly, he just feels it insid,e and worried that he would be seen as ingenuine. Well, you can't rely on immigration officials to discern a relationship. I suspect they are more interested in terrorists, child sex traffickers, drug lords and media pirates. 5 She and he rehearsed online for a week before he had his interview to make sure, as he and his friend who introduced them said "got it right." The co-worker is in on the scam. I've heard of a case where a woman was contacted by friends/co-workers to bring a Balkan European to the US through marriage fraud. It didn't past muster with immigration because they couldn't prove they traveled to see each other. And why would they since there was no romantic interest anyways? I'm starting to suspect that others may be involved in this scam to get this man over here. If so, the Nigerian incident could look like a picnic compared to this. Also, in some places, you are held financially responsible by someone you bring over here through marriage fraud for up to 10 years. Many things just do not add up and I admit Im suspicious by nature. I also do not wish to be a hypocrite because Imet my own wife online. This is very different because of the international component, the drama and the rush to get a VISA. Clearly, your relative is being scammed for a VISA. The rush is on because people who are rushed have less time to stew over their doubts. That is another red flag. Am I worrying over nothing? No, because she is being scammed by two con-artists! Tell her to dump this guy and move on! If she refuses, I would call immigration and tell them exactly what I have told you: that your relative is being scammed by two men so one can get a VISA to the USA. Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. 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