you can prove just about anything w statistics
Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kafiristan (Australia), Sep 25, 2009 at 22:09
Mr Ameer_r2 replies:
"As i am 78 year old I should be excused for the misconstruction of the following even though it might be regarded as kind of a Freudian slip.I write quiclkly and do not review the grammar or check the coherence but this should be a good lesson for me. What is unintenional can always be excused by carelessness should not be when it results in a misundertanding."
One of the few Muslms here who have admitted they've made a mistake. But at 78 - hey , no harm done.
"....However, thanks for the comprehensive reply even though the attitude that it reflects by a seemingly logical presentation is in the end a polemical diatribe of Islam, the Qur'an and Muslims that only adds fuel to the fire that you want to stoke"
As opposed to your giving Islam and Muslms one big, fat non-questioning tick? The bottom line is I don't hate human beings - whether they are Muslim, eskimos, pygmies, Scientologists. I have a real thing about deluded people spreading ignorance as though the world needs any more of it. Do you really expect any sane , rational person to take the confabulation that is the Koran and hadiths with its 'buraqs' , 'talking donkeys' etc seriously? I won't even go into the life of Mohammed and his sordid life ... and you want me to 'respect' those beliefs??? I'll tolerate them and be amused (yet simultaneously somehow slightly saddened) by people that take them seriously - but that's it.
" in order to support your agenda of blind support for Israel rather than reognize the injustice done to the Palestinians even though they are not without their share of guilt."
??? Oh no!! The 'Joooz' again ! What has Israel got to do with anything? Why do you believe I am pro-Israeli? My viewpoints on Islam has ZERO to do with what I think of Israel or Judaism. Why do you even bring it up? Truly bizarre but it just goes to show - scratch a muslim and find an anti-semite. But really , at your age - you have no need to be carrying a chip on your shoulder about the Jews. Have you ever been harmed personally by a Jew?
"Your use of " changing mind "(of the Creator) regarding apparently contradictory verses shows a demeaning attitude that tries to insult a religion that is loved by so many and even respected by unbiased non- Muslims."
Again - Santa Claus and Grimms Fables are beloved by so many 5 year olds. But not all 5 year olds believe in Santa Claus. (n.b. I am not making a snide comment on belief in a creator or not here) The mistake you make is in thinking that the Koran was not made by men. Many of the verses quoted by others - are clearly contradictory , not 'apparently'. To think otherwise just shows the capacity of the human mind to deceive itself.
"It is mentioned inthe Quran about abrogation even though it is not univerally accepted. When conditions change' the response changes. When peaceful relations changed to aggression and hypocrisy verses changed as it was being revealed piecemeal. Today we may apply the verses according to what conditions we find and the changes that take place. "
Right - pick and choose whatever bits you need to suit the occasion. Or to justify your current thinking/attitudes/behaviours.
"As an American I can have Christian and Jewish friends(and relatives) and respect them for their honesty but when I am met with disrespect and hatred I can respond accordingly but always with a desire to seek peace as the prime directive. "
You don't have to be an American to have that philosophy. But you seem to mistake criticism for hatred
"We are even told to respond with good to evil so that the opponent can become like a bosom friend."
"All religions have seen extremist interpretations and acts that go against the essence of the faith. It is certainly up to the majority to try to counter it by the means available whether by power, words or condemning it in their hearts when nothing else may be possible under the conditiions."
The majority of Muslims has been EXTREMELY lax in that regard then
"For you there is no real dialogue but only a one-sided condemnation for what you regard as a religion without value and a potential for disaster for the whole world."
Nice try at pigeonholing my viewpoint but you have no idea what I really think. But how can you - seeing you just make assumptions based on a few paragraphs here and there. But now that you've brought it up it's fair to say that so far in the world Islam has been of less value and more of a potential disaster than all the other major religions/philosopies.
"Many have demonized Islam before you....... "
You're sounding a little didactic here.... and aye, verily , it shall come to pass that many others will continue to speak out against the 'supreme religion' in times hence.
"....and as a result of this attitude that now has reached fever pitch and has been used as an excuse to conquer and colonize Muslim lands from the Middle East to Indonesia-the new "white man's burden" to civilize the heathen and blood thirsty Muslims."
Naaah... they can do that for themselves but if they don't they'll be assigned to the rubbish bin of history. What won't happen is everyone else giving them a chance to throw a tantrum and spoil the party .
"The goal of Christianity as is is with Islam is to spread its ideology and practices to as many as are able to accept and follow its teachings."
Islam and Christianity have different ideologies. But Christianity is not so obsessed with 'bums on seats' as Islam is. No one is going to harm or kill a Christian (or Buddhist or Hindu or Jew) for apostasising.
"Islam advises to preach with wisdom and in a good way."
And Buddhists seek to spread kindness and bring enlightenment to all sentient beings.
"The Taliban are not following this dictum ....."
"..... as many Christians did not in the past' resorting to torture and murder."
hmmm, yes - but we're talking several hundred years ago in the case of the Spanish Inquisition and mostly only in certain parts of Europe . And the Taliban are not following that dictum - they are following another one with just as much conviction - and as I said - would criticise you for your 'weakness'. I notice Muammar Gadafi sticking up for the Taliban too this week - so obviously your viewpoint is not a general consenus in the Muslim world.
"If reasonable people do not support reasonable Muslims but try to condemn Islam there will only be more and more extremist reactions. "
Reasonable people will support reasonable behaviour and and allow other people to have reasonable beliefs. But if I can insult your 'beliefs' and you get angry because of that then your beliefs are BS. You cannot insult truth.
"Where there is good intention on both sides progress can be made to achieve a peaceful world and harmony among peoples and nations.The highly charged atmosphere can only lead to conflagration that will harm innocent people."
Peace is a personal , inner experience always has been and always will be. Not something that can be imposed on others , brought about through politics nor achieved through stepping around each other's 'sensitivities'.
"Terrorism begins with the failure to address injustice and oppression and the lack of real freedom for the majjority asa result of the real politik being practiced by nations."
That's one opinion. And it is by no means comprehensive. terrorism can be caused by any reason and by PERCEIVED injustices and even 'cultural' jealousy.
It should be: When we add up all the killing done in the name of jihad it cannot compare with that done in the name of Christianity' Jewish nationalism' democracy( not to mention by those ideologies whose followers claim to be non-violent and peaceful."
Bad maths again. Let"s divide all the wholesale slaughters in history up into different groups. Groups that would for the most part refer to themselves as non-violent, wonderful people in normal times. Let's call Ghengis Khan's onslaught across the Russian steppes, Kazahkstan and into Europe Group A. Then the Spanish conquest of South America group B, napoleon group C, the English invasion of Ireland group D, Germany & its allies Group E , the Roman Army group F, The Cinese emporor's tvast armies against the Mongos group G , The Allies in WW2 group H, the Russian Army goup I and let's say the Ottoman armies group J, the Arabs invading the middle east , North Africa and Spain group K.
All you are saying is that Group K is smaller in number than all the other groups combined. It means nothing.
I can just as easily say that groups A through G and groups J-K far outnumber group H and I would be right.
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