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Actually-Proper Church Doctrine has Everything to do With Jesus as Messiah

Reader comment on item: How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel
in response to reader comment: This has nothing to do with Jesus being, or not being, the Messiah

Submitted by M. Tovey (United States), Sep 30, 2014 at 19:10

Restoration of the Davidic Kingdom

There is a historic set of circumstances which has become both problematic and a sticking point in prophetic applications of Biblical understanding of who is to be the successor king of Israel; and when does the final form of the kingdom of the promise actually begin. Many will attempt to defeat the premise purely based on inappropriate applications of those Scriptures that point to a Messiah who is to come while missing the dual nature of the prophesies; this occurs while at the same time misapplications of other scriptures are debated so as to further cloud the promises to Israel and her future kingdom destiny.

Each perspective, whether Judaic or Christianesque, that does not resort to spiritless interpretations, must either find that both scriptural applications, of both an anointed servant and anointed monarch are in the Biblical Tanach; or neither can be counted upon to be the Redeemer of Israel in her time of need and restoration. Such a distinction is presented here.

Of all the books of the Tanach, Isaiah, in its full rendering from a single prophetic worldview, presents a composite portrait of the person that Israel should be expecting at the time of her final deliverance. While there are the servant implications of a son that assumes the right of ascendency, at the same time the full application of the descendency to the throne is to be found and understood. All scriptural application must be understood in order to appropriately identify who has the right to be the Son of Man, Son of David.

There is written in Isaiah, chapter 33:22): For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us. That being written, who do we expect to be king, except the LORD? The conclusion must be it is the LORD. So the question: who does Israel expect to be the approaching king? And who do the gentiles look for, since according to scripture, He will be One and the same? He will be the same.

The setting appears in the Holy Writ as a future situation for the final occupation of the throne, since the Jewish nation has yet to have the LORD seated as king. A questions is posed; is He seated on the throne as a man like David (the Son of David); or will He be the conquering LORD as is shown in Ezekiel 43:4-8); As the glory of the LORD entered the temple by the gate facing east, 5) the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the LORD filled the temple. 6) While the man was standing beside me, I heard one speaking to me out of the temple, 7) and he said to me, "Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the people of Israel forever. And the house of Israel shall no more defile my holy name, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoring and by the dead bodies of their kings at their high places, 8) by setting their threshold by my threshold and their doorposts beside my doorposts, with only a wall between me and them. They have defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed, so I have consumed them in my anger.

For comparison, we might read in Isaiah 59:19-20); So they shall fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun; for he will come like a rushing stream, which the wind of the LORD drives. 20) "And a Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression," declares the LORD.

Now do we expect the king to arrive as it is written in Zechariah 9:9); Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your king is coming to you; righteous and having salvation is he, humble and mounted on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. Or are we to expect Him who the Holy Writ describes in Zechariah 14:16); Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. Again, who are we expecting?

Under a search and determination of a decidedly Christianesque perspective, the dual nature of the prophetic calls of a Messiah were fulfilled in the Person of Yeshua HaNazaret, Jesus Christ. Much of the modern view of Orthodox Judaism rejects this for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is traceable to the time of the Nazarene's arrival, ministry and eventual termination nearly two thousand years ago. Without belaboring all the causes of the negativity that engenders, let it sufficient to say they have developed their own strong case for not believing, which is strange since unbelief was part of their original judgment.

Stemming from a reading of Isaiah 11:1) There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
2) And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him,
the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD
. 4) but with righteousness he shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth; and he shall strike the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall kill the wicked. Is this not the Messiah?

Continuing in Isaiah 11:10) In that day the root of Jesse, who shall stand as a signal for the peoples—of him shall the nations inquire, and his resting place shall be glorious. 11) In that day the Lord will extend his hand yet a second time to recover the remnant that remains of his people, from Assyria, from Egypt, from Pathros, from Cush, from Elam, from Shinar, from Hamath, and from the coastlands of the sea. How is this not the Messiah when the Anointed One is the only one this can refer to?

We search further and read, Isaiah 12:2) "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and will not be afraid; for the LORD GOD is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation." And then following closely, there is verse 12:6) Shout, and sing for joy, O inhabitant of Zion, for great in your midst is the Holy One of Israel." This too, points to the Messiah. But the Judaic contention is this: when did, or when does, this take place? Again, the disciple of the Messiah is directed to the issue of the Nazarene as already fulfilling the immediate prophetic implication and the second part is yet to come.

To take a quick look at the Judaic perspective, reader Shlomo from another post in this forum said this of his expectation (which is shared quite broadly in his community: This is what the real messiah is supposed to accomplish during his time on Earth: from here he extols all of the magnificent attributes of the King Messiah, but dismisses the 'servant verses' since the entire expectation for the expectant Jewish person is the desire to get to the routing of all nations that have besieged Israel for a very, very long time. He punctuates with: If he had really been the messiah, every single Jew would have noticed and no one would doubt it. As is the case after nearly two thousand years, it did not go as expected and many still ask: why is that?

The answer is: that only those verses that predicted a conquering Messiah were being amplified and those of the servant Messiah were not so nearly compelling. After all, how could the servant become king? The answer is deeply rooted in Jewish culture. The Messiah is the heir to the Davidic throne, first as an obedient son of David, as the root of Jess shown in the opening verses of Isaiah eleven; and at the same time, as noted in Isaiah 33:22, it IS the LORD. He, therefore, cannot be, is not going to be, mere mortal. So from a disciple's perspective, his first attempt to get a following out of the believing remnant in Israel was unwittingly terminated, yet the witness is that He ascended to the right hand of the Eternal Sovereign, His Father. Upon receiving the signal, well, most devoted Jewish followers pretty much have His return set in its fulfillment of the conquering Messiah.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Title Commenter Date Thread
Church attendence and acceptance of Israel [101 words]Yechiel ShlipshonJan 2, 2017 16:20235065
What about Iranians? [27 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonAug 22, 2014 01:40217312
The main reason Christians support Israel [35 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Dave CoenAug 19, 2014 19:08217261
3What does it matter? [97 words]saraAug 19, 2014 22:31217261
You're generalizing, Dave [55 words]Michael S.Aug 23, 2014 04:55217261
Judaism is incompatible with Christianity [38 words]BergAug 24, 2014 23:04217261
Understanding Judaism [97 words]Michael S.Aug 27, 2014 11:03217261
Israel needs more "Trojan Horses" [533 words]Michael S.Aug 31, 2014 18:56217261
If you think Judaism is that bad, Christianity is even worse [42 words]DanSep 2, 2014 14:47217261
Absolutes, divisions and taking things seriously [455 words]Michael S.Sep 3, 2014 20:56217261
Judaism & Christianity [470 words]Michael S.Sep 4, 2014 02:12217261
True Christianity Dependent Upon Jewish Roots - The WORD of the LORD [562 words]M. ToveySep 4, 2014 13:43217261
Jesus, Abraham and Israel [753 words]Michael S.Sep 9, 2014 04:28217261
If Yeshua was the messiah, he'd have proved it [347 words]Shlomo S.Sep 9, 2014 15:10217261
"Jews for Jesus" propaganda [34 words]JudithSep 11, 2014 11:38217261
Why people become Christians [955 words]Michael S.Sep 12, 2014 21:55217261
Michael S. I invite you to read the following article: [57 words]RabbiSep 15, 2014 14:54217261
Proof is in the Belief - Thousands of Believing Sons of Jacob Cannot All Be Wrong [523 words]M. ToveySep 15, 2014 19:25217261
1True Christians are called to Faith - Just as Jewish Believers [736 words]M. ToveySep 16, 2014 16:44217261
Thank you, Rabbi, for your comment. [336 words]Michael S.Sep 17, 2014 02:51217261
More on Christians, and support for Israel [897 words]Michael S.Sep 17, 2014 03:50217261
Yes, they can all be wrong [90 words]RabbiSep 17, 2014 14:22217261
And Why Again Could Yeshua Not Be the Messiah? [912 words]M. ToveySep 17, 2014 19:14217261
Historical proof [494 words]Michael S.Sep 18, 2014 06:06217261
Why All the Efforts to Find Wrong - Find the Love in the Right - In the Truth [522 words]M. ToveySep 18, 2014 14:25217261
RE: And Why Again Could Yeshua Not Be the Messiah? [92 words]RabbiSep 18, 2014 14:34217261
Christians and the Best Expressions for Judaism [484 words]M. ToveySep 18, 2014 19:15217261
A Rabbi? [39 words]saraSep 18, 2014 20:40217261
This has nothing to do with Jesus being, or not being, the Messiah [667 words]Michael S.Sep 19, 2014 03:29217261
The Two Wintesses [1139 words]Michael S.Sep 22, 2014 11:56217261
Religions and common sense -- not necessarily the same thing [45 words]Michael S.Sep 22, 2014 20:59217261
Actually-Proper Church Doctrine has Everything to do With Jesus as Messiah [1459 words]M. ToveySep 30, 2014 19:10217261
leading servants [51 words]m. langeOct 2, 2014 22:43217261
Have a meaningful Yom Kippur [538 words]Michael S.Oct 3, 2014 06:03217261
Catholic who believes in israel [150 words]CatholicFeb 8, 2015 21:18217261
Not true! [49 words]ColleenMay 31, 2015 20:40217261
Churches' political influence underestimated. [38 words]PermReaderAug 15, 2014 12:42217173
the role played by conformism (as well as cowardice) in the success of the Left in whitewashing Hamas, et al., in our time [812 words]Kenneth H. GreenAug 11, 2014 10:30217080
In a Conformist world, Israel's best friend is its nukes [432 words]Michael S.Aug 14, 2014 14:50217080
religious leanings [17 words]samAug 10, 2014 16:18217069
Not just church attendance, but the bible affects truth and attitudes, it is the book of knowledge and wisdom, past, present, and future. [159 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 14:48217028
Church Attendance and God's word affects American attitudes for Israel for sure! [279 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 14:33217027
Second Temple Replica Megachurch in Brazil [29 words]PezDispenserAug 9, 2014 10:39217013
1Christians Who Read The Old Testament Tend To Love Israel More [82 words]Lujack SkylarkAug 7, 2014 21:00216974
1Christians who read the Old Testament Tend to Love Israel more......response to Lujack Skylark [113 words]AnneAug 21, 2014 07:46216974
Predictions and Percentages [29 words]Michael s.Sep 22, 2014 21:09216974
How Church Attendance affects attitudes toward Isarel. Jesus was Jew..the true Messiah. Non believers come up short. [89 words]AnneSep 23, 2014 07:48216974
Matthew 24 didn't say much about these times. [1737 words]Michael S.Sep 25, 2014 21:26216974
Prophetic outline of things to come. You don't know the obvious times! [176 words]AnneSep 27, 2014 08:31216974
No need for compliments. [329 words]Michael S.Sep 30, 2014 11:40216974
The Duece You Say: Yeshua HaNazaret Meant Every WORD [979 words]M. ToveyOct 3, 2014 12:11216974
The Third Temple. Chag Sameach [1195 words]MIchael S.Oct 10, 2014 05:05216974
Ezekiel Ch 40, etc.: What the Church Should Expect; But Many Do Not [1017 words]M. ToveyOct 15, 2014 12:11216974
politics of masses [25 words]WarrenAug 7, 2014 11:03216964
Church attendance impact on Israel support [117 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jim TittsworthAug 6, 2014 22:41216837
Testing for a Commitment Towards Israel [285 words]M. ToveyAug 6, 2014 17:08216763
Israel and Biblical Christians [11 words]Clifford IshiiAug 6, 2014 15:28216736
1Exceptions which prove the rule? [235 words]Doug MayfieldAug 6, 2014 05:15216584
The only surprise is the change in US Jewish views [169 words]Michael S.Aug 6, 2014 01:03216558
Anti-Israel Jews are rewarded. [143 words]ToddAug 7, 2014 18:50216558
Above neck level [14 words]Michael SAug 12, 2014 15:27216558
Anti Semitism in San Francisco [20 words]Robin RosenblattAug 5, 2014 21:44216556
Arab-Israeli Debate in the USA [314 words]EmanuelAug 5, 2014 21:30216555
How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes Toward Israel [105 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
JuithAug 5, 2014 20:05216553
1How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel [20 words]steven LAug 5, 2014 20:00216552
Christian persecutipon [28 words]steven LAug 9, 2014 00:14216552
1A simple response to this article. [41 words]Gene C FowlerAug 5, 2014 19:26216551
1I am In total agreement with you on the truth! [160 words]AnneAug 9, 2014 15:01216551
Then how do you explain... [21 words]RealityAug 19, 2014 18:58216551
Israel and marriage [9 words]Jonathan T.Aug 20, 2014 13:02216551
Once again the minority of gays are 1.2%, maybe 10% worldwide. [111 words]AnneAug 21, 2014 07:33216551
Like most Israelis actually care [24 words]TheodorAug 22, 2014 13:52216551
Ironic [31 words]Paul SobekAug 22, 2014 16:31216551
That is the point...there is a day coming when all of Israel will be totally awakened. [25 words]AnneAug 25, 2014 10:20216551
Its called Love honey...Response to Paul Sobek [55 words]AnneAug 25, 2014 10:24216551
Interesting numbers [60 words]David W. LincolnAug 5, 2014 19:03216550
A caution re alleged "93% of Jews symphathize more with Israel" [52 words]MarkAug 5, 2014 17:33216549

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