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More on Christians, and support for Israel

Reader comment on item: How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel
in response to reader comment: True Christians are called to Faith - Just as Jewish Believers

Submitted by Michael S. (United States), Sep 17, 2014 at 03:50

Shalom M. Tovey. You said,

In continuing your thoughts, we do share many concepts about what our Christianity might appear to others, if we truly thought that the Holy Spirit was the same guide to our faith as it appears in contrast to what the mainstream religions try to make it out to be. We, you and I, coming from Americanized Christianity, distilled, shaken and stirred, emerged from the those Sunday School lessons knowing about Jesus, but not taking away the most important part about being Christian, truly knowing Jesus Christ.

I spent 2-3 years associated with a "Jesus Only" Pentecostal church, with a strong bent towards "faith" (which is to say, as actually practiced, "guilt"), and many more years with churches loosely associated with what we called "Charismatic" Christianity. I may still pray at times in tongues; but nearly always pray with understanding; so I don't doubt the validity of others who feel a connection with God in this way. In the nitty-gritty of dealing with brethren in those circumstances, though, I have seen so much abuse and foolishness that I wouldn't blame onlookers from thinking we were completely mad. Human nature is alive and well in every type of Christianity. True spirituality seems to be in short supply, though -- and mainly stored, forgive my boast, in my wife. True spirutuality begins with the love of God, and first manifests itself in humility.

I don't even like to use the word "Christian"; because there is so much evil practiced in its name. Jesus Christ, aka Yeshua haMachiach, on the other hand, is beyond reproach; and his God is above all gods.

Is your name really "Tovey"? Is it an Anglicization of the Yiddish טויב ("Dove")? More to the point, are you Jewish? I am not, because my only Jewish ancestors are on my mother's mother's father's side; and we all know the rules concerning these things. I actually am somewhat observant -- by force of habit now, more than anything else. I don't eat pork and shellfish, etc., nor mix dairy with meat (fish and poultry excepted); keep Shabbat during the proper time, and have a מְזוּזָה with the appropriate scriptures in it on my doorpost. At my daughter's wedding, I gave the Aharonic blessing because I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. I just sort of stumbled and bumbled into these things, long before ever meeting a rabbi.

I guess this could be called following what you call the "Holy Spirit"; but you might not think of it as such. What I consider the "holy spirit" (purposely not capitalized, because I don't think spirits are "persons"), is simply being motivated by a desire to do what God wants me to do. If that leads me to be a religious misfit, then so be it. Wasn't Jesus also considered a misfit?

"...so many times, in nearly humanist fashion, we are told that the 'spirit' has led someone to do something other than the will of the Father and the spirit of deception is bought into the play..."

Been there, done that. The earthly comes first, then the heavenly. Some of us have been fools for God, which is actually wisdom.

As for the idea that a Jewish person who believes the LORD in the Brit Hadassah becoming 'Christian,' this is another fabrication; for Paul writes that the belief in HaMashiach by sons of Jacob is treated differently than a gentile coming to faith; and he does so with great warning to the non-Jewish believers-if the Eternal Sovereign spared not the sons of Jacob in unbelief, how much worse would it be for the goyim who would dare to think they can replace Judaism in vain. As for the baptism part, it was a Jewish practice long before it was 'Christian.' As such, I personally would not call a Jewish believer 'Christian', but brother/sister.

"Jews" and "Christians" are, in most people's eyes, labels like "Democrat" and "Republican", etc. They're thought of in zero-sum terms; so that identifying with one is seen as the betrayal of the other. I just don't do that. When my Jewish brothers and sisters are in danger (Yes, that is how I think of them), I want to help them.

To a Jew, the following might be confusing; but I think you will understand it:

Rev 11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

The word for "witness" is, of course, "martyr". A witness is someone who has seen something, and testifies about it. Believers in Jesus are witnesses of Jesus; because they tell people about what they have seen and heard and practiced in their own lives, which is the manifestation of our Lord; and the life of Messiah in us is a manifestation of God's word. Jews are also witnesses; because they speak the words of God which they, as a people, once heard in the mount. Those are God's two witnesses on the earth. The world hates both of them and tries to kill them, giving the word "martyr" the meaning most people associate with it.

Having said all that, I love Israel; and I can see that you do too.

Shalom shalom :-)

Submitting....

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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