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A Centrist Catholic's Response to the truly dangerous Christofascists pretending to be "Conservatives"

Reader comment on item: What Is the Future of Conservatism in the Wake of the 2012 Election?
in response to reader comment: Liberalism appeals to all the baser appetites

Submitted by rob the guy (United States), Jan 29, 2013 at 18:29

I will try to explain, in detail, how modern neo-conservatives and the more dogmatic Conservative Christians and also the Anti-Goverment Loons have no idea what liberals are, what they stand for or how the general philosophy works.


For Once In A Hundred Years, Shut Up About "Creeping Marxism"! It's Embarassing to Our Education System! We are known worldwide for being the most right-wing country AND Communism is long dead! Learn what Marxism/Communism actually means if you can't help yourselves. It only takes a little bit of study to grasp and a little cold war history to know the status of. It's become the easiest way to tell how warped someone's knowledge of political science, history and current affairs are. When used as a political epithet, non-lunatics can very easily identify mindless growing fringe of stupidity that has overtaken mainstream "American Conservatism" in the 2000's. There are NO Soviet spies any longer. The Marxism-Leninism that we fought through the last century has become almost completely extinct as a relevant political tendency. We have Cuba (who now allows religion), Nepal(a mess), a half-ass version of Marxism/Liberation Theology in Venezuela, Psuedo-Capitalism in China(who has no interest in world revolution or actual communism), and Psycho-Confusion Fascism which has no Communist qualities whatsoever in North Korea.



Not only are you wrong in respect to America's history, it's innovative energy source, the Liberal philosophy towards religion (which is unchanged since Jefferson), but more to the point, theologically and philosophically! Theologically, if you call yourself "Christian" (a term with quite the long list of definitions today), you would have no focus whatsoever on the laws in Deuteronomy! There are hundreds and the homosexual law seems to be the only one you people acknowledge! In fact, it's become the only thing that most "Conservative Christians", who also call themselves "Patriotic Americans" ironically seem to define themselves with! There is nothing "Christian" or "American" about such ignorance! As for the attempt to require contraception in healthcare (which is no longer the case), this "Catholic" belief does not apply to non-Catholics nor do about 90% of Catholic Americans who just don't really agree with Rome! No one said Catholics had to use condoms, they said American institutions must offer healthcare (which happens to include contraceptives!), and as someone who doesn't agree with abortion myself, contraception is the biggest tool in lowering abortion rates!

For centuries Conservative Protestants have LOATHED, FEARED and ATTACKED Catholics assuming we would "ruin your values" and for listening to Papal authority on theological concerns! Jews got it even worse but since WW2, anti-Semitism has become distasteful to the same demographic who once persecuted them, so it's become Philo-semetism, which is just as bigoted in my opinion (as well as transparent). But now that Catholics and Jews are off the fear market, the Satanic Panic has been deemed ridiculous, Communism fallen, you have targeted Islam, sometimes Hindus and Sikhs and Non-Theists as the "existential threat". SOME Catholics have aligned with conservatism so all of the sudden, even Southern Baptists care about them if it suits the right-wing agenda! So instead of fearing a "Papal States" of America, you fear Sharia Law - AND extinct Marxism at the same time! Note, these two ideas are completely in opposition to each other! As for Sharia, you HAVE to be kidding me! There are less 1% of Americans following Islam and they are going to change our legal system? Are you completely out of your minds? Paranoid from drug abuse? I don't know, but it's no wonder we less productive as a nation! It's not "Liberals", it's time wasted being afraid of your own shadows!

America has been PLURALIST since it's very inception! (See Thomas Paine, John Adams, Washington, and mostly Jefferson for further clarity). In fact, from a European perspective, it's the ONE thing that made us "American" besides anti-Monarchism! We have also had a tacky history of hazing and fearing every new At first it was a bunch of different Protestants who hated each other but coexisted, then radical reformers like Anabaptists/Quakers etc, then Mormons, then Catholics, then Jews, then more recently Buddhists-Hindus and other Eastern religions, now Muslims and Atheists. Yet America still stands! Ironically, our most beloved founding fathers were either "freethinkers" or Deists (Today, you would consider them falling at different points between Unitarian Universalists and Agnostics). Those that were self-identified devout Christians participated but were much less influential than the "liberal" theists I named.

If the majority of non-Theists side with liberals, it's because they support separation of church and state and are reacting to the rise of Conservative Christianity in Politics in recent years, which understandably would be a threat to them (and all other religions). Most Agnostics/Atheists that I know could care less about what anyone else believes or what our money says! American has European and therefore Christian roots...but was NEVER, EVER (since the Revolution) a Christian nation! Most of the "God" references came in the 1900's to distinguish us from Communism. I feel we should keep them as clearly party of our accumulated heritage, but it doesn't mean we reject others! What could be less Christian!



How can you rationalize demonizing Liberalism but support Libertarianism? If you run Libertarian philosophy(if it can be considered as such) to it's logical conclusion, you actually enable the society you fear! It's as foolishly utopian and dangerous as Communism but has even less humanistic compassion and is basically "Libertinism" with a much more materialistic, and ignorant understanding of humanity...also is about as unethical as an idea can be!

Liberalism on the other hand, is, has been, always will be pro-Capitalist by definition, and rejects Socialism. Conservatives confuse the Liberal support of equal-opportunity for universal equality aside from ability and hence reach the fullest potential of democratic meritocracy. This means an equal starting line and fair wages according to ability, NOT EVEN CLOSE to a communist full redistribution of wealth removing financial opportunity! The social safety net - read, welfare, social security, disability - is a Western and very Christian concept which, aside from peace and tolerance, is the most pronounced teaching in Jesus' in the Gospels!

Conclusion: Liberalism vs. Conservative Idea Of "Liberalism"

A welfare safety net, social security, and religious/humanitarian tolerance and gender/racial/etc equality (which define a Liberal agenda) are impossible concepts to a Communist State and are 100% incompatible with Marxism!

For the record, this is what Communism actually means -Revolutionary overthrow of bourgeois class and Dictatorship of the Proletariat(working class), Collectivism, Totalistic Redistribution, conversion to the socialist mode of production, repression of competing ideology, mandatory Atheism. All these ideas are completely and fiercly OPPOSED by Liberals.

Liberalism is the actual ideology that Marx and Engels were trying to start a revolution against! Not hardline Christianity!

Stop assuming EVERYTHING that isn't within your worldview is somehow "liberalism", it's rediculous. Pornography, for one example, would be more of a libertarian concern (although i'm sure many on all side support/oppose it) Please stop with the Red-Scares, Fear-mongering, Assuming Any Media That Isn't "Conservative" Is A Liberal Network Conspiracy (It's sensationalism, not "liberalism"), Religious-Supremacy, Anti-Science, Anti-Dissent, Historical Revisionism, Golden Age Delusions that never happened, Scapegoating, Bigotry justified by Scripture you don't even adhere to, Fear of "Others" conspiring to destroy American Values - Especially since those values which we are known for and which Islamists, Fascists and Marxists despise us for are actually diversity, cultural assimilation balanced with relativism, women's equality, electoral democracy, pluralist religious policy, secular government, freedom of media, and a powerful education network with major technological innovation, and perhaps most of all FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION. This is what "American" means compared to other countries (though many of adapted)! Return to the non-crazy Days of Fiscal Conservatism, Preservation of Nature, Pro-Efficiency, Less Hawkish Non-interventionism as well as RESTRAINT in policy to keep the progressives from moving too quickly. Intervention was once a bad LIBERAL policy which you guys have decided to inherit and ruin our reputation worse than Vietnam did.


Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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Reader comments (46) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Republican not = conservative [81 words]Yosi DermanFeb 28, 2013 14:21203936
Alternative For Conservatives [25 words]Clifford IshiiJan 26, 2013 15:13202815
Denying Evil [169 words]Mike FranklinJan 19, 2013 16:49202674
ignorance prevails..... [61 words]TomJun 10, 2013 14:17202674
The sin of the despondency [60 words]BenJan 13, 2013 16:05202587
3Bleak Future for Conservatism [475 words]Ali BabaJan 12, 2013 00:48202573
2Proverbial foolishness at its best [415 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJan 17, 2013 12:34202573
1Typical response of the Ultra-Conservative [628 words]Ali BabaJan 18, 2013 00:52202573
Amazing analysis [48 words]NickJan 19, 2013 06:04202573
Way to go Ali Baba!! Love it [64 words]NickJan 19, 2013 06:23202573
1Keep following the red bricked road [356 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJan 19, 2013 19:07202573
Apologies [297 words]Ali BabaJan 19, 2013 21:42202573
Thanks Nick! [12 words]Ali BabaJan 21, 2013 04:17202573
1Funny thing about God [145 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJan 22, 2013 17:13202573
Enough of your lame propaganda "Ali Baba" [528 words]ShishirMar 12, 2013 07:56202573
defining element of us political culture [197 words]mythJan 8, 2013 01:40202511
1The Future of Conservatism May Be Its Past [796 words]SigmundJan 6, 2013 15:12202465
2High marx [29 words]JoelJan 8, 2013 00:57202465
Good News [131 words]SigmundJan 9, 2013 07:32202465
Marx brothers [25 words]JoelJan 14, 2013 06:00202465
What is the future of Conservativism in the Wake of the 2012 Election. [170 words]AnneJan 6, 2013 08:24202448
Stupidity of the electorate [198 words]WillJan 7, 2013 02:34202448
1There would have been a difference in philosophies. response to Will [173 words]AnneJan 7, 2013 22:44202448
I agree, but... [147 words]WillJan 9, 2013 04:39202448
Changing philsophies from that of Big Government can do alot for the people. response to Will. [134 words]AnneJan 10, 2013 18:41202448
It's not just the culture... [150 words]HomefrontJan 5, 2013 19:30202437
Charles Johnson? [30 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
GabrielJan 5, 2013 13:05202434
Blog [6 words]GabrielJan 7, 2013 03:03202434
1A liberal's responds [286 words]Gunther SchiffJan 4, 2013 13:41202418
Partial Response to Gunther [204 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiJan 5, 2013 12:48202418
1Liberal La-la Land [312 words]WillJan 6, 2013 17:40202418
3Stop the liberals lying and destructive freight train ... [94 words]NuritGJan 4, 2013 03:04202404
The Cost of the American 2012 Election - And Was It Worth It? [678 words]M. ToveyJan 3, 2013 12:50202377
5It Wasn't About Conservatism [193 words]Gene TagliaJan 3, 2013 12:25202375
Election results [293 words]Straight_Talk_LuigiJan 5, 2013 12:38202375
And then some [221 words]DEBORAH THE JUDGEJan 8, 2013 22:57202375
Culture versus Romney [66 words]Dennis SchneiderJan 3, 2013 11:55202372
yes, "politics is downstream from culture" - I wrote as much a few yrs ago: [585 words]MarkJan 3, 2013 11:41202370
6Government schools create liberals [278 words]SusanJan 3, 2013 10:37202366
But Wait Until These Same Children Become Adults And Get Out Into The "Real World" [48 words]AnneMJan 4, 2013 07:17202366
1the need of adulthood [250 words]Mary H. StewartJan 3, 2013 08:30202363
Conservatives optimistic, yes—but convincing? [59 words]WillJan 3, 2013 06:46202361
4Liberalism appeals to all the baser appetites [702 words]KeithJan 6, 2013 00:36202361
2A Centrist Catholic's Response to the truly dangerous Christofascists pretending to be "Conservatives" [1432 words]rob the guyJan 29, 2013 18:29202361
1Todays "Conservatives" are a contradictory mix of fearful and spiteful groups with competing agendas ... [1138 words]GWFeb 4, 2013 14:03202361
Further comments [158 words]GKFeb 5, 2013 10:56202361

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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