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No canine genes in Turkish DNA?

Reader comment on item: Cyprus on the World Stage
in response to reader comment: Genetics of the people of Turkey

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Oct 26, 2011 at 09:20

Steven A. Adelman wrote :

" Here are the estimates of Central Asian ancestry among Turks. One is from an American group, which says 11%, and the other from a Turkish group which says 13%. This is nothing to brag about since all non-Africans have a 4% Neanderthal make up.

Other geneticists have different estimates. But they all agree that Turks are mainly of Anatolian descent.

It's interesting to see some valid genetic data on modern Turks. It's also funny to learn that with merely 11-13% of Turkic genes in their genetic code the Anatolian Turks pretend in earnest to be the purest representatives of the superior Turkic race which they are taught have created ALL civilization and which they aspire to unite again in accordance with their Pan-Turkic doctrine ! They also claim that they are not just direct descendents of the legendary Ashina the father of all Turkic peoples , the mother being a she-wolf whom Ashina impregnated. ( I wonder if no canine genes have been discovered in Turkish DNA material yet?) They do claim that their ancestors are the Hittites and the Sumerians themselves and that Turkish is the most ancient human language and the mother of all languages ! ;)

Anyway, I suspect that genetic data for today's Turkish realities poses a variety of problems if one tries to interpret them in the light of known history. What geneticists reveal has no doubt full relevance for today's Turkey but how is it related to the past ? I am not sure that seeing only the final result , i.e. today's Anatolian mongrel with little resemblance to other Turkic people, one is able to reconstruct the exact way this result was brought about. I mean that e.g. from Byzantine history we do hear of incessant invasions and settlements of Altaic peoples in or near Byzantine territories starting from the Huns, then the Avars, the Bulgars, the Khasars, the Pechenegs, the Cumans etc. and continuing long after Manzikert. These were not the Oguz and Turkmen nomad tribes that occupied and flooded Asia Minor after 1071. After the Ottoman conquests in Europe the descendants of these earlier Altaic populations were subjugated too and paid with their blood (harems and converts) the "right" to be left alive by the Ottoman master race. Yet can genetics distinguish them and/or subtract this non-Moslem Turkic elements from what was the main body of Moslem Turkic invaders in the 11th century ? Can it identify the later additions to this Turkic Moslem tribes of Alp Arslan , say- those Turkic tribes that ran away from Central Asia to Asia Minor out of fear for the Mongolians in the 13th and 14th century? The Turks of Ertogrul and his son Osman , i.e. the Ottomans, were such later refugees from what is now Afghanistan.

I heard of a Turkish speaking Christian community in Abkhasia/ Russia.It turns out that they are Turks who were expelled by Kemal from Pontus in 1920-1921 simply because they didn't want to convert to Islam. The fact that they were in all other respect Turks didn't save them at all ! If they have Central Asiatic ancestry as they say they do, then definitely they must belong to those pre-Islamic Turks integrated into the Byzantine society and converted to Christianity. But again can genetics without history explain such and other anomalies and facts ?

Submitting....

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Reader comments (78) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Parallels between Israel/"Occupied Territories" vs Turkey/Northern Cyprus [73 words]Sigmund DermanJan 6, 2012 15:27192343
1You are so naive Sigmund Derman [59 words]PrashantJan 7, 2012 10:50192343
2Cyprus Need Firm US Backing [67 words]DaveDec 28, 2011 21:45192118
4Better be careful! [104 words]YovenOct 14, 2011 20:18190041
14Israel, Cyprus and Greece [366 words]jgetsOct 13, 2011 14:46190011
1Another suggession [182 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:12190011
15End of the Turkish anomaly [314 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 10:12190011
1My answer to Ianus [665 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 22:51190011
7Wrong history [364 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 08:42190011
6"Chechen civilization" - slave markets, beheadings and kidnappings [436 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 09:52190011
2Banerjee I can;t believe this guy. [32 words]KayT (India)Dec 30, 2011 03:24190011
I do not forget anything [114 words]Debanjan BanerjeeDec 31, 2011 03:43190011
Banerjee's wierd logic [35 words]PrashantJan 1, 2012 15:46190011
What will Russia's policy be? [90 words]Stuart FaginOct 13, 2011 08:26190006
5biased interests [83 words]AthinagorasOct 13, 2011 00:56190002
1Theatre like Cyprus [145 words]Jay1Oct 12, 2011 19:39189996
10USA's past romances [99 words]L. ManoharOct 12, 2011 04:11189985
1L Manohar's point to ponder. [63 words]PrashantOct 13, 2011 21:57189985
13Neither old nor romantic ! Turks buy love from the US through high-ranking govermental pimps [885 words]IanusOct 14, 2011 16:22189985
4Turks in Cyprus and the real reason for the Greek coup [198 words]George PhilipOct 11, 2011 16:22189975
2Turkish identity is a mixture of Turkic migrants and indigenous converts. [68 words]Jon OzOct 12, 2011 21:56189975
1Another potential match [134 words]Joe Six-PackOct 13, 2011 12:53189975
15How and what the Turkish community in Cyprus "developed". [1065 words]IanusOct 15, 2011 19:54189975
3Turks also did good things [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:36189975
5Debanjan's only purpose is to irritate others [58 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 01:49189975
2Genetics of the people of Turkey [239 words]Steven A. AdelmanOct 25, 2011 14:14189975
7Regress as a "good thing" and demographic war as "intermerriage" [2793 words]IanusOct 25, 2011 18:57189975
2If you want to refute me you can Josh [126 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 00:58189975
5My empire is better than yours - wrong [109 words]PeterOct 26, 2011 08:01189975
8No canine genes in Turkish DNA? [564 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 09:20189975
What you give is only drivel [813 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 31, 2011 06:36189975
5"These Christians are not even worth burial, let the dogs eat them." [1261 words]IanusOct 31, 2011 20:17189975
8OMG [57 words]Peter HallNov 2, 2011 00:40189975
3OMG you are really clutching at straws [40 words]Peter HallNov 2, 2011 01:05189975
My answer [108 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 2, 2011 23:30189975
Forced conversion [366 words]ProxenosNov 2, 2011 23:46189975
1My answers on Cyprus [511 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 2, 2011 23:59189975
5Oriental solipsism [436 words]IanusNov 3, 2011 19:24189975
2Ah, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing [97 words]Peter HallNov 3, 2011 23:47189975
8what a victim complex you have!! [226 words]Peter HallNov 4, 2011 00:08189975
1Another mistake in Islamists' argumentation [227 words]PrashantNov 5, 2011 11:23189975
6Debanjans bizarre universe [147 words]ShishirNov 5, 2011 16:54189975
4Debanjan says: I see your drivel and raise you a delusion! [324 words]ShishirNov 5, 2011 17:12189975
My reply to Shishir [388 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 08:39189975
My Answer to my fellow Bangla babu [176 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 08:55189975
Occidental exceptionalism [715 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:29189975
My answer to Mr. Hall [195 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:37189975
1My answer to Mr. Shishir [657 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:52189975
3Debanjan Banerjee I have told you there is no need to further demonstrate ... [814 words]Peter HallNov 6, 2011 20:26189975
3... Are you serious? [161 words]Peter HallNov 7, 2011 03:55189975
2Answer to Kurdish question [298 words]ShishirNov 7, 2011 12:17189975
5Oriental obscurantism at its best [1822 words]IanusNov 7, 2011 18:06189975
3Debanjan I think you are the blind one here [527 words]Peter HallNov 7, 2011 19:01189975
1Debanjan Banerjee's ideas about surplus Kurdish population [134 words]JoshNov 8, 2011 02:35189975
2Romans and Ottomans:Apples and Oranges [384 words]ShishirNov 8, 2011 16:43189975
Mr. Josh [94 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 8, 2011 20:21189975
Occidental exceptionalism at its best [596 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 9, 2011 02:15189975
1I rest my case after I make these two points [168 words]JoshNov 9, 2011 23:09189975
1Debanjan's true belief [38 words]JoshNov 9, 2011 23:25189975
4Debanjan Banerjee I have told you there is no need to further demonstrate ... [165 words]Peter HallNov 10, 2011 01:30189975
4Football jihad in France [792 words]IanusNov 17, 2011 09:27189975
Propagandas do not stand for truth [581 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 19, 2011 05:23189975
What a confused man you are! [54 words]Peter HallMay 24, 2012 07:05189975
rethinking ancient beliefs [22 words]akJan 14, 2013 23:56189975
muslim turk=muslim arab of middle east [39 words]akJan 15, 2013 00:03189975
Y-DNA Turkey Turks=Y-DNA Ancient&Modern Central Asian Turks [18 words]turktoresi.comJun 17, 2015 19:15189975
3Full-on alliance between Israel and Cyprus, a gift from Heaven? [74 words]Carmen WaggonerOct 11, 2011 16:21189974
There is a very good use of Cyprus [96 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:23189974
2Idea for India [31 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 01:53189974
5And even better use for Turkey ! [140 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 09:41189974
1On the contrary [120 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 22:59189974
7Wrong resettlers [181 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 08:09189974
TURKEY, A LITLE COUNTRY ISLAND [52 words]JACQUES HADIDAOct 11, 2011 13:52189970
Obama and Clinton Cannot Play That Role [43 words]jdOct 11, 2011 13:11189967
Another thought [31 words]Peter HerzOct 12, 2011 21:43189967
Money Makes the World Go Round [24 words]Barry BlackOct 11, 2011 11:22189965
2Cyprus on the World Stage [37 words]Nenette GrunbergOct 11, 2011 10:54189964
The return [17 words]MikeOct 8, 2014 16:50189964

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