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Regress as a "good thing" and demographic war as "intermerriage"

Reader comment on item: Cyprus on the World Stage
in response to reader comment: Turks also did good things

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Oct 25, 2011 at 18:57

Debanjan Banerjee ,

It is not the first time I come across inaccurate generalities disconnected from any historical realities and mostly lacking in sound logic.Yet I don't mind addressing your points in some detail. even though I am well aware that nothing characterizes the Oriental mind you seem to represent better than inaccurate generalities, lack of curiosity, barren dogmatism, inability to face new evidence and to change one's opinions in accordance with the factual evidence.

> I never understood what was wrong in filling up lands with settlers.<

It's probable because you don't distinguish at all between cultural regress and cultural progress. In case of Cyprus its occupation by Richard the Lionheart and its exposure to the chivalrous culture of the High Middle Ages of Western Europe and the beneficial work of the Lusignan dynasty produced an amazing progress in economy, politics and culture as the quote I included in my previous post shows. Go and refute it if you can !

Cyprus before the Turkish invasion was living through the hayday of its civilization.With the imposition of the deadly Turkish yoke a period of regress, economic stagnation and slavery based on shariah and mass Moslem immigration and violence set in and continued until 1878. Does the date 1878 say anything to you by the way ?

> This is the same way through which Israel now decides to create facts on the ground and this is the same way America was won from the native American tribes. You can not blame Turkey for willing to create facts on the ground which it conquered.<

If I were to follow your form of "logic", then I should blame the Jews for changing deserts and swamps of the land misruled but the Turk into flourishing gardens and fields , for building better farms and houses than the lazy and unskilled Arabs, for introducing modern medicine to combat malaria and a plethora of other diseases against which the Arabs had just two "remedies" – Quranic chants and witch-doctors. I should furthermore blame the Jews for their modern rational work ethics and a rational worldview unlike their Moslem neighbours, shouldn't I , for being better educated , for producing an amazing number of Noble Prize winners in sciences and for doing lots and lots of other things that are subsumed under the collective term "human progress" to which Moslems have contributed nothing in fact , on the contrary contributing most to stop and reverse it ?

Well, imagine that I am not going to follow your crooked propaganda here but instead I assert that progress the Jews have brought to Palestine fully justifies their presence there and is by all means worth continuing and defending by every human being who is opposed to living under Moslem-induced regress and obscurantism .

Imagine also that both Ottoman or Kemalist Turkey has NOWHERE and NEVER brought any progress but EVERYWHERE regress, primitivism, atavism and degeneration. This is the reason why even their coreligionist Arabs hate the Turks, let alone the Bulgarians, the Serbs, the Romanians , the Greeks that have been exposed to forced cultural regress and oppression for centuries because of Turkish barbarity.

> Now the interesting thing is that non-Muslims like the Cypriots and Greeks or for that matter ISraeli regimes can never treat their Muslim subjects equally well.<

Well, how can you treat equally a religion that decalares us kafirs "the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah" (8.55) and demands from its followers "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - until they give the infidelity tax while they are humbled".(9.29) ?

Well, isn't it amazing that you blame anybody for not being suicidal or stupid enough , is it ?

>The biggest example is the massacres of Turkish Muslims at the time of Greek and Cypriot independence.<

Do you mean the same "biggest example of massacres" about which in the House of Commons the following debate took place in June and July 1958 :

"Mr. K. Robinson asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many Greek Cypriots have been killed in Cyprus in the course of communal rioting since the beginning of May ...

Mr. Profumo The Answer to the first part of the Question is "twelve" ...

Mr. K. Robinson asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies how many Turkish Cypriots have been killed in Cyprus in the course of communal rioting since the beginning of May;

The Answer to the first part of the Question is "None".

Mr. K. Robinson Has the hon. Gentleman's attention been called to the statement by Dr. Kutchuk, the leader of the Turkish Cypriots, in which he said that thousands of Turks had been murdered by Greeks in the recent disturbances? "

So your "massacres" turn out to have had no Turkish victims yet having produced claims of "thousands of Turks … murdered by Greeks in the recent disturbances ". Well, this state of affairs is usually called a lie and the fact that you are bringing up this Turkish lie here as yours sheds a curious light not just on your Turks but also on you.

Beware also of other details when lying about "Turkish massacres" next time. The first massacre in Cyprus between the Turks and the Greeks took place at Geunyeli, 12 miles from Nicosia, on the 12th of July 1958. On that day some 50 to 150 Turks armed with firearms, clubs, knives and iron bars attacked 35 unarmed Greeks killing 8 of them. The British established a "Commission of Inquiry into the Incidents at Geunyeli" which published its detailed report on the massacre later in the year. It found out that the Turks had slaughtered 4 men on the spot, 4 had died later in the hospital and 5 had been severely wounded. As the report observes "The attack was of the most savage nature and the injuries inflicted indicate an extraordinary bloodthirst".

Last not least , it is worth stressing who stood behind all of those lies about imaginary numbers of Turkish victims and caused the real Greek victims of Turkish bestiality and barbarity. The discussion in the House of Commons from 17 June 1958 reveals:

" Mr. F. Noel-Baker asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what steps the Government of Cyprus will take to prevent the incitement to murder and civil war of the Turkish Cypriot population by means of radio broadcasts and newspapers from Turkey.

Lennox-Boyd Her Majesty's Government have made the strongest representations to the Turkish Government about the tone and content of recent broadcasts and newspaper articles "

> Now consider the fact that the same Turkish harems that you hate so much since they according to you were full of Christian girls , those same harems ensured that a majority of Ottoman Sultans as well as aristocratic families ended up with Greek , Russian or European blood in their veins.<

Thanks for disclosing how much your contempt for women goes. You are denying them the basic right of being a free human being, of belonging to their families and nations instead of being a lawless slave in a harem of an Ottoman jihadist psychopath. That you deny them any right to choose whom to marry and what children to give birth to speaks also volumes. Those millions of wretched women abused, beaten broken and killed by Ottoman harems and their sick masters are the last thing such an Oriental "humanist" and a friend of kidnappers of children as you cares about , aren't they ?

Anyway, try to say to some Turks in their faces they are in fact Greek, Russian, Jewish, Polish or Georgian as far a their blood is concerned and I doubt you will physically survive your statement. Turks are rabid racists and keep lying that it is the Slavs, the Greeks and the Georgians or Armenians who are Turks and not vice versa.

Third, European blood and look of the Anatolian Turks hasn't changed anything in their barbarity at all. It has produced a bastard race that is perhaps more malicious and perfidious than the original Mongoloid race they come from as true Turkic and more peaceful types like the Uzbeks, the Kazakhs or Kyrgyz or today's Mongolians show. This fact of being bastards aggravates the Turkish personality split further and produces an effect that is observable in some dog breeds with mixed ancestry. It is how wherwolves and vampires are born.

> This is the way that is still today. Actually intermarraige with non-Muslim populations have been so widespread in the Turkish world that it is really difficult to trace the influence of Christianity on the development of Turkish culture.<

Are you sure you understand the meaning of the word "intermarriage" ??? Intermarriage means that having a population A and population B males from population A marry females from population B and females from population A marry males from population B. The Latin word "inter" stands for "between", "among".

Now having a Moslem population A and a kafiri population B what sort of intermarriage can take place if females from population A (Moslem) are punished with death if they marry males from population B unless the males from B don't become first members of population A by converting to Islam ? This situation is not called "intermarriage" at all, but demographic war or in the particular case demographic jihad. So why are you twisting words and why are you trying to fool me also on this account ? What agenda are you pursuing ?

> You must give me great acknowledgement to Ottoman Caliphate for creating the system of Janisari whereby meritorius Christians after embracing of Islam could serve as much as to be the Grand Viziers as well as top Generals and advisors of the Caliph.

"Devshirme" means "blood tax" and kidnapping Christian kids to make of them fanatical haters of their parents and ancestors may give a "great acknowledgement" only to such a perverted mind and crook like you. What merit is it when small children are stolen from their mothers and fathers, uprooted, isolated, chained, jailed and trained to be professional killing machines for Islam ?

Imagine also that those meritorious Christian boys had made splendid careers in their home lands before the Turkish animals came to enslave them and afterwards when the Turkish animals were expelled from their homes. They produced such heroes as Miloš Obilić who single-handedly killed sultan Murad I in the battle of Kosovo Polje or those heroic figures from whose skulls the Turks used to build towers. But how can a Moslem apologist appreciate such obvious things as the value of freedom and love for one's great non-Moslem history and culture ? Humanism or deeper understanding is none of your strong sides , I am afraid .

> Now tell me what opportunity did Rome or Greek empires of antiquity provided to their conquered peoples ?<

Good topic for a PhD dissertation , isn't it ? Out of seven kings of Rome five were not Romans ( Numa Pompilius,the Sabine, his grandson Ancus Martius, Tarquinius Priscus and Tarquinius Superbus the Etruscans and Servius Tullius, a slave at the Tarquini court).Do you know any Ottoman sultan who was a slave ? The first Roman poets and historians were not Roman at all, Philip the Arab or Maximinus the Thracian and Constantine I the British of humble origin were exactly what their nicknames imply just as Justinian whose Hagia Sophia the Turks have kept desecrated to this day was an Illyrian peasant and such Roman generals as Aetius , Stylicho or Arbogast were Germanic ... All this without devshirme , shariah and forced Islamization. Incredible for a Moslem troglodyte, isn't it?

> What opportunity does current Italian or Greek republics provide to their Muslim minorities ?<

The opportunity they are looking for and choose themselves - to become criminals , heroin dealers , gansters and jihadists and parasites. What else are Moslems used to doing in their homelands they want to transplant and copy in the West ? They don't come here to integrate with us kafirs but to enslave us once again and subjugate us to their sickening death cult called Islam.

> The important thing is that you only project the bad side of the Ottoman caliphate but you are blind to its virtues which far outweigh their mistakes.<

Just let me note that so far you have named not a single "virtue" of the Ottoman Caliphate while blaming the Jews, the Greeks, the Italians for opposing and disliking the deep regress that Moslems are bringing wherever they pop up, whatever land they conquer and Islamize. Second , you haven't named a single "mistake" of the said Ottoman Caliphate so that I am still in the dark what you mean if you mean anything verifiable and meaningful at all.

> You must accept that the Janisari system did improve a lot the conditions of Chrisitans in the Ottoman caliphate.<

It is up to you to prove how kidnappings , beatings and terrorizing children, traumatizing them for life and pitting them against their real parents and families through Islam so as to diminish the number of Christians improved the "conditions" of the said Christians ! I am not sure if you realize the magnitude of nonsense and your ignorance and barbaric mindset by writing about obvious regress and crimes as "improvements" of the victims' lot ! Even for me your magical thinking and semantic twisting are something I don't come across so often.

> Can you give one single example from those states like the Romans and Greeks which the Ottoman caliphate succeeded to create a great system like that of Janisari ?<

To see what kind of "great system " it was, let me quote a passage from an interesting monument of the late 15th -early 16th Polish literature. It is "A Turkish chronicle or recollections of a janissary" written by Constantine of Ostrovizte. He was born c. 1435 south-east of Kosovo. As a boy the Turks abducted him into slavery together with his two brothers near Novo Brdo. He was made a janissary and served both in Rumelia , Anatolia and on the Persian frontier for more than 8 years. In 1463 Mathew Korvin, King of Hungary , recaptured a small castle in Bosnia Zvechay thus liberating Constantine who returned to his Christian roots and later in Poland wrote a memorable book of recollections. He writes i.al. :

"In the said town Nove Bardo I was taken prisoner with my two friends and the Turks were given to drove us before them like cattle. And when they were driving us through forests and mountains we were thinking of ecaping them…and near one village –Samukov- we managed to run away , yet they searched for us and chased us across the country and finally caught us and bound us and tortured us. They dragged us bound by ropes to their horses and afterwards they made us swear we would not do it again and made us collectively responsible in case of escape of anyone of us… " Relating the conpiracy among despairing forcibly converted Christian Serbian servants against Mehmed II he notes :" Eight youngsters at his court decided to assassinate the sultan saying to each other "If we kill this Turkish dog, we will liberate the whole of Christianity and if they catch us, we will be martyrs in the eyes of our God." They were betrayed by one of the conspirators and the sultan asked them "Who was your ringleader? Who dared think of assassinating me?" And they answered "There is no other reason for our decision than your unspeakable cruelty and our great pity and compassion for our beloved fathers and friends". ( ' A Turkish Chronicle or Recollections of a janissary written between 1496-1501 by Constantine of Ostrovitze, Cracow 1912, p.80-81) I will spare you the description of sadistic tortures the boys were subjected to before they were executed and how their dead and mutilated bodies were collected by Constantine of Ostrovitze and buried in the dead of the night near a semi-deserted church. So torturing and terrorizing children to make them stop thinking of and loving freedom, caring for their beloved ones and lose their memory and identity to become perfect slaves of the Turk is "a great system" according to you, isn't it ? According to me it is a monstrosity and anyone who defends and praises this monstrosity is no less of a monstrosity himself..
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Reader comments (78) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
1Parallels between Israel/"Occupied Territories" vs Turkey/Northern Cyprus [73 words]Sigmund DermanJan 6, 2012 15:27192343
1You are so naive Sigmund Derman [59 words]PrashantJan 7, 2012 10:50192343
2Cyprus Need Firm US Backing [67 words]DaveDec 28, 2011 21:45192118
4Better be careful! [104 words]YovenOct 14, 2011 20:18190041
14Israel, Cyprus and Greece [366 words]jgetsOct 13, 2011 14:46190011
1Another suggession [182 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:12190011
15End of the Turkish anomaly [314 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 10:12190011
1My answer to Ianus [665 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 22:51190011
7Wrong history [364 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 08:42190011
6"Chechen civilization" - slave markets, beheadings and kidnappings [436 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 09:52190011
2Banerjee I can;t believe this guy. [32 words]KayT (India)Dec 30, 2011 03:24190011
I do not forget anything [114 words]Debanjan BanerjeeDec 31, 2011 03:43190011
Banerjee's wierd logic [35 words]PrashantJan 1, 2012 15:46190011
What will Russia's policy be? [90 words]Stuart FaginOct 13, 2011 08:26190006
5biased interests [83 words]AthinagorasOct 13, 2011 00:56190002
1Theatre like Cyprus [145 words]Jay1Oct 12, 2011 19:39189996
10USA's past romances [99 words]L. ManoharOct 12, 2011 04:11189985
1L Manohar's point to ponder. [63 words]PrashantOct 13, 2011 21:57189985
13Neither old nor romantic ! Turks buy love from the US through high-ranking govermental pimps [885 words]IanusOct 14, 2011 16:22189985
4Turks in Cyprus and the real reason for the Greek coup [198 words]George PhilipOct 11, 2011 16:22189975
2Turkish identity is a mixture of Turkic migrants and indigenous converts. [68 words]Jon OzOct 12, 2011 21:56189975
1Another potential match [134 words]Joe Six-PackOct 13, 2011 12:53189975
15How and what the Turkish community in Cyprus "developed". [1065 words]IanusOct 15, 2011 19:54189975
3Turks also did good things [344 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:36189975
5Debanjan's only purpose is to irritate others [58 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 01:49189975
2Genetics of the people of Turkey [239 words]Steven A. AdelmanOct 25, 2011 14:14189975
7Regress as a "good thing" and demographic war as "intermerriage" [2793 words]IanusOct 25, 2011 18:57189975
2If you want to refute me you can Josh [126 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 00:58189975
5My empire is better than yours - wrong [109 words]PeterOct 26, 2011 08:01189975
8No canine genes in Turkish DNA? [564 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 09:20189975
What you give is only drivel [813 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 31, 2011 06:36189975
5"These Christians are not even worth burial, let the dogs eat them." [1261 words]IanusOct 31, 2011 20:17189975
8OMG [57 words]Peter HallNov 2, 2011 00:40189975
3OMG you are really clutching at straws [40 words]Peter HallNov 2, 2011 01:05189975
My answer [108 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 2, 2011 23:30189975
Forced conversion [366 words]ProxenosNov 2, 2011 23:46189975
1My answers on Cyprus [511 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 2, 2011 23:59189975
5Oriental solipsism [436 words]IanusNov 3, 2011 19:24189975
2Ah, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing [97 words]Peter HallNov 3, 2011 23:47189975
8what a victim complex you have!! [226 words]Peter HallNov 4, 2011 00:08189975
1Another mistake in Islamists' argumentation [227 words]PrashantNov 5, 2011 11:23189975
6Debanjans bizarre universe [147 words]ShishirNov 5, 2011 16:54189975
4Debanjan says: I see your drivel and raise you a delusion! [324 words]ShishirNov 5, 2011 17:12189975
My reply to Shishir [388 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 08:39189975
My Answer to my fellow Bangla babu [176 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 08:55189975
Occidental exceptionalism [715 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:29189975
My answer to Mr. Hall [195 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:37189975
1My answer to Mr. Shishir [657 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 6, 2011 09:52189975
3Debanjan Banerjee I have told you there is no need to further demonstrate ... [814 words]Peter HallNov 6, 2011 20:26189975
3... Are you serious? [161 words]Peter HallNov 7, 2011 03:55189975
2Answer to Kurdish question [298 words]ShishirNov 7, 2011 12:17189975
5Oriental obscurantism at its best [1822 words]IanusNov 7, 2011 18:06189975
3Debanjan I think you are the blind one here [527 words]Peter HallNov 7, 2011 19:01189975
1Debanjan Banerjee's ideas about surplus Kurdish population [134 words]JoshNov 8, 2011 02:35189975
2Romans and Ottomans:Apples and Oranges [384 words]ShishirNov 8, 2011 16:43189975
Mr. Josh [94 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 8, 2011 20:21189975
Occidental exceptionalism at its best [596 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 9, 2011 02:15189975
1I rest my case after I make these two points [168 words]JoshNov 9, 2011 23:09189975
1Debanjan's true belief [38 words]JoshNov 9, 2011 23:25189975
4Debanjan Banerjee I have told you there is no need to further demonstrate ... [165 words]Peter HallNov 10, 2011 01:30189975
4Football jihad in France [792 words]IanusNov 17, 2011 09:27189975
Propagandas do not stand for truth [581 words]Debanjan BanerjeeNov 19, 2011 05:23189975
What a confused man you are! [54 words]Peter HallMay 24, 2012 07:05189975
rethinking ancient beliefs [22 words]akJan 14, 2013 23:56189975
muslim turk=muslim arab of middle east [39 words]akJan 15, 2013 00:03189975
Y-DNA Turkey Turks=Y-DNA Ancient&Modern Central Asian Turks [18 words]turktoresi.comJun 17, 2015 19:15189975
3Full-on alliance between Israel and Cyprus, a gift from Heaven? [74 words]Carmen WaggonerOct 11, 2011 16:21189974
There is a very good use of Cyprus [96 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 24, 2011 14:23189974
2Idea for India [31 words]JoshOct 25, 2011 01:53189974
5And even better use for Turkey ! [140 words]IanusOct 26, 2011 09:41189974
1On the contrary [120 words]Debanjan BanerjeeOct 26, 2011 22:59189974
7Wrong resettlers [181 words]IanusOct 28, 2011 08:09189974
TURKEY, A LITLE COUNTRY ISLAND [52 words]JACQUES HADIDAOct 11, 2011 13:52189970
Obama and Clinton Cannot Play That Role [43 words]jdOct 11, 2011 13:11189967
Another thought [31 words]Peter HerzOct 12, 2011 21:43189967
Money Makes the World Go Round [24 words]Barry BlackOct 11, 2011 11:22189965
2Cyprus on the World Stage [37 words]Nenette GrunbergOct 11, 2011 10:54189964
The return [17 words]MikeOct 8, 2014 16:50189964

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