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Honourable Tariq's Explanation Too Complicated for Infidel to Understand

Reader comment on item: What Jewish Ties to Jerusalem?
in response to reader comment: Honourable Tariq's Explanation Leaves Infidel With Headache

Submitted by tariq (Pakistan), Aug 5, 2006 at 03:39

"Thank you for your response. You state that I'm "one of those ppl who have been fed so many lies, distortions, and fake testimonies"."

i said APPARENTLY u are one of those ppl...

Until 9/11/01, I knew nothing about Islam. After 9/11/01, I ordered a copy of the Qur'an, determined to learn about Islam by reading Muslim books and not listening to other people's opinions. After reading my first copy, I was shocked at the content, so I ordered another Qur'an by another author from a Muslim Society that was advertising free Qur'an.

You still dont know anything about the religion of peace(islam). u say u were shocked at the content. wot exactly shocked u? and whose translation were u reading? and which muslim society is this?

"After reading the second Qur'an, I downloaded a copy of the Qur'an from the Internet, in fact, I ordered it from a Muslim website, and I read it as well."

u dont order a quran online, its available for free. also which translations have u been reading? the one u refered to in the previous comment was by, i think palmer or rodwell.

"I also downloaded the Sunnah from a Muslim website and read all 93 chapters. Even that was not enough,"

all 93 chapters? wot chapters? wot is this that u are reading? from where did u download it? there are no 93 chapters in sahih bukhari or muslim.

"for I purchased and read over six different books about Islam, including, "Why I Am Not a Muslim", by Ibn Warraq. You probably heard about Warraq, he was raised as a Muslim, became a professor in the US and now has written several books about Islam."

u are a typical kafir then. u have been fed, lies distortions and fake testimonies by kafirs like ibn warraq. the kafir logic never ceases to amaze me. when u want to learn something about islam, u look wot the kafirs say. wen u want to learn christianity, u read books written by christians. y the double standards? enemies of islam like warraq abdussaleeb and craig winn do nothing but lie, distort and quote out of context to make the religion of peace look bad. and 'intelligent' people read their books and consider themselves scholars of islam. how about looking at wot MUSLIMS have to say? how about seeing OUR side of the story? o i forgot, muslims are always wrong.

"Nobody has fed me anything, including lies, distortions, and fake testimonies. Everything I know about Islam, I learned by reading."

reading ibn warraq. read books by muslim authors. or read books against christianity. dont be a hypocrite.

this is wot kuffar do: they read book on islam written by its enemies, and read books on christianity written by its apologists.

u read warraq, a former muslims. so if u are not a hypocrite, but a christian, read the book MIsquoting Jesus writen by Bart D. Ehrman a former christian SCHOLAR unlike warraq, who was not even 1% of a scholar.

Bart was an Evangelical christian who became agnostic after reading the Greek manuscripts upon which the translations of the bible are based. he found it to be tampered by the christian church. another book he wrote is The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament. so read them, and know that the bibles are corrupted.

"Now I will address some of your points."

some not all

"Isaiah wrote that, 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth. Nothing in the Bible indicates that anyone would have thought that the earth was like a CD, thus your reference is rather foolish."

"In them [the heavens], a tent is fixed for the sun, who comes out like a bridegroom from his wedding canopy, rejoicing like a strong man to run his race. His rising is at one end of the heavens, his circuit touches their farthest ends; and nothing is hidden from his heat (Psalm 19:4-6)."

it says NOTHING is hidden from its heat. that is only possible if the earth is flat. on the round earth the half almost half of the area of earth will have darkness.

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them;(mathew 4:8)

all the kingdoms? how can u see the kingdoms at the other side of the planet?

So the bible teaches that the earth is flat and round like a disc. no wonder the church persecuted galileo or whatever his name.

"Why don't we consider Muhammad's(PBUH) description: Hazrat Abdullah Muslem asked Muhammad(PBUH): "Ya Rasul Allah! Please tell us, on what does this vast earth stand?" Muhammad(PBUH) replied: "Allah has placed this seven-layered, huge earth on the horn of a cow. This cow has four thousand such horns, and the distance from one horn to another is a journey of five hundred years. This gigantic cow is standing on the back of a giant fish. This fish is floating on glutinous water; the depth of this water is the distance of a journey of forty years. The glutinous water is resting on floating air. This air or atmosphere is resting on darkness. The darkness rests upon the Hell and that Hell is placed on a massive stone. This massive stone is resting on the head of an enormous Farishta (angel); the Farishta is standing on wind and the wind is resting on the empty world of Allah's Kudrat (glory)."

Point number 1:

you have yet to respond to these verses:

Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? (Deuteronomy 11:30)

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Revelation 12:1)

Point number 2:

u didnt refute my argument. i proved to u that the Quran does not say that the sun goes down in water. i explained it to u in detail bit by bit. i even quoted the tafsiir. u have yet to respond to my arguments. i say the arabic dont make the error, in response u give me a HADITH.

the quran does not say that the sun goes down in murky water, heres my previous explanation. this time i will highlight the important parts:

if the earth was flat, then the sun would be 'under' the earth. and their would be no sunrise for quite sometime. in that case the Quran would have to see that dhulqarnain waited for sometime for the sun to come up. it wouldnt see he TRAVELLED. this implies that the 'setting of the sun' is ACTUALLY A PLACE and not JUST TIME. indeed another meaning of the word maghrib(the arabic word used in this verse) is west.

but ofcourse this also means that the quran speaks of the time of sunset as well. the word translated as 'reached' is balagha

heres another usage of this word:

Then, when (the son) reached (balagha) (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!" (37:102)

tell me, how many steps do u take to become 10 years older?

when it says 'he reached' it denotes time, and 'the setting of the sun' is a western place that he reached.

now this leaves me with one problem; "he found it set in a spring of murky water"

And heres the solution:

notice that it says he found it. in english this gives the false impression that dhulqarnain really found the sun in the water. but in arabic, it show his point of view.

it tells us what HE saw. strange isnt it that God should tell us an event of history, and suddently change its tone to tell us wot the other person saw and not wot happened. notice that the quran tells us of an event as if it is an observer, but wen it comes to sun set, suddenly tells us wot dhulqarnain saw, and not wot happened.(according to M Asad, a well known scholar on islam, 'he found' can also be translated as he saw, or it appeared to him)

point number 3:

u are now quoting a hadith not Quran. the Quran is perfect. no such errors. but the hadith are not 100% perfect. many have been tempered with just like the bible. so these errors are bound to be occur..

i challenge to find such mistakes in the Quran

"You asked me the following question, is it possible? can u see a sunset and at the same time see a sunrise at a different place on a flat earth? My answer is yes, provided that the seven-layered, huge earth is on the horn of a cow, according to Muhammad(PBUH). "

on a flat earth u cant as the sun would be under the earth. also u did not cite the hadith source. where did u get it from? sahih bukhari? Muslims? sunan abu daud?

"In closing I would like to commend you for being able to take an Aya stating that the sun sets in a "spring of murky water" or a "miry fount" and interpreting it to mean that the sun circles the earth which is also incorrect as the revolving earth causes the sun rise and sun set."

wen did i say that the sun circles the earth? plz read my previous comments again. i said it APPEARS TO HIM didnt u read my comments?

Instead of responding to Infidel's difficult questions by twisting and stretching meanings for Ayas, just tell us, "we are taking it out of context", as no one can argue against that.

twisting the meaning? wheres ur proof? u say i twist meanings therefore i twist meaning. is that ur proof?


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