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The Two Wintesses

Reader comment on item: How Church Attendance Affects American Attitudes toward Israel
in response to reader comment: Christians and the Best Expressions for Judaism

Submitted by Michael S. (United States), Sep 22, 2014 at 11:56

Hi, Tovey

I enjoyed reading about your ancestry. Sometimes, in talking with a few outspoken Jews on the net, I get the impression that they think being Jewish endows them with some sort of innate spirituality; and I ws even described once as a "Jewish wannabe", as though that were something to strive for. Indeed, I do have SOME Jewish ancestry, which I am not ashamed of; and have relatives of note: mayors, professors, a soldier in the Palmach; and a famous actor -- all bearers of a unique family name that didn't exist until around 1800.

I don't look upon this as a cause for particular boasting, though: The Jews are important to the world, primarily because their history is the history of a people with a living national relationship with God. In this, the American people also have an important story to tell: a story of men and women laying down their lives to allow the distribution and understanding of God's word into the entire world. I count in my line Elder William Brewster: though never a clergyman, yet he kept together a congregation of the faithful from Scrooby to Leiden to Plymouth Bay. He composed the Mayflower Charter, and saw the brethren through a hard winter when half of them died, without benefit of either a governor or a minister. Those people came here not for financial gain, as millions do today; but simply for the privilege of worshipping God together in a way they felt He wanted us to do. Should someone with such a heritage "wannabe" part of a people who rebelled against God at every turn in the wilderness? I dare say, "not"; though I am descended from them as well.

Angels (messengers), seraphim, cherubim, etc.: The first have appeared to men; the latter have only been seen in the spirit realm. That realm is a curious place: A powerful dragon in that realm is invisible on earth, living only in the hearts and minds of men. The same goes for Michael the Archangerl, who doesn't acoompany the people of God, but actually seems to embody them:

Rev. 12:
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

In the spirit realm, then, we see Michael, who is invisible on earth; but on earth we see the brethren, who are invisible in heaven; yet they are both described as performing identically the same act against the same entity. Likewise, people on earth are continually concerned about things that will not even appear in heaven; yet the earth and our connection to it will vanish soon and quickly; but our lives in the spirit realm will go on forever! I believe this theme was central to Yeshua's teaching.

Next, the nexus of Judaism and Christianity is historical, objections of observant orthodox Jewish scholarship notwithstanding

Indeed.

And the two witnesses; I have had differing expressions of who they are; but it came down to this. Let it be sufficient to make scriptural notice on there being only two individuals who have yet to fall under the imperative of all dying once for the eternal record and being brought before the Eternal Father for their rewards. (Gen 5:24, II Kings 2:11)

Rev 12:
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
[4] These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

This seems to me an obvious reference to:

Zech 4:
[11] Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
[12] And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
[13] And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
[14] Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.

This is another example of the spiritual vs. natural reality: In heaven there are two entities, namely, olive trees (as with Michael and the Dragon in the previous example); on earth, there are also two entities: They are called anointed ones; yet the imagery suggests that they are also providers of the anointing oil to the great congregation. Revelation also describes them as the menorahs ("candlesticks") themselves; and you know what one of those menorahs looks like: It consists of Asia (the Roman province), the base, connecting the seven lamps in Rev. 1:12 -- in brief, the testimony to the Church. The other menorah is in heaven also, its COPY being that in the former Temple, this one representing the testimony to the Jewish people.

It is through these two peoples, that God has given testimony of His power and authority. Some notable miracles of the Jewish "witness" were the defeat of the Arabs in 1948 and 1967. Zech. 14 refers to the great "plague" of what will certainly be a nuclear exchange. That will be the embodiment of was prophesied in that chapter: the "fire" that will certainly be felt, issuing forth from the words out of the mouths of both Christians and Jews. There are, of course, lots of speculations about these things; but what I lay forth here is not a speculation: It is (what seems to me) a clear statement of what has happened in the past, and what will surely come to pass within the next few years.

Shalom shalom :-)

Submitting....

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