69 million page views

Teaching poorly educated Turks and the fate of the library of Alexandria revisited

Reader comment on item: Turkey, Closest to Leading the Middle East
in response to reader comment: Byzantine Logics

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Feb 6, 2013 at 09:21

You see our dear Mozere you wrote that this is what Gibbon wrote right our dear Mozere whose ancestors the Greeks and the Armenian and the Syrians were brutalized by his masters the Turkeys that came from central Asia

how the christians went on to demolishing pagan buildings and libraries,ideas of critical thinking to expunge any vestiges of Greek culture of antiquity,Platos Acedemy was closed down by Justinian.Early christians were no Cof E tea part

And so did Muslims on a grand scale or so we are told

Let me get you to read one more time my posts on the library of Alexandria and the library of Ctesiphon where we are told by your masters the Arabs that these libraries were destroyed by the Arab invaders and the one who ordered it was Omar Ibn al-Khatab right our dear Mozere the propagandist?

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/196257

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jun 12, 2012 at 12:23

Hi GIK

I can almost write a book about Muslim historians and their blatant fraud and lies and the fate of the library of Alexandria

Oh scottindallas he is here to do his little bogus da3wa but he does not know anything about what really happened

"...Look, you're simply wrong. ..... The Christians destroyed the Great Library at Alexandria, "

This is typical tablighhe bogus thinking headlines but no substance

A world first discovery then! So after all this time, it wasn't Julius Caesar

You are correct and for those of you not familiar with Alexandria in late antiquity the so called Mother Library was located in the Brochion distirct of the city which was located in the seaside area between the great harbor and the Jewish district of the city not far from the Agora and the Via Canopica and this great library was the buildings and the books and we know that the buildings were destoyed in the fighting where indeed Julius Caesar was involved and this was about 42BCE and there was no Christianity as of yet

Now what happened to the books? we really do not know but I suspect that with Hellenism such a great force at the time that many of these books have survived the destruction and with the great dry climate of Egypt papyri can last for ever and indeed we do have many copies of books (mostly fragments) that were located in the digs at Oxyrhnchus in Upper Egypthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyrhynchus_Papyri

So far scottindallas' claim is bogus

The smaller library was located in the complex of the Serapeumhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapeum and Serapis was a hybrid God of the Bull God Apis and the great Egyptian God Osiris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis

Now around 391CE a Christian mob attacked and destroyed the huge temple of Serapis and in the process they sustained massive destruction to the compound and the reason is that the teachings of the fathers of the Christian Church in Alexandria were anti-Pagan not unlike Islam and I'm sure that the God of islam would have been happy to see his followers destroying a pagan temple right our dear scottindallas if you are reading this?

Now we know what happened to the building and indeed if you visit Alexandria and not very far from the area called Mehatat al-Raml which is the downtown district you will find the Greco-Roman Museum and the ruins of the Serapeum which was located in the Rakoti district (rakoti is the Egyptian name of Alexandria and in the late antique period it was where native Egyptians lived)

So we know what happened to the buildings

How about the books? There is no doubt that not just pagans but Jews and Christians (see Haas' Alexandria in late antiquity) were able to unite in one area and that is their appreciation of Greek learning and indeed many of these books survived and many of them ended in Constantinole and even in Baghdad and we know that in the 8th and 9th century Nestorians in baghdad were translating complete texts of Greek work (eg: Ptolemy which Allah seems to have read and his geocentric cosmology) from Greek to Syriac then to Arabic and the Greek and Coptic sources tell us that these books were not even in the library at the time of the attack in 391CE and they were sent to Constantinople by George of Cappadocia some 30 years before the attack

And to add insult to injury those Nestorians the likes of Hunien Ibn Ishaq Arabized many of these Greek words that did not exist in Arabic the likes of tuhal and safra and balgham and in the process changed the Arabic language

or Caliph Omar or anybody else - it was 'the Christians' . Believe it , ScottinDallas tells us so.

Now enter the bogus islamic historical tradition (and if Ianus is reading this this as per Noth this is another motif) so we are told by Ibn Abd al-Hakam and by abu al-Faraj and later on by al-maqrizi "great" and revered Arab historians and I quote:

there was a man who won high renown among muslims named John the grammarian (read this as John Philoponous) he was an alexandrian and apparently had been a coptic priest but was deprived of his office owing to some heresy by a council of bishops held at Babylon (this is the fortress that is the site of the old city of Masr which is located in the now area of Old Cairo) he lived to see the capture of Alexandria by the arabs and made acquaintance of Amr whose clear and active mind was no less astonished than delighted with John's intellectual acuteness and great learing embolded by Amr's favor John one day remarked you have examined the whole city and you have set your seal on every kind of valiable i make no claim for anything that is useful to you but things useless to you may be of service to us"

Sounds interesting so far but the problem is this all bogus because John Philoponus was long dead before the Arab invasion of Egypt

Oh there is more

now we go back to the little bogus conversation between a man that was already dead by 642CE and Amr ibn al-As the invader of Egypt

"what are you thinking of" said Amr "the books of wisdom" said John "which are in the imperial treasuries"

So notice that John who was long dead is telling Amr ibn al-As that the books were seized by the Muslim invaders of Egypt

What a disaster so are you reading this our dear scottindallas al-tablighee?

Oh it gets better:

that replied Amr is a matter on which i can give no order without the authority of the caliph

Oh darn it here comes Omar ibn al-Khatab so back to this little chat

"a letter accordingly was written putting the question to Omar who answered

Oh this is a gem

touching the books you mention if what is written in them agrees with the book of Allah they are not required if it disagrees they are not desired

and here it comes

THEN DESTROY THEM (THE BOOKS)

So it seems that your islamic sources our dear scottindallas tells us that it was Omar ibn al-Khatab aka Omar al-Farooq is the one who ordered the destruction of these books

Oh there is more then we are told

"Amr accordingly ordered the books to be disributed among the baths (oh i forgot our dear scottindallas tells us that Muslims invented the baths!) of Alexandria and used as fuel for heating"

What a disaster

Oh and the fraud goes on this same story appears in the history of the destruction of the great Zoroastrain libraries

So should we kuffar believe Muslim histotians our dear scottindallas or not/

But the funny thing is it was kuffar Christian historians that proved that this story was fraud

But again we are dealing with the biggest literary fraud in the history of mankind and that is the Islamic historical tradition

What next in the muslim rewriting of the history of people's and lands subjugated by islamic marauders or the wonders of islamic science - maybe genetic modification of horses to enable them to fly and have peacock feathered tails?

I agree with you

Now do i think that scottindallas will get it? Not really

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/196260

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jun 12, 2012 at 14:48

Our dear scottindallas wrote this little gem not realizing that some of us kuffar read the books of the Islamic historical tradition

But, Muslims didn't burn the world's great libraries,

Oh so did you get the chance to read my post to GIK about the bogus claim by the Muslim historians that it was Amr Ibn al-As as orders from no other than Omar ibn al-Khatab is the one who burnt the library of Alexandria

So you tell us our dear scottindallas al-tablighee were the Muslim historians were a bunch of liars or were they islamophobes?

Now here is the sordid story that was also transmitted by Muslim historians about the great Zoroastrian library in Ctesiphon with the usual suspect Omar al-Farooq aka Omar ibn al-Khatab

When the Persian capital of Ctesiphon in province of Khvârvarân (today known as Iraq) fell to the Muslims during the Islamic conquest of Persia in 637 under the military command of Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas during the caliphate of Umar, the palaces and their archives were burned. According to an account in Tarikh al-Tabari by Al-Tabari, the Arab CommanderSa'ad ibn Abi Waqqas wrote to Caliph Umar ibn al-Khatta-b asking what should be done with the books at Ctesiphon.

So the source here is no other than al-Tabari right O glorious madrassa graduate?

So was al-Tabari a liar too? or may be he was an Islamophobe too?

Well let us read more

Umar wrote back: "If the books contradict the Qur'an, they are blasphemous. On the other hand, if they are in agreement, they are not needed, as for us Qur'an is sufficient."[33]

What a disaster

Oh there is more

Thus, the huge library was destroyed and the books, the product of the generations of Persian scientists and scholars were thrown into fire or the Euphrates.[34]

These are your islamic sources so was al-Tabari a liar or was he an islamophobe too?

For those of you that read Noth brutal examination of the Islamic historical tradition this is another example of the same motif that was used in the case of the claim by Muslim historians that it was Amr ibn al-As as per orders from Omar ibn al-Khatab what ordered the burning of the library of Alexandria

For those of you that want to read about the persecution of the Zoroastrains by Allah's minions checkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians

Now how come you did not know that our dear scottindallas al-tablighee? were you hoping that we kuffar do not know or were you really unaware but in this case it means that you are posting drivel

So which one is it our dear scottindallas you tell us

The moral of the story is it is either the islamic historical tradition is the biggest literary fraud in the history of mankind or Muslims indeed burnt both library of Alexandria and that of Cteisphon

So which one is it our dear scottindallas?

So we are told by your Muslim historians that it was Omar Ibn al-Khatab that ordered the destruction of both libraries and the burning of the books right our dear Mozere? so were Muslim historians correct or were they a bunch of liars? you tell us and if so why should we believe anything in the Islamic historical tradition you tell me

But it was kuffar scholars from the west that proved that this was all bogus history and indeed if such libraries did exist at the time of the Arab invasion they would have been indeed destroyed and their books would also have been burnt and I will give the example of the daughter library which was located in the Rakoti section of the city and was part of the Temple of Serapis! The God of Alexandria and indeed Christians destroyed the buildings and the statue of Separpis! And I'm sure that you would agree with me that if Muslims had the chance they would have done the same as Allah does not like idols right our dear Mozere the hypocrite?

But this is not the end of it because Greek learing and the books in Alexandria never went away after the destruction of the Serapis complex in 391CE and indeed as I told you Olympiodorous who died in 570CE or almost 180 years after the destruction of the Serapis complex and some 70 years before the Arab invasion of Egypt he was writing commentaries on the Greek works and it is clear that his "Alexandria Academy" library was well stocked with the books of the Greek learning! So you tell us what happened to the building where the Alexandria Academy was located and what happend to the books any guesses our dear Mozere? Hint: they must have been destroyed by your Arab masters

So I do believe that the tradition that tells us that your masters the Muslims destroyed a library in Alexandria that this very well could be the Alexandria Academy now do you get it?

But the real death blow to Greek learing in Egypt was for sure the Arab invasion of Egypt because Arabic replaced Greek as the language of communication in Egypt and there was no need any longer for scribes that knew Greek language and which means that there was no demand for Greek books as there were no readers that knew their Greek so the books were not copied any longer by scribes and with the decline of Alexandrian trade the wealthy class in Alexandria that bought such books had no money or reason to buy such books and that was indeed the reason for the destruction of classical learning and civilization and we can only blame the Arabs

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Teaching poorly educated Turks and the fate of the library of Alexandria revisited by dhimmi no more

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2022 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)