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Reader comment on item: Foreword: Why Islam's Reformers are Vitally Important
in response to reader comment: Ironically speaking...

Submitted by ECAW (United Kingdom), Jul 20, 2017 at 09:47

1 I take "ironic" in this sense to mean coincidental in an unexpected or incongruous way. It is coincidental that some counterjihad people share the same view of Islam as the people called Islamists but I see nothing unexpected or incongruous about it, in the same way that I see nothing unexpected or incongruous in firefighters and arsonists sharing the same view on the danger of fire. I think the jihadis and the "Islamists" have it pretty much right about the example of Mohammed and the demands of Allah, and I therefore find their actions quite expected.

2. Islamic interpretations have indeed changed over time but I maintain only over superficial elements. Will the five pillars ever disappear from Islamic orthodoxy, or the belief that the Koran was Allah speaking or that Mohammed was the last of the prophets? I don't think so but I couldn't care less about any of those things, only whether Islam is inherently and unavoidably supremacist regarding the rest of us. I think it is, to the point that if supremacism was abandoned then Islam would crumble since Allah cannot be seen to settle for anything less than total control.

As for the theology, it seems to me that the greatest scholars have already produced a distillation of Islam in the manuals of the various schools of jurisprudence so we can reliably refer to them. For instance, on the subject of supremacism, section O.8.7 (20) of the Reliance of the Traveller says it is apostasy "to deny that Allah intended the Prophet's message to be the religion followed by the entire world".

I have the impression that Islamic orthodoxy became more or less preserved in aspic thereafter. Muslims have told me "Oh that's just a mediaeval textbook" but al-Azhar certified it as "conforming to the faith and practice of the orthodox Sunni Community" ie "conforming" - present tense. If you know of an authoritative update to it with the horrors genuinely discarded I would be grateful to learn of it because I cannot find one, only slippery evasions.


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Reader comments (45) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Muhammad was/is Islam and the Quran ... how do you erase his terrible history? [71 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
KirbyAug 5, 2017 20:36240375
Scriptures are not malleable ... [219 words]KirbyAug 6, 2017 13:14240375
2Response to Daniel Pipes [189 words]AnonAug 7, 2017 21:45240375
Scriptures are not malleable ... [153 words]KirbyAug 9, 2017 21:12240375
Too late [98 words]CaraxJul 31, 2017 05:10240301
1How does this sort of thing read in... [66 words]Peter HerzJul 28, 2017 19:23240277
Nonie Darwish [29 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
GWKJul 21, 2017 13:34240143
Next time an ignoramous on the Right or Left tells you about all Muslims [240 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
PezDispenserJul 21, 2017 09:01240138
1All religions, ideologies, etc. sport the odd dissidents, but have little effect on the mainstream ... [158 words]KirbyAug 10, 2017 01:07240138
Semantics, Reform, Apostasy [360 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David GJul 20, 2017 11:50240122
5Reforming Islam? Mission impossible [667 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Carl GoldbergJul 18, 2017 17:41240094
1Islamism vs. Islam [14 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Steve KirbyJul 20, 2017 12:32240094
2Islamism versus Islam [159 words]Carl GoldbergJul 20, 2017 12:50240094
Essentialism [83 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
ECAWJul 21, 2017 00:40240094
1defeating Islam .. [84 words]Anne JulienneJul 23, 2017 06:45240094
I agree one hundred percent with Carl Goldberg [90 words]marlanJul 24, 2017 06:19240094
Erdogan and Surah 5:3 [278 words]DavidJul 31, 2017 19:02240094
Answer to David (Russia) [420 words]Carl GoldbergAug 2, 2017 01:03240094
Modern Islam - ? Ain't gonna fly. [175 words]KirbyAug 5, 2017 21:11240094
There is only one Islam [59 words]dhimmi no moreAug 6, 2017 07:34240094
1Who is the real Muslim? [161 words]dhimmi no moreAug 6, 2017 08:34240094
A modern Islam [188 words]PrashantAug 6, 2017 22:57240094
1The onus of identifying Islamists must fall on no one else but Muslims. [246 words]PrashantAug 6, 2017 23:27240094
1Muhammad is the Quran and Islam negating possibilty of change ... [123 words]KirbyAug 9, 2017 21:23240094
... the standard; Crusaders not "Christian" ... [134 words]KirbyAug 9, 2017 21:41240094
2Two considerations [312 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David GJul 18, 2017 12:35240091
Should they give up? [39 words]Carl GoldbergJul 20, 2017 12:31240091
1The answer? [56 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jeffrey SheffJul 18, 2017 10:29240090
An alternative version of Islam??? [18 words]Carl GoldbergJul 20, 2017 12:41240090
1why islam needs to be reform? [18 words]yigal gurevitchJul 18, 2017 09:57240089
2Islamists hypocrisy [75 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Abdel Rahman JamilJul 18, 2017 09:28240088
Metal detectors on the Temple Mount and in Mecca [72 words]Carl GoldbergJul 20, 2017 12:38240088
Islam can be reformed [314 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
dhimmi no moreJul 18, 2017 07:41240086
Why Islams reformers are vitally important [290 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MustaphaJul 18, 2017 05:37240083
Not quite fair! [125 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Barry BoyerJul 18, 2017 04:16240080
1Ironically speaking... [196 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
ECAWJul 18, 2017 01:48240077
2Reply to Daniel Pipes [343 words]ECAWJul 20, 2017 09:47240077
1Moderate Muslims are inconsequential [92 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Glen SpicerJul 18, 2017 00:58240076
an omission .. [26 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Anne JulienneJul 18, 2017 00:55240075
2In Reality, the Muslim Reform Movement is Irrelevant [37 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Stephen KirbyJul 17, 2017 12:35240061
1Deprecating, insulting and ignoring the Moslem reformers [66 words]Carl GoldbergJul 20, 2017 12:28240061
3Muslim "reformers" struggling [125 words]Steve KirbyJul 20, 2017 12:42240061
Consider [51 words]DavidJul 31, 2017 18:45240061
Muslim Modernizers [7 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Gary SackJul 17, 2017 12:24240060
Modernizing Imans ? [11 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jeff CarlsonJul 17, 2017 00:39240007

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