3 readers online now  |  69 million page views

Confession of the criminal is not needed to establish the authorship of a crime

Reader comment on item: Turkey's Last Free Election
in response to reader comment: You don't have any government documentation that proves Turks did genocide

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jul 2, 2011 at 11:01

sephardi wrote :

" Give me one single official document that proves that Turks did genocide to any nation especially to Armenians, do not give reference a book that claims Turks did genocide, show us any countries official documentation that proves Turks did genocide.<

Take a look at the extensive collection of official Imperial German documents concerning the extermination of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire

"Deutschland und Armenien , 1914-1918 Sammlung diplomatischer Aktenstücke ",Tempelverlag Potsdam 1919

Note the date 1919 (April). The book of 668 pages is freely available online. It contains dispatches, cables and reports of the German government officials(ambassadors, consuls, vice-consuls , envoys, military attaches, etc. ) to the German government : the Foreign Office, Reich Chancellary etc. It is worth noting also that this is a source from Turkey's closest wartime ally and friend so that it can hardly be suspected or accused of bias or hostility towards Turkey as might be the case of Entente sources.

Note furthermore that the confession of the perpetrator is in no legal system expected, needed or essential to establish the authorship of a crime.

And ,frankly, who in his senses can expect a confession of crimes coming from Turks whose notoriety for lying and denying is widely known ? Or perhaps can you as a Turk admit a single crime, a single genocide, a single massacre provoked and perpetrated by the Turks during their long criminal and barbarian history ?

Anyway, I'd like to adduce some quotations from the documents to demonstrate the grim reality Turks keep collectively denying :

German Imperial Viceconsul M. Kuckhoff in Samsun 5th July 1915

What is involved here is nothing less than EXTERMINATION or forced Islamisation of a whole nation. The way the deportation order is being carried out threatens to assume forms for which the only analogy is the persecution of Jews in Spain and Portugal...In the vicinity of Samsun all the villages have been Islamized nd the same is true of Unieh" (p.104-105)

[ Kaiserlich Deutsches Vizekonsulat Samsun M. Kuckhoff den 5. Juli 1915

"Es handelt sich um nichts weniger als um die VERNICHTUNG oder gewaltsame Islamisierung eines Volkes... Die Art der Ausführung des Verbannungsbefehls droht Formen anzunehmen, die nur in der Judenverfolgung Spaniens und Portugals ein Gleichnis finden...In der Umgebung von Samsun sind alle Dörfer muhammedanisiert worden, ebenso in Unieh..." p.104-105]

German Imperial Embassy Pera , February, 16 , 1917 Ambassador Richard von Kühlmann

The annihilation of the Armenians has been carried out on a large scale …as a global result this policy of extermination (Ausrottungspolitik) has done much harm to the Turkish state. The atrocities of the anti-Armenian campaign will stain for a long time to come the very name of Turkey and they will provide mighty arguments to those that deny Turkey any character of a civilized country. (p. 321)

[ Kaiserlich-Deutsche Botschaft Pera den 16. Februar 1917 Botschafter Richard von Kühlmann

Die im grossen Umfange durchgeführte Armeniervernichtung …als Gesamtergebnis hat die Ausrottungspolitik dem türkischen Staate schwer geschadet. Die Greuel des Armenierfeldzuges werden schon lange auf dem türkischen Namen lasten und noch lange denjenigen Waffen liefern , die der Türkei die Eigenschaft eines Kulturstaates absprechen …]

German Evangelical Missionary Aid Malatia 26.03. 1917

"The losses of the Armenian people since the deportations in the summer until now have exceeded one million. A part of them have been killed in prisons after horrifying tortures. Women and children perished mostly underway to their deporation destinations because of hunger, epidemics and murder" . p.353

[ Deutsche evangelische Missionshilfe Malatia Malatia den 26.Marz 1917

"Die Verluste des armenischen Volkes seit der Verschickung Sommer 1915 bis heute übersteigen eine Million. Ein Teil wurde in den Gefängnissen nach fürchterlichen Folterqualen getötet. Von Frauen und Kinder starben die meisten auf dem Wege in die Verbannung, an Hunger, Seuche und Mord" p.353]

"From the Black Sea to Syria the name of Christianity has been wiped out, their churches have been closed , their schools emptied, their priests and preachers killed or deported. Except for a few Levant cities all Anatolia has been Islamized. Christian names have been deleted in the registers and replaced with Mahommetan names." p. XXXVII

[Vom Schwarzen Meer bis nach Syrien ist der Christenname ausgelöscht, die Kirchen geschlossen ,die Schulen entleert, die Priester und Prediger getötet oder verschickt. Von einigen Levantestädten abgesehen ist ganz Anatolien Islamisiert worden. Die christlichen Namen sind in den Registern ausgelöscht und durch muhammedanische ersetzt" p. XXXVII ]

As you can see, the documents call the events they are describing with quite unambiguous terms "planmässige Vernichtung des armenischen Volkes" ('premeditated and methodical extermination of the Armenain nation") , "systematische Vernichtung der Deportierten", ("systematic annihiltion of the deportees"), "Armeniervernichtung" ("extermination of the Armenians" ) , "Ausrottungspolitik" , ("policy of extermination") or quite literally "die grosste Christenverfolgung aller Zeiten" ( "the biggest persecution of Christians of all times"). Incidentally, the places were Armenians were imprisoned and tormented are called "concentration camps" ="Konzentrationslager" .

> Anything you are saying is uneducated and can't be proven, you just blame based on nothing, ohh sorry you read to books which are 1. A crime of silence. The Armenians genocide Permanent Peoples' Tribunal. Preface by Prof Pierre Vidla-Naquet Published by Z books 1985<

This is what you definitely don't read nor have any idea of most documents on the subject. But being a Turk what can you know anyway? No Turkish library has these documents or makes them accessible to the Turkish public, no Turkish newspaper or TV channel ever mentions or discusses them, no quotations are allowed, dissent and skepticism are severely punished. For showing them you would be imprisoned for 3 years on charges of "denigrating Turkishness" (Article 301) , as you know better than me.In other words, you as a Turk are the last person on this planet to even raise the Armenian question", let alone tell us what really happened and what didn't , you Turkish lie machine !

> 2. Genocide by Leo Kuper who was a Jurist and he explains the UN definition of genocide and the case of the Armenian Genocide Yale Imiversity press 1981<

and this books proves that Turks did Genocide based on non official documentation, I can only laugh that.<

I am sure you have never read or wanted to read any serious book or document on the subject. And your Turkish laughter has something mixed in it. It's both diabolical and imbecile because I am also quite sure that if confronted you will never recognize any official documentation either and that your demand to submit you some is fraudulent and insincere from the very beginning. And you will deny the official German reports as you deny any other serious documents pertaining to the subject.

> You have to prove the genocide based on official government documentation.<

The book I mention does it and quite well and as early as April 1919 , i.e. long before the Kemalist phase of the genocide began with the Armenian-Kemalist war of 1920 and its horrors, with burning Amrenains alive in their churches in Smyrna, with the cleansing of Cilicia of the last Armenian villages. And again why do you demand something which you will a priori deny?

>Do you know U.S send it inspector to Ottoman o see and do evaluation what is happening during WW1. <

Do you know that the book mentioned has the following report from 12.08.1916 "from Washington we learned that the Turkish government has denied the US request to form a neutral committee of relief for Syria where thousands of inhabitants (Armenians) are dying of hunger" ? (Ibidem p. 287 )

> Do you know what is the result of evaluations, Turks are not killing Armenians, Actually Armenian terrorist groups are killing both Armenians and Turks.<

My question to you. If the massacres of the Armenians are allegedly related to their "terrorist activities", "uprisings", "killing Turks", "conspiring with the enemy" , then why didn't the Turks apply the same "Ausrottungspolitik" towards the Arabs for doing exacty the same crime , nay on even a much bigger and more dangerous scale? Or maybe you have never heard of the Arab terrorists of Emir Faisal spying, ambushing and killing Turkish soldiers in Arabia, conspiring with Turkey's mortal enemy, capturing one Ottoman province after another,taking foreign money and military instructors?

Anyway name the source! The fact is that American archives do tell a different story from your claims ,even though they confirm that the US government for a long time did its best to intentionally conceal the information it had on the Armenian genocide from the American public.

On February, 12th 1916 the Department of State sent a cable to the US embassy in Constantinople where it said

"Inform the Turkish government has received and is still receiving information …giving detailed accounts of the sufferings which have accompanied and resulted from the systematic expulsion of the Armenians from their homes and other mistreatments which thez have undergone.. The department at the present time is considering the question whether or not it I justified in longer withholding from the American people the facts now in its possession."

>I will repeat my self again show us one single government documentation that Turks did genocide.<

Inspect again carefully the official German documentation to have what you allegedly want .

> By the way Armenia was the first Country to recognize Republic of Turkey in the world.<

This not true. The first country to recognize Kemal's regime (no one knows what this rebellious Kemalist territory was constitutionally before October 29, 1923 ) was Soviet Russia that opened up its Embassy in Angora on November 7th 1920. It was for a long time the only foreign legation in Kemal-controlled territory.

Anyway, if by "recognition" you mean signing at the point of Turkish guns the treaty of Alexandroupolis with Armenia after numberless atrocities and massacres against the Armenians committed by the Kemalists, then first it happened later than the opening of teh Soviet Ambassy in Angora - on 2.12.1920.Second the Dashnak government that was forced to sign it had previously given up its power to the Soviet Russians and thus had no legal power to do what it did to end Kemalist atrocities on Armenian soil and thus it created no de jure or even de facto recognition of the Kemalist regime. And interestingly enough , on 4.12.1920 the Red Army occupied Erivan and one of the first things it did was to declare the above-mentioned treaty as null and void and Kemalists didn't protest at all. The final regulation of the Turkish-Soviet borders took place in Moscow in February and March 1921 resulting in the Soviet-Kemalist Treaty of Brotherhood and Friendship (16.03.1921) and later in the Treaty of Kars of 13.10.1921.

Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

<< Previous Comment      Next Comment >>

Reader comments (94) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Islam is the religion of the Arabs only [74 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
edmond michaelsDec 22, 2015 00:54227212
Kurdistan [72 words]David W. LincolnMay 25, 2015 20:35223517
1Blame Bush [70 words]DaveApr 24, 2014 16:03214605
Turkey [192 words]KatieJun 14, 2011 00:44186303
I hope you are wrong [14 words]Manny MatamorosJun 13, 2011 13:42186276
6Right to choose [41 words]AbuSaad KhanJun 13, 2011 12:45186274
2Regular elections? [80 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 11:50186274
2A democracy is a step in the right direction but not enough. [222 words]PrashantJun 21, 2011 00:11186274
5ME expert... [74 words]aozturkJun 13, 2011 10:04186265
6Also concerned [154 words]AnnJun 13, 2011 08:59186264
9Welcome to Turkey ? [723 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 18:16186264
2Why not look at the mirror [51 words]BazoonahJun 16, 2011 13:54186264
4Not a little story at all ! [282 words]IanusJun 18, 2011 04:26186264
2Armenian genocide [35 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 11:59186264
1an Addon [181 words]BazoonahJun 20, 2011 04:17186264
8Ask Allah.He knows best why Israel is so successful and Moslems such a failure, doesn't he ? [238 words]IanusJun 29, 2011 13:15186264
4Ignorance and Greed - Turkey's two eternal allies in the West [537 words]IanusJun 29, 2011 14:21186264
8Alert for Turksih propagandists: Our dear Naushad is saying that there was really an Armenian Genocide! [138 words]dhimmi no moreJun 30, 2011 05:55186264
The coming Islamic empire. [102 words]Naushad OmarJul 9, 2011 18:58186264
Arab Superiority? [105 words]Naushad OmarJul 9, 2011 19:04186264
3Dictatorship and Islamism go hand in hand [232 words]PrashantJul 10, 2011 18:20186264
6Islam is the religion of the arabs only [291 words]dhimmi no moreJul 12, 2011 07:39186264
2freedom was their right [28 words]Ravi Ranjan Singh Bharat PanthiJul 21, 2011 14:28186264
4Turkey IS gone from the western orbit, if it has ever really been a part of it to begin with.... [114 words]Adina Kutnicki, IsraelJun 13, 2011 06:12186262
10some respect to our choice [100 words]ahmetJun 14, 2011 02:28186262
1the freedom to leave islam [82 words]MikeJun 15, 2011 04:09186262
5Imam Edrogan's party [194 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 18:45186262
7Turkey is a 99,8% Islamic monoculture.Let's face it at last ! [305 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 20:01186262
3Islamic tolerance and christian love. [82 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 12:12186262
6What is really a Genocide as per UN and the crimes of Turkey and its bloody past [170 words]dhimmi no moreJun 18, 2011 16:38186262
5Do kafirs have a right to self-defence against Moslem aggression ? [552 words]IanusJun 19, 2011 18:51186262
3Another victim Arabian imperialism and of Islam [553 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2011 07:25186262
110% of the middle east is still Christian [126 words]PrashantJun 20, 2011 23:53186262
1Christian conversion in midlle east was incremental and slow. [118 words]Naushad OmarJun 22, 2011 12:49186262
2al-wali wa al-mawali and what a disgrace [76 words]dhimmi no moreJun 22, 2011 19:05186262
No blame [56 words]sephardiJun 24, 2011 19:19186262
1Islam, the beautiful religion [135 words]Naushad OmarJun 25, 2011 14:38186262
2Muslims killed 90 M hindus? True or false. [682 words]Naushad OmarJun 25, 2011 15:16186262
3Monotheism is a "much ado about nothing" [526 words]PrashantJun 26, 2011 00:43186262
2Another Turkish propagandist [194 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 05:31186262
2el-komidyya el-islamiyya goes on and on [679 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 06:49186262
1el-komidyya el-islamiyya goes on and on revisited [226 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 08:17186262
1990M Hindus were killed by muslims during jihad in India [1447 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 13:56186262
1Reponse to dhimmi no more [131 words]sephardiJun 26, 2011 22:00186262
2Hatred and prejudice only lead to bitterness and blindness [389 words]MehmetJun 27, 2011 21:03186262
4The Turkish crimes against humanity [717 words]dhimmi no moreJun 28, 2011 06:27186262
2Turkey and its crimes against humanity [634 words]dhimmi no moreJun 28, 2011 07:22186262
2individualized middle classes replacing monolithic ethnic blocks [317 words]MehmetJun 29, 2011 02:33186262
4The ugliness of Islam [119 words]IanusJun 29, 2011 13:38186262
You don't have any government documentation that proves Turks did genocide [217 words]sephardiJun 29, 2011 14:01186262
2we are all Armenians and get used to it [774 words]dhimmi no moreJun 29, 2011 18:00186262
6we are all Armenians and get used to it and the Armenian Genoicde and those that deny it and shame on them [732 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2011 05:57186262
You don't even know what makes something official for a government [168 words]sephardiJul 1, 2011 18:45186262
5Confession of the criminal is not needed to establish the authorship of a crime [1789 words]IanusJul 2, 2011 11:01186262
1Armenian Genocide does not exist [243 words]sephardiJul 2, 2011 19:54186262
2Poor Turks! They are so allergic to the truth. [453 words]IanusJul 5, 2011 02:20186262
3Our dear Sephardi has nothing to say and shame on anyone who denies the Armenian Genocide [725 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2011 08:04186262
5Jalal ad-Din Rumi on Turks [1116 words]IanusJul 6, 2011 14:44186262
Turks won't accept imaginary Armenian Genocide [139 words]sephardiJul 6, 2011 22:22186262
2Republic Of Turkey, MInistry Of Foreign Affairs: The Armenian Allegation Of Genocide The Issue And The Facts [3684 words]sephardiJul 7, 2011 23:31186262
2Our dear Sephardi is unable to refute the legal case against Turkey in regard to the Armenian Genocide. Shame on Turkey [809 words]dhimmi no moreJul 8, 2011 06:55186262
2Our dear Sephardi the Turkish Propagandist tells us that he has government documents! Where are they? Propaganda does not count [277 words]dhimmi no moreJul 9, 2011 06:04186262
Sephrdi - A Typical Genocide Denier [51 words]Young MCJul 10, 2011 19:23186262
1The Armenian Genocide and those that deny it! Shame on them! [694 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2011 07:16186262
5The barbarian and the civilized [188 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2011 13:43186262
Turkey's Predicament - How to Have a Future in Spite of Its Past [384 words]M. ToveyJul 29, 2011 18:19186262
Hijrath appeal will help to evacuate bad Muslims from India [387 words]Islamic AhimsaSep 11, 2011 00:45186262
Do you have any proof to support your claims? [26 words]AdilOct 20, 2014 14:38186262
4The Hindu Genocide revisited [514 words]dhimmi no moreOct 22, 2014 17:14186262
Real proof [55 words]AdilOct 25, 2014 15:12186262
And what about the Christian Imperialism in India [99 words]AdilOct 26, 2014 17:40186262
1Our dear Adil admits that millions of Hindus were murdered by the Muslim invaders of India! [476 words]dhimmi no moreOct 28, 2014 07:54186262
1Why do you live among kuffar our dear Adil and not in Saudi Arabia? Social benefits? No? [138 words]dhimmi no moreOct 28, 2014 17:31186262
1It is a spectrum Adil [159 words]PrashantOct 28, 2014 17:41186262
2My evidence that Islam is the religion of the Arabs only? For the nth time Q14:4 and 10:47 and 13:8 and 35:24 and 28:75 [482 words]dhimmi no moreOct 29, 2014 07:25186262
Where does it say in any history textbooks that 90,000,000 Hindus died because of Islam? [16 words]AdilOct 31, 2014 12:20186262
That is what I find bad.......... [28 words]AdilOct 31, 2014 12:22186262
2You still did not answer my question why do you live among Christian "imperialists"? [76 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2014 08:31186262
3The Hindu Genocide revisited again [52 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2014 08:35186262
1What of Turkey's Foreign Relations? [55 words]Peter HerzJun 13, 2011 05:42186261
1Expert Accountability [150 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
kzndrJun 12, 2011 22:38186257
Islamist Parties Abroad [109 words]Sir Daniel M. J. TobinJun 12, 2011 17:37186247
5Election results did not meet PM Erdoğan's expectations [32 words]somaJun 12, 2011 16:44186242
This is a wrongheaded analysis [117 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jeff H.Jun 12, 2011 14:02186235
11When was the first "fair and free election" in Turkey,I wonder ? [928 words]IanusJun 13, 2011 17:03186235
17Turkey the land of delusions [104 words]dhimmi no moreJun 14, 2011 06:57186235
1You seem to know what you are talking about but you dont have a clue actually [418 words]JohnJun 14, 2011 10:39186235
5Freedom of speech in Turkey would mean the end of Kemal's personality cult [1857 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 05:15186235
5"He insults Turkishness.Let's hire an underage murderer to kill him!" [537 words]IanusJun 16, 2011 17:00186235
11Turkey the land of delusions part deux [1059 words]dhimmi no moreJun 17, 2011 07:21186235
5Turkey - the land of paranoia (Armenian separatism without Armenians and Jewish land grab in Turkey without Jews) [767 words]IanusJun 17, 2011 15:59186235
2What is true of Turkey is true to all Islamic countries and societies [276 words]PrashantJun 17, 2011 18:04186235
3The wikileak and Turkey is indeed the land of delusions [62 words]dhimmi no moreJun 19, 2011 18:21186235
199 new names for Islam [154 words]IanusJun 20, 2011 07:58186235

Comment on this item

Mark my comment as a response to Confession of the criminal is not needed to establish the authorship of a crime by Ianus

Email me if someone replies to my comment

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

See recent outstanding comments.

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List
eXTReMe Tracker

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2020 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)