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Freedom of speech in Turkey would mean the end of Kemal's personality cult

Reader comment on item: Turkey's Last Free Election
in response to reader comment: Turkey the land of delusions

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jun 15, 2011 at 05:15

John from Turkey (?;),

Can you imagine that as a nationalist Turk you are the most unlikely person to teach me or anyone else for that matter anything about Turkey's history or your bloodthirsty superman? No, I doubt you can! If you could, you would rather refrain from exposing your ignorance on the subject.First "Time" (not "Times"!) is a contemporary source and its reliabilty is confirmed by other contemporary sources ,which you have no clue about, and its rich and realistic details.

Now there is an obvious contrast between the contemporary sources and posterior artificial Turkish hagiography a good illustration of which is your own post. Do you know any historian (except yourself and your Turkish ilk) who , having a source written by an eyewitness and published by a respectable newspaper during or soon after the events and one written decades afterwards in a country with no freedom of speech and widely terrorized by an antiquated and absurd law, will choose the latter as more reliable and realistic than the former?

Speaking of events of 1926 you constantly refer to your bloodthirsty dicator as "Ataturk".It's a Pavolovian reflex,I understand.(You know the story of the dog , food and a red light switched on and off by a Russian doctor, don't you?It's a nice parable for Turkey.) Now imagine that your holy dictator and war criminal assumed this mythical name only in 1934 which means in 1926 he was still only Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha.In other words you have no clue of chronology and indulge in anachronisms which is all Turks' Pavolvian reflex, isn't it ? (No irony included)

You tell me also that :

"Ataturk may have been many things but "dictator" was not one of them. Dictators throughout the history, do not form (or at least try to form) a democracy."

Kemal's militarist regime was never intended to be a democracy and in fact has never been and will never be one.Have you ever heard about a "one-party democracy/republic"?It is what Kemal formed and happily consolidated sending the other party onto the gibbet after a mock trial. Or perhaps you will argue that the 1926 trial against the opposition leaders was "fair and honest" and the defendants had a chance against the absolute militarist dictator who from the very beginning wanted their death because they as the opposition party publically exposed all Kemal's failures,blunders and incompetences? They told him in the face that he could win a war but had miserably failed to rule a civil society.He had no idea about economy,fiscal policy etc. etc. There were deficits of everything and everybody in secret blamed Kemal.The opposition dared blame him loudly! In the Ottoman spirit Kemal , who as a true Ottoman Turk was extremely revengeful and fearful, answered with a show trial and public hangings of his closest collaborators and former superiors. But he used terror not only to get rid of the perilous opponents but also to deflect the attention of the public from the internal problems which his incompetent rule had aggravated.

You assert that :

"Quoting from Times as a source is wrong in the first place. Times is a magazine composed of writers who have their "opinions" on certain matters heard/read world wide. They do not provide information neutrally nor do they report facts as they are. They simply publish their opinions."

My impression is that you have never read anything from the newspaper.If you read it, you'd see how impotent and helpless your point is.The paper is a thesaurus of thousands of rare details and forgotten facts which you try to represent as "opinions" simply because you are both unaware of them and - what is worse and so typical of all Turks- don't even want to learn them!

What you write is self-referential . You have got no valid contrasting sources at all,no facts and details worth the name as what you say I have seen ad nauseam come from the extremly politicized Turkish textbooks that have been repeating by rote the same rubbish,lies and bubbles about Kemal the Holy for decades and which is being recycled on every forum attended by Turks.

To sum up , my conclusion is that it is you, not "Time" , that publish your opinions without ever caring about sources and history. You take your anachronistic pious wishes of a Turkish jingoist for reality.But I can tell you your opinions are not only false. It's another Turkish Pavlovian reflex.You can't stand the truth.You have to whitewash your worshipped bloodhound and notorious drunkard, you master of anachronisms, or else your artificial Turkish identity crumbles and you stand there as nobody which essentially every Turk is -an artificial nation without identity and culture, with disgusting historical record of barbarism torn between Moslem obscurantism and dismal Kemalist militarism with hypertrophied superego typical of a janissary child.

Then you say :

"That being said, the people that were hung at the time were accused of "attempting to assisinate the president" or "related to this attempt" . And at the time Ataturk was the president. Even today such an attempt is punishable by death in most of the "modern" countries.<

Outside Oriental despotisms like Ataturkistan being "accused" is not the same as being "guilty" and maybe you have heard of the presumption of innocence ? No? Anyway, no valid proof was produced at the trial against the accused nor any fair defence was assured them. So the whole trial was a typical Ottoman legal farce where the same agent was the accuser,the jugde and the executioner - i.e. our dear Ghazi who rejoiced greatly after "the 17 were jerked into eternity".This is how Turkish "justice" has always worked.It's just another hand of the Oriental political octopus and has nothing to do with European justice or decency. There are interesting reports how Kemal frolicked and cheered and drank more and more while the 17 corpses were swinging on the gibbet.So let's leave that Kemalist parody of law and justice to the lovers of Aristophanes.

You say further :

>I agree with your comments on freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is a "must have" for a democracy. People should have the right to speak their mind and should not be prosecuted for it.<

Interesting. If you agree on that, then you agree that Turkey is not a democracy.Thanks! ;)

>However, freedom of speech do not grant people the right to attack a great leader.<

Yes, it does! If it doesn't do that,then this is just a parody of freedom of speech.And incidentally, the difference between a great leader and a dictator is that only the latter needs special laws and terror even after his death to preserve his cult.

> Even though, I support Ataturk and his ideals, I agree with you; criticizing him should not be punishable by law.<

You don't even realize what you agree with!The moment criticizing Kemal is not punishable by law his mad personality cult will be exposed and dismantled,his heinous crimes and lies will be denounced,his absurd and infantile views on history and language will be ridiculed in the shadow of his statues and after some time his statues and portraits will be dispatched to the nearest sewage disposal plants and numerous garbage heaps for which Turkey is also quite famous. The moment critizing Kemal is not punishable by law Kemalism is gone for ever in Turkey. It is only with terror and threats that this anachronistic phantom can reign and rule Turkey.Therefore law 5816 will never be abolished just as his ex-wife's memoirs will never be published or at least not without previously suppressing a large proportion of them.

Nothing scares Turkey and Turks more than the truth.And this is demonstrated by the case of their biggest lie- Kemal. Lies like that of Kemal or Mahomet badly need special laws, terror,imprisonment, intimidation and death to continue unexposed and unaffected by reality to rule the hearts and minds of such nations as the Turks and the Arabs.

>Anyway, of all the good Ataturk has done to my country, I want people to show respect. <

"Respect"? For whom? Kemal was one of the biggest liars,war criminals and mass murderers history has ever recorded. He lied to Lenin to get his gold and guns against the Entente.When he had both he betrayed Lenin.He lied to the Kurds to get their support for his jihad against the Entente in 1919-1922 and the Kurds paid for their credulity and folly with their own blood and were denied even the very name "Kurd" by their ghazi =Allah's warrior, whom they had once saved -to name just two examples of Kemal's perfidy.

And I assert that he is much worse than his contemporary butchers and liars like Hitler or Stalin because the crimes and lies of them have been exposed and duly denounced.The crimes and lies of your deified tyrant have never been even mentioned,let alone exposed and condemned ! And his hands are stained with a sea of blood of some 2 mln Christians - Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians and innumerable Kurds and others.Cruelty and contempt for human life,dignity and law paved the way to his power and glory. Quite literally, he marched to power on a mountain of human corpses he and his hangmen had slaughtered,burnt alive,disfigured in Pontus,Armenia,Ionia,Cilicia,Thrace...But instead of exposing all that evil, even hinting at it is illegal in Turkey. But why do I say "in Turkey"?The Turkish barbarians have even embarked upon a global witch-hunt of those who think that freedom of speech is more important than the happiness of being a Turk and Kemal's hagiographer !

In short,Kemal was an evil mass murderer and consummate liar.His pseudo-reforms can't change anything about this deeper issue as his wild historical fairy tales and distortions can't change history.They were intended first to found his own personality cult and to deflect people's attention from other dark aspects of his career.When one sees a statue, a portrait and a quote of Kemal everywhere in Turkey, one realizes he has succeeded in establishing his personality cult on a par with Mahomet.But like all tyranical rulers his personality cult stands and falls with terror against those who think otherwise.

And now you ,Turk, are so insolent as to tell me to repect this evil dictator beacuse you do ? Do you think it's a sufficient reason to respect evil? Can I be as corrupt and wicked as you are with your grotesque freezing on each November, 10th at 9.05 am to commemorate one of the worst criminals and mass murderers of the past century who ,tragicomically,died a drunkard's infamous death- liver cirrhosis ? Like master like servant ! But as far as I am concerned for such scoundrels as Kemal I have a different set of feelings and reactions worth a civilized human being,not a slave-minded Turk who worships "heroes" in his own image. All things considered that one scoundrel and mass murderer worshipped by the Turk is called Mahomet and the other Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha nicknamed Ataturk doesn't matter so much.They both gratify a definite dysfunctional personality type I can't stand and that's what does matter.


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Reader comments (94) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Islam is the religion of the Arabs only [74 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
edmond michaelsDec 22, 2015 00:54227212
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2Regular elections? [80 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 11:50186274
2A democracy is a step in the right direction but not enough. [222 words]PrashantJun 21, 2011 00:11186274
5ME expert... [74 words]aozturkJun 13, 2011 10:04186265
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9Welcome to Turkey ? [723 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 18:16186264
2Why not look at the mirror [51 words]BazoonahJun 16, 2011 13:54186264
4Not a little story at all ! [282 words]IanusJun 18, 2011 04:26186264
2Armenian genocide [35 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 11:59186264
1an Addon [181 words]BazoonahJun 20, 2011 04:17186264
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1the freedom to leave islam [82 words]MikeJun 15, 2011 04:09186262
5Imam Edrogan's party [194 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 18:45186262
7Turkey is a 99,8% Islamic monoculture.Let's face it at last ! [305 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 20:01186262
3Islamic tolerance and christian love. [82 words]Naushad OmarJun 18, 2011 12:12186262
6What is really a Genocide as per UN and the crimes of Turkey and its bloody past [170 words]dhimmi no moreJun 18, 2011 16:38186262
5Do kafirs have a right to self-defence against Moslem aggression ? [552 words]IanusJun 19, 2011 18:51186262
3Another victim Arabian imperialism and of Islam [553 words]dhimmi no moreJun 20, 2011 07:25186262
110% of the middle east is still Christian [126 words]PrashantJun 20, 2011 23:53186262
1Christian conversion in midlle east was incremental and slow. [118 words]Naushad OmarJun 22, 2011 12:49186262
2al-wali wa al-mawali and what a disgrace [76 words]dhimmi no moreJun 22, 2011 19:05186262
No blame [56 words]sephardiJun 24, 2011 19:19186262
1Islam, the beautiful religion [135 words]Naushad OmarJun 25, 2011 14:38186262
2Muslims killed 90 M hindus? True or false. [682 words]Naushad OmarJun 25, 2011 15:16186262
3Monotheism is a "much ado about nothing" [526 words]PrashantJun 26, 2011 00:43186262
2Another Turkish propagandist [194 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 05:31186262
2el-komidyya el-islamiyya goes on and on [679 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 06:49186262
1el-komidyya el-islamiyya goes on and on revisited [226 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2011 08:17186262
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1Reponse to dhimmi no more [131 words]sephardiJun 26, 2011 22:00186262
2Hatred and prejudice only lead to bitterness and blindness [389 words]MehmetJun 27, 2011 21:03186262
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You don't have any government documentation that proves Turks did genocide [217 words]sephardiJun 29, 2011 14:01186262
2we are all Armenians and get used to it [774 words]dhimmi no moreJun 29, 2011 18:00186262
6we are all Armenians and get used to it and the Armenian Genoicde and those that deny it and shame on them [732 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2011 05:57186262
You don't even know what makes something official for a government [168 words]sephardiJul 1, 2011 18:45186262
5Confession of the criminal is not needed to establish the authorship of a crime [1789 words]IanusJul 2, 2011 11:01186262
1Armenian Genocide does not exist [243 words]sephardiJul 2, 2011 19:54186262
2Poor Turks! They are so allergic to the truth. [453 words]IanusJul 5, 2011 02:20186262
3Our dear Sephardi has nothing to say and shame on anyone who denies the Armenian Genocide [725 words]dhimmi no moreJul 5, 2011 08:04186262
5Jalal ad-Din Rumi on Turks [1116 words]IanusJul 6, 2011 14:44186262
Turks won't accept imaginary Armenian Genocide [139 words]sephardiJul 6, 2011 22:22186262
2Republic Of Turkey, MInistry Of Foreign Affairs: The Armenian Allegation Of Genocide The Issue And The Facts [3684 words]sephardiJul 7, 2011 23:31186262
2Our dear Sephardi is unable to refute the legal case against Turkey in regard to the Armenian Genocide. Shame on Turkey [809 words]dhimmi no moreJul 8, 2011 06:55186262
2Our dear Sephardi the Turkish Propagandist tells us that he has government documents! Where are they? Propaganda does not count [277 words]dhimmi no moreJul 9, 2011 06:04186262
Sephrdi - A Typical Genocide Denier [51 words]Young MCJul 10, 2011 19:23186262
1The Armenian Genocide and those that deny it! Shame on them! [694 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2011 07:16186262
5The barbarian and the civilized [188 words]dhimmi no moreJul 20, 2011 13:43186262
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Do you have any proof to support your claims? [26 words]AdilOct 20, 2014 14:38186262
4The Hindu Genocide revisited [514 words]dhimmi no moreOct 22, 2014 17:14186262
Real proof [55 words]AdilOct 25, 2014 15:12186262
And what about the Christian Imperialism in India [99 words]AdilOct 26, 2014 17:40186262
1Our dear Adil admits that millions of Hindus were murdered by the Muslim invaders of India! [476 words]dhimmi no moreOct 28, 2014 07:54186262
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1It is a spectrum Adil [159 words]PrashantOct 28, 2014 17:41186262
2My evidence that Islam is the religion of the Arabs only? For the nth time Q14:4 and 10:47 and 13:8 and 35:24 and 28:75 [482 words]dhimmi no moreOct 29, 2014 07:25186262
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That is what I find bad.......... [28 words]AdilOct 31, 2014 12:22186262
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3The Hindu Genocide revisited again [52 words]dhimmi no moreNov 2, 2014 08:35186262
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w/response from Daniel Pipes
kzndrJun 12, 2011 22:38186257
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This is a wrongheaded analysis [117 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Jeff H.Jun 12, 2011 14:02186235
11When was the first "fair and free election" in Turkey,I wonder ? [928 words]IanusJun 13, 2011 17:03186235
17Turkey the land of delusions [104 words]dhimmi no moreJun 14, 2011 06:57186235
1You seem to know what you are talking about but you dont have a clue actually [418 words]JohnJun 14, 2011 10:39186235
5Freedom of speech in Turkey would mean the end of Kemal's personality cult [1857 words]IanusJun 15, 2011 05:15186235
5"He insults Turkishness.Let's hire an underage murderer to kill him!" [537 words]IanusJun 16, 2011 17:00186235
11Turkey the land of delusions part deux [1059 words]dhimmi no moreJun 17, 2011 07:21186235
5Turkey - the land of paranoia (Armenian separatism without Armenians and Jewish land grab in Turkey without Jews) [767 words]IanusJun 17, 2011 15:59186235
2What is true of Turkey is true to all Islamic countries and societies [276 words]PrashantJun 17, 2011 18:04186235
3The wikileak and Turkey is indeed the land of delusions [62 words]dhimmi no moreJun 19, 2011 18:21186235
199 new names for Islam [154 words]IanusJun 20, 2011 07:58186235

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