Shocks me how people are eager to misrepresent Dr. Pipes words.
Reader comment on item: Bagels in Dubai?
in response to reader comment: Bagels are no longer Jewish

Submitted by Ynnatchkah (United States), Sep 18, 2008 at 03:06

Dear John, with all due respect, is English your mother tongue- b/c you lacked in interpretation and logical path, when criticizing Dr. Pipes. Even a foreigner like me sees this.English is not my mother tongue, yet it was clear to me Dr. Pipes' message.

Sir Pipes said:

"…Bagels are, of course, the Jewish ethnic food that legend holds goes back to 1683 and the defeat of the Turkish army at Vienna."…

So you said to Dr. Pipes:

"…impossible to buy them without ham, bacon, or some pork product. Jewish? I don't think so. Get with the 21st century, Dan. The younger generation is often surprised to learn that bagels were once considered Jewish. They're as American as apple pie now"…

This phrase of Dr. Pipes teaches us about the origin of bagels. It is undeniable that its origin is tied to the Jewish culture as a mirror of this culture's expression. Bagels may had be taken from the Jewish culture and have had its expression in several other culture ones, after all, however, it does detaches it out from its intrinsic characteristic, which is the fact that its origin is Jewish. (So how Islam, a culture that portraits Jews and Pigs and Monkeys) and a country like Dubai that hates Israel and Jews, have a food with Jewish origin in its airplane? That's the point.

Yet, the fact that it is served with Bacon, does not make it less Jewish, for what many Jews eat Bacon- so I do not see much logical path in that. Actually, even in Israel, there is a trend that many years ago started defending that porks created under their described circumstances, are as clean as other meat. Can you get the relativism?

So the new generation is surprised to learn it is Jewish? Well, the concept of "new generation" is relative and temporal, and youngsters are surprised by many topics, not this one only. the educational level around the world has been downgraded to deplorable levels, especially in history teaching -when it was taken over by incompetents, parasites, liars, Islamists and fools.

Finally, if Bagels are American as apple pie now, AFA I know, Jews started coming to this country in the final 16^th to 17^th century, so if Bagels are Americans and the American culture always carried in its realm Jewish characteristics, the chance to have Bagels linked back to Jewish ness is evident, just taking in consideration your logical path.

Shocks me how people misrepresent Dr. Pipes words, sometimes to criticize him as a mirror of their Islamism and liberal leftist condition . ..I do not know who you are- John, but even if you do not fulfill neither of the above characteristics, I ‘understand' that it feels "good" to counter point an intellectual giant like Dr. Pipes, especially when YOU think you've enough background to carry this power.

With-Regards from South America in the US,

Good Day Sir.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened for relevance, substance, and tone, and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome, but comments are rejected if scurrilous, off-topic, vulgar, ad hominem, or otherwise viewed as inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the Guidelines for Comments. For informational purposes, we identify countries from which comments are sent.