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Why Muslims Cannot Depend on Reasoned Arguments?

Reader comment on item: "How Dare You Defame Islam"
in response to reader comment: distorted freedom, rationality, humanism

Submitted by Ico Ucé (United States), Jun 14, 2008 at 19:22

It is extremely telling that the only responders I see quoting the Koran or other Muslim holy books, in this or in any other forum on the subject which I have visited, are non-Muslims. I have yet to encounter a Muslim who will engage in theological debate on the issues we Westerners "misunderstand" or "misinterpret" about Islam.

Commentator 4 Largely posted several Koranic quotes reproduced below for your convenience. Not one commentator identifying themselves as Muslim has responded on the theological merits of the criticism. It appears to me that the Muslim criticism that non-Muslims simply have an insufficient theological understanding of Islam is a case of the kettle calling the pot black.

As is the case with all religions containing dogma objectionable to modern moral and political sensitivities - including Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism - moderates in these religions simply ignore or are ignorant of, the objectionable nature of some edicts in their religious tradition. Only a psychopathic Christian would judge it moral to kill his son for disobedience, when he would be merely following God's word as recorded in the Bible (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).

Likewise, if a Muslim deems it correct to kill a former coreligionist for the crime of changing their mind, and consequently, their religious affiliation, then they should not be surprised if the are called what they are "psychopaths". No amount of religious sanction makes immorality moral; more than once Muhammad has a rival assassinated - including for the crime of insulting him - that is not the actions of a moral man, but the actions of a politician who believes in realpolitik and has no moral compulsions about furthering his agenda by whatever means - the ends justify the mean kind of guy, certainly no pillar of morality, godly or otherwise.

Now, for the Muslims amongst you, you can choose to have a reasoned debate about whatever you may disagree with - citing sources and quotes - or you can call me names or seek to harm me in some way and thus prove my point - it's up to you. Quran 4:89: "They (infidels) desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper." Quran 8:12: "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers;" Quran 2:191: "... kill the disbelievers wherever we find them …" Quran 8:7: "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'" Quran 47:4: "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers" and, after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." Quran 9:5: "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." Quran 8:12: "Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: 'I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.'"


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Reader comments (58) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Islamic Intolerance [58 words]zacJan 2, 2012 02:47192202
the need for civilisation [48 words]SunnyD muslimNov 8, 2011 13:07190743
Intolerance & Islam [181 words]Dr. O. P. SudraniaFeb 15, 2011 23:26182730
1Islam [127 words]PaladinJan 27, 2011 08:30182076
3Neville Chamberlain Lives [99 words]Alan LiebowitzSep 9, 2010 03:31177932
1Turn the light out when you leave [89 words]Green man from MarsJul 12, 2010 16:11175469
2irony that this was written in 1991, only two years later we suffered mass murder in the name of islam on Sept 11 [107 words]Phil GreendFeb 6, 2010 23:08168573
Obama and Islam [263 words]Janusz KowalikFeb 25, 2008 14:23121044
great artical [21 words]bujinJan 23, 2009 14:10121044
3In Islam, criticism is a one-way street [336 words]StillfreeSep 16, 2007 12:11108986
Think Before You Speak [224 words]nadeemSep 9, 2007 16:53108379
1We Do Not Fear [101 words]Mhu CaoJan 9, 2010 23:47108379
4islam means peace [163 words]kafurMar 29, 2010 13:38108379
you should learn about the islam [79 words]ayubFeb 25, 2006 09:3337982
4To Ayub - You Are Absolutely Right [195 words]Timothy M BurtonMar 9, 2006 14:1237982
4Ayub:Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam? [215 words]PriscillaApr 19, 2006 22:2137982
misguided individuals [62 words]tanweerhussainJun 25, 2006 08:2237982
Priscilla you need to read more... [150 words]Jeffrey the politicianJun 26, 2006 15:0937982
1Tanweer Hussain the muslim logic! [101 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2006 21:2337982
1Islam [8 words]matlub hussainMar 15, 2007 15:5637982
Learn before you speak [46 words]RizMar 18, 2007 15:3037982
2the truth [58 words]ThePatriotApr 20, 2007 09:2037982
1This is a religion of peace? [200 words]Largely4Jan 18, 2008 07:0037982
1Watch what Islam does, not what it says [251 words]Largely4Jan 19, 2008 08:1337982
Is Terrorism a Muslim monopoly [50 words]truthJun 25, 2008 08:1637982
2Only Muslim shills compare Islam's barbarity to other religions [1360 words]onlytruthJun 25, 2008 18:3737982
Did you watch the talk my Brother? [63 words]TruthJun 26, 2008 04:5737982
1Muslims never respond to clear evidence that Islam is aggressive and violent [139 words]onlytruthJun 26, 2008 20:4837982
1No point in arguing with corrupt hearts [150 words]TruthJun 27, 2008 19:3837982
1Muslims will ALWAYS deny their history [567 words]onlytruthJun 30, 2008 09:0537982
1ISLAM [337 words]PREMSep 1, 2008 08:2437982
Dafaming Islam [137 words]Janusz KowalikJan 24, 2009 00:2337982
response to 'dhimmi no more' [308 words]Another curious personMar 6, 2009 17:2637982
1Tablighees and spreading Islam [438 words]dhimmi no moreMar 8, 2009 08:4637982
What kind of god that submits to a religion? [9 words]donieJan 3, 2010 06:2637982
we should live in peace and harmony [151 words]kafurApr 2, 2010 06:3237982
Islam is peace [187 words]kafurApr 2, 2010 08:5037982
dhimmi no more [150 words]kafurApr 4, 2010 07:4737982
no god but god ? [15 words]kafurJun 8, 2010 14:3737982
indiscriminate killing of men and women and even infants [533 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Ali al-YunaniMay 25, 2017 18:2937982
Militant Islam [45 words]Alan L. LiebowitzJun 25, 2004 06:2615794
A religion of peace? [225 words]Largely4Jan 18, 2008 07:1315794
You've exposed the truth [435 words]JAYAGOPALAug 27, 2003 12:1910857
It is only after studying it, you know the truth [72 words]Truth beToldJan 18, 2003 12:385843
1It is important to study the religion before commenting on it [108 words]BettyOct 27, 2002 01:373327
Muslims [239 words]Pusyamitra SungaApr 5, 2006 07:223327
Betty comments [126 words]Mary KhalilAug 11, 2006 18:073327
islam [60 words]danteSep 30, 2006 02:163327
1Islam is a religion of slavery [157 words]WarrenApr 21, 2007 18:283327
1This all would be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic [131 words]Seamus MacNemiJul 3, 2007 23:543327
1distorted freedom, rationality, humanism [295 words]FaisalApr 22, 2008 07:393327
Why Muslims Cannot Depend on Reasoned Arguments? [546 words]Ico UcéJun 14, 2008 19:223327
Have you ever read Quran and Hadith Mr.Faisal? [252 words]premSep 1, 2008 09:403327
1Brother Prem [458 words]mayeedApr 7, 2009 11:053327
violence in Islam [424 words]kafurApr 5, 2010 09:403327
Rubbish [95 words]bulNov 19, 2010 21:403327
Correctly stated [50 words]lukeNov 19, 2010 21:463327
1Muslim who blaspheme against Judaism [123 words]Samir S. HalabiApr 21, 2012 04:443327

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Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

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