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Reader comment on item: Muslims in the West: Can Conflict Be Averted?
in response to reader comment: Messenger ,Prophet, and Imam

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 3, 2006 at 07:32

I have no idea what you are talking about here. But if you wish to know my understanding based on reading a dictionary, that you do not seem to do, of the words Rasul/Nabi/Sa'ee read the following.

Now let us talk about some basics: Rasul; the root of the word is RSL which means to correspond, carry on a correspondance, to contact, get in touch, exchange letters and this is from Lisan al-'Arab the Arabic dictionary par excellence. Notice the secular meaning of the word here.

But this is not what really happened: The word Rasul appears very early in the extant Arabic sources and for sure we know what it means (eg: Khalifat Allah and Khalifat Rasul Allah that apeear early on on coins and notice that such title does not say: Nabiyoo Allah or the Nabi of Allah, and for any reader who is interested in what the words Khalifa and rasul mean here please see an infidel source and that is Patricia Crone: "God's Caliph"). The word took on a different meaning where the prophet is the messenger and the messenger is the prophet, and for all intents and purposes the nabi becomes the rasul and the rasul is the nabi. You must pardon me but your first flaw is that tyou seem to believe that the Arabic language was fully fledged in 632 CE as we are told by the tradition and for this see below. Your second flaw is that you do not seem to be aware of the saying: "al-tafseer lel sahaba wa al-ta'weel lel 'Ulama."

Now enter the word: prophetes (Greek) which means: "one who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpretor through whom the will of a god is expressed" (well Muhammad claimed he did as he was rasul Allah) AKA as rasul and see the above definition. It can also mean: "soothsayer or predictor" (and Muhammad denied this) So was Muhammad a soothsayer or predictor? . And last it could mean: "The chief spokesperson of a cause or a movement" (see Webster's) and he sure was.

As I mentioned before: The word sa'ee is very much the secular word that would describe a messenger.

So a Rasul = A Nabi and Muhammad is: 1. al-Nabi Muhammad. 2. Muahmmad rasul Allah. 3. al-Nabi Muhammad rasul Allah (see Hoyland).

Now, if the question is: Is the Qur'an a dictionary of the Arabic language?

The answer is: No it is not. The Qur'an claims to be written in 'Arabi Faheeh, but it does not claim that it is a Ma'jam (dictionary). As a matter of fact the Qur'an is full of strange non Arabic words eg; my favorite is kalala, and clearly non Arabic words eg: Tur which is Syriac, and very poor grammar at times and the example here is: "ina hadhan la sahiran." And to add insult to injury it does not tell us very much about the words that were introduced into Arabic language in the 3rd century by the likes of Hunein ibn Ishaq (who was a Christian....gasp!!!) based on Sibawayhe's Fi'l and eg: balgham, tuhal and safra. These words would have made no sense to Muhammad and his generation but you will find them in Lisan al-'Arab.

If you want to know Arabic vocabulary, classical Arabic that is, you must consult Lisan al-'Arab, and you need to do lots of reading about the Muslim masora.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (111) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Jamal Idrissi - Arab racist charged for hate crime against blacks in NYC [103 words]ClarisaApr 18, 2022 17:08279890
muslims-in-the-west: A great article and an eye opener [10 words]SHILOH PURIFOYSep 30, 2016 12:50233088
1I am a Assimilated Muslim [426 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Imran1977Sep 8, 2015 16:48224953
Well done Mr. Pipes - but are Iranians equal to Muslim? [140 words]Pirouz KasMay 29, 2015 12:20223590
Removal of two noble verses from sura -9 (128 & 129) [35 words]NihmathullahOct 13, 2014 10:49218677
2Huge underestimate of Islamic population in Europe [49 words]HugoSep 30, 2014 05:50218326
8I do not believe they can assimilate [250 words]chris heathNov 26, 2013 17:41211829
8When inaction rules [42 words]Michael KerjmanJul 12, 2012 22:47197206
2Excellent Commentary [51 words]GWKJan 27, 2013 08:56197206
1Not each muslims are terorists [36 words]Amar AldebJan 19, 2012 13:14192694
ISIS is okay then. [26 words]Hugo LindumOct 1, 2014 18:26192694
12We will never get along [76 words]tikitakiMay 26, 2011 08:38185597
12islamists don't want peace, they want islam to be the one religion and everyone else dead ! [116 words]Phil GreendJun 29, 2009 14:54158210
6Feel tired of Islam [18 words]JeffryAug 3, 2011 23:18158210
1Don't feel tired. Get to action [116 words]PrashantOct 2, 2016 17:42158210
Quite good [37 words]MiriamMar 19, 2008 06:08122997
1incorrect... [94 words]donvanJan 14, 2010 17:51122997
38The death of Rashad Khalifa mathematicaly coded [299 words]PierreMar 31, 2007 19:0088333
1For our dear Pierre and his flawed logic and poor Muslim education [13 words]dhimmi no moreApr 11, 2007 13:5388333
1Praise God! What a sign! [52 words]SaudAug 23, 2007 01:4788333
3I just happened to be reading the comments here and... [53 words]Lover of God AloneAug 23, 2007 12:2688333
Rashad Khalifa [11 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
MazharSep 10, 2007 16:0488333
3Incredible! [24 words]illmanDec 5, 2007 19:4988333
The gematric value of R-K is not correct [19 words]BachirJul 5, 2008 18:1288333
4Yes the gematrical value of Rashad Khalifa is 1230 [374 words]PierreJul 8, 2008 16:1988333
6How would you reply to Rashad Khalifa's number 19 theory, where he removed 2 Noble Verses from the Noble Quran because their references were not multiples of the number 19? [1098 words]salinaSep 17, 2008 03:4788333
39:128-129 Truth versus falsehood [2095 words]PierreSep 20, 2008 12:1688333
The Rashad Khalifa Cult Exposed: [1017 words]salinaSep 21, 2008 14:0488333
29:128-129: the decision on 31/01/2009 on 19.org Forum [130 words]PierreSep 22, 2008 13:0388333
simple answer Pierre [1951 words]SALINASep 23, 2008 03:3088333
3Please review the article 361 on islamrevolution.org [54 words]PierreFeb 27, 2009 12:0888333
reply to Pierre [1248 words]salinaFeb 28, 2009 01:4588333
4I,m speechless,very impressive.God has provided us with great miracles through Mr,Rashad Khalifa pbuh. [51 words]ASAD ANDY MALIKMar 3, 2009 20:1788333
8Sur quoi pointe la date décès de Rashad Khalifa [368 words]AbderrahimApr 24, 2010 21:1688333
4Dear Peirre [70 words]AnoushJun 30, 2010 01:2188333
Even Birth of Dr.Rashad Khalifa is coded with 19 [57 words]ShamMar 8, 2012 15:3588333
2Go brother Pierre! [26 words]OsmanJul 12, 2012 06:0988333
All Praises are to God [114 words]Anna_Aisha (Thailand)Aug 10, 2012 19:2288333
Response to the death of rashad khalifa [44 words]NannyAug 16, 2012 15:1888333
I feel like [11 words]Fahmi N.Apr 1, 2014 20:3588333
nonsense [20 words]faresDec 18, 2014 07:2488333
The Verses with the expression WAHDAHOU [75 words]BouqdibNov 26, 2015 18:3588333
Quran [43 words]jafarlaAug 13, 2016 05:3188333
2Claim of Prophethood by Rashad Khalifa [48 words]RizalJul 1, 2006 13:4348668
For: Rizal: "there is a difference between a messenger and a prophet" [154 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2006 18:2148668
Messenger ,Prophet, and Imam [171 words]HarrakJul 2, 2006 00:4048668
Claim Of Prophethood by Rashad Khalifa [397 words]RizalJul 2, 2006 00:5748668
Is the Qur'an a dictionary? I do not think so! [47 words]dhimmi no moreJul 3, 2006 06:1548668
You missed "my encyclopaedia"? Oh yeah? [567 words]dhimmi no moreJul 3, 2006 07:3248668
Claim Of Prophethood by Rashad Khalifa [117 words]RizalJul 4, 2006 00:3548668
For Rizil: Of Anbia (and not al-nabiyyin) and al-rasul [207 words]dhimmi no moreJul 4, 2006 18:0948668
2Rashad Khalifa is a fraudulent [277 words]ramsesyOct 2, 2006 21:1648668
For ramsesey and his misdirected diatribes! [137 words]dhimmi no moreOct 9, 2006 07:4148668
'Seeking Qur'anic Resonse' [65 words]Hekmatullah NafeJan 12, 2007 18:3248668
1To dhimmi no more :Reveal your identity first in order to have crediblity and relevence [1335 words]ramsesy99Jan 16, 2007 14:5448668
Response to Hekmatullah Nafe [460 words]ramsesy99Jan 16, 2007 15:4748668
For ramsesy99 and more diatribes and no substance! [86 words]dhimmi no moreJan 17, 2007 08:0348668
For ramsesy9 and more diatribes and no substance part trois! [593 words]dhimmi no moreJan 18, 2007 07:4548668
...signs of ingnorance and incompetence, Dhimmi no more! [338 words]ramsesy99Jan 18, 2007 11:4148668
you are incapable of learning Dnimmi no more [277 words]ramsesy99Jan 18, 2007 16:4548668
For Ramsesy and Muslim meltdown part deux! [108 words]dhimmi no moreJan 19, 2007 07:1148668
3Dhimmi status.. [186 words]donvanJan 19, 2007 11:1848668
Keep your grudges for yourself. [5 words]ramsesy99Jan 19, 2007 19:1848668
Wrong information [254 words]ramsesy99Jan 19, 2007 21:1448668
Fior Ramses9 [200 words]dhimmi no moreJan 20, 2007 15:5348668
For ramses99 [350 words]dhimmi no moreJan 20, 2007 16:3648668
so you belong to the ...usurers of the world! [170 words]ramsesy99Jan 21, 2007 11:3448668
For Ramses99 and the history that they do not teach you in Egypt! [751 words]dhimmi no moreJan 21, 2007 16:5548668
Dhimmi no more [174 words]ramsesy99Jan 21, 2007 17:2548668
clairification... [143 words]donvanJan 21, 2007 20:5148668
1For ramsesy and Islamophobia really? [259 words]dhimmi no moreJan 22, 2007 07:2248668
Donvan ... [352 words]ramsesy99Jan 22, 2007 09:0548668
Dhimmi no more the anti-Arab of the new Orientalists! [1907 words]ramsesy99Jan 22, 2007 14:5348668
dhimmi who forgot his ...roots... [432 words]ramsesy99Jan 22, 2007 18:0548668
to muslim egyptian proud of his arabic heritage [41 words]ASJan 23, 2007 01:1548668
to Dhimmi no more on Farsi and Arabic [179 words]ASJan 23, 2007 01:2748668
1Tolerance [165 words]donvanJan 23, 2007 09:4048668
For ramses99 and his diatribes [83 words]dhimmi no moreJan 23, 2007 17:1348668
For ramses99 and justifying the absurd! [153 words]dhimmi no moreJan 23, 2007 17:2748668
For AS and Farsi [101 words]dhimmi no moreJan 23, 2007 18:0148668
For Ramses99 and roots! [110 words]dhimmi no moreJan 24, 2007 07:3448668
... dhimmi and his likes [385 words]ramses99Jan 24, 2007 11:3748668
Islam was the only religion liberated human beings from slavery [287 words]ramsesy99Jan 24, 2007 17:5448668
For Ramses99 and the history that they do not teach you in Egypt part deux! [1538 words]dhimmi no moreJan 26, 2007 19:4948668
For Ramses99 Islam tawheed! [126 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2007 07:4148668
for ramses and Iran and islam [236 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2007 07:5748668
For Ramses99 Arabian imperialism and the history that they do not teach you in Egypt part trios! [50 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2007 08:0248668
to the egyptian mathematician! lol [55 words]ASJan 27, 2007 08:1748668
for ramses Islam and slavery! [103 words]dhimmi no moreJan 27, 2007 16:4648668
1For Ramses and joining a cult! And islamophobia? really? [277 words]dhimmi no moreFeb 7, 2007 07:2748668
response to Dr. Mabrouk A. El-Sharkawy, PhD [9 words]sandraAug 11, 2009 19:3748668
Islamophobia is rampant in the Western countries [5 words]M. A. ElsharkawyJan 3, 2010 12:4248668
A great need to respond... [154 words]donvanJan 13, 2010 11:3248668
1Speak the truth pierre [11 words]Apple PieJun 30, 2010 01:0048668
2Hey dhimmi no more.. Guess what [277 words]Apple PieJun 30, 2010 01:1248668
Christians in Egyot? [118 words]grangerFeb 27, 2012 11:2948668
PRODUCE YOUR PROOF BEFORE ALLEGING [64 words]SunilOct 23, 2012 10:0048668
How True & False is the History [174 words]Herry WiyanaAug 21, 2013 07:5548668
Islam need moderation and change in interpretation of Quran [867 words]R K SharmaFeb 18, 2015 00:0448668
Conspiracy Against the Truth [52 words]Shah DanMar 6, 2017 23:3648668
Rashad Khalifa, Messenger of the Covenant [68 words]Halima DAHMANJun 30, 2022 07:4348668
3ISLAM BOOSTERS [292 words]DONVANMay 2, 2006 15:1244752
what REALLY needs to change [373 words]JimMay 18, 2006 02:3244752
What Really Needs To Change [420 words]RizalJul 2, 2006 01:3944752
1Quranic Grammar [127 words]Truth BringerJul 15, 2007 17:2544752
1When will they ever learn? [200 words]Howard E. CookJan 9, 2010 15:3344752
so true [95 words]donvanJan 12, 2010 15:1744752
Yes, Conflict Can Be Averted [281 words]Allison KhanApr 17, 2006 00:2643356
Good summary [45 words]S CarrollJun 11, 2003 16:589507
wake up [3 words]Alexander (not muslim) StrokoschMay 17, 2003 16:329113
1there is truly deceit in Islam against all who are not Islamic [47 words]dawudJun 4, 2009 14:279113

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