OK, I think I get your point :(

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Dec 24, 2015 at 19:04

Hi, Tovey.

Hummingbirds, eh? You said,

The key as it was mentioned before is that we are not done with the Church age, so
Daniel's key to the revelation has not been revealed yet; and cannot be until the Church is r[e]moved. So I cannot support any notion that says we are in any of the times for which the seal has not been broken yet.

Let's see:

Daniel 12:
[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

There's nothing there about the church being removed before the time of the end. You're mixing what Daniel said, with the modern doctrine of "dispensationalism". You continued,

"...the world wars all being typecast as judgments on a non-beleiving world that has treated His people badly, all by judgment of the Jewsih propensity for turning their collective backs on Him as well."

You said two things there: (1) that the world wars were a judgment on the world for mistreating the Jews, and (2) that the the Jews have collectively turned their backs on God.

That you believe #2 is no mystery to most Jews. In fact, it is largely because of this bad attitude that they have seen in Christians for the past 1900 years, that they don't want anything to do with the gospel. I don't agree with you here, as you might have guessed: Many Jews are very much interested in God; and few Jews can escape the fact that God has called them to be His people. Most Christians, however, want nothing to do with Torah, which Jews correctly understand was given to them by God. Why, then, should they want to hear from these people who, in their eyes, have turned their backs on God?

Concerning #1, the greatest mistreatment of the Jews happened after WWI and during WWII; so I find it hard to think of those events as judgment of the Gentiles for mistreating the Jews.

All that said, I can see why you believe what you do; and I wonder why you are even interested in Israel. As far as I'm concerned, Dispensationalism is a doctrine from hell -- but that, of course, is my personal opinion. Some of my friends are Dispensationalists. I love them, but hate their doctrine.

Going further, trying to understand you, you said,

"From this perspective, Daniel is given the outline that leads to t[he] Revelation; and Yeshua will open the scroll after the Church is removed; the covenant prophets interject their details at the appropriate times (Zephaniah is currently between Ch 2 and 3); and the Revelation Ch 4 can happen at any time."

OK, I think I see where you're coming from. From "this perspective" (i. e. Dispensationalism), most of Revelation is irrelevant to believers, namely, Rev. 6-11, which speak of the seals and trumpets; and Rev. 16 & 17, which speak of the vials. I can see why we have so little in common. That's disheartening to me; but life goes on.

God bless and keep you and yours.

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".